Brendan Rodgers

[Matt]

30 minutes ago, StanSP said:

All this chat about the future of our club being at stake is utter shite. 

 

We've been in far worse positions. 

 

I get people want Rodgers out and I do as well, but there's a distinct level of hyperbole going on when comments like that are made. 

Granted but the financial issues don’t add up for me.

 

Theres a lot of questions need answering.

 

If we truly are in a position where we can’t (financially) afford to sack Rodgers we are in trouble.

 

If we are truly in a position where we can’t sign players and back him, we are in trouble.

 

I don’t quite understand how it adds up we’re struggling against FFP, I admit I don’t understand the ins and outs of FFP anyway but on the ‘simple’ face of things, when you see what Everton and Villa are throwing about, Everton have sold Richarlison but what about what’s gone before and since then? Villa sold Grealish but again what about what went before and since?

 

We’ve sold Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez, Maguire, Chilwell, we’ve far outweighed the examples of Everton and Villa have for money coming in and I think we’re miles away from matching them for expenditures, not to mention our European campaigns, higher league positions and FA Cup win (I don’t believe the FA Cup actually wins you much financially but even so it’s more than Everton or Villa).

 

Yes, we’ve spend £100m on the training ground but even then of the top of my head I don’t think it adds up to anything remotely near what the two examples have spent. Everton are building a new stadium.

 

I digress, basically I don’t think the club want Rodgers, equally it’ll pain them to pay him off, I think they want him to walk, I think there’s money there - perhaps not a lot but it is there but they don’t want to give it Rodgers to waste as he’s done through a majority of the signing under his tenure, in doing this the club is being damaged, we’re being left behind, we’re weakening ourselves.

 

It’s either that or the club is in serious trouble.

 

Someone made a point yesterday, if we can’t afford to sack Rodgers, they’ve arguable made him bigger than the club.

 

As I said a month ago, we wrote this season off before it even started.

 

Edited 23 August 2022 by Matt

[StanSP]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Granted but the financial issues don’t add up for me.

 

Theres a lot of questions need answering.

 

If we truly are in a position where we can’t (financially) afford to sack Rodgers we are in trouble.

 

If we are truly in a position where we can’t sign players and back him, we are in trouble.

 

I don’t quite understand how it adds up we’re struggling against FFP, I admit I don’t understand the ins and outs of FFP anyway but on the ‘simple’ face of things, when you see what Everton and Villa are throwing about, Everton have sold Richarlison but what about what’s gone before and since then? Villa sold Grealish but again what about what went before and since?

 

We’ve sold Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez, Maguire, Chilwell, we’ve far outweighed the examples of Everton and Villa have for money coming in and I think we’re miles away from matching them for expenditures, not to mention our European campaigns, higher league positions and FA Cup win (I don’t believe the FA Cup actually wins you much financially but even so it’s more than Everton or Villa).

 

Yes, we’ve spend £100m on the training ground but even then of the top of my head I don’t think it adds up to anything remotely near what the two examples have spent. Everton are building a new stadium.

 

I digress, basically I don’t think the club want Rodgers, equally it’ll pain them to pay him off, I think they want him to walk, I think there’s money there - perhaps not a lot but it is there but they don’t want to give it Rodgers to waste as he’s done through a majority of the signing under his tenure, in doing this the club is being damaged, we’re being left behind, we’re weakening ourselves.

 

It’s either that or the club is in serious trouble.

 

Someone made a point yesterday, if we can’t afford to sack Rodgers, they’ve arguable made him bigger than the club.

 

As I said a month ago, we wrote this season off before it even started.

 

I can only imagine it boils down to the wages issue. Perhaps those clubs make more, so they can afford to pay relatively higher wages to players they buy. Our issue is the wage to turnover (?) ratio being far too high - 105% I think? 

It needs to come down to 90% within 1 year, 80% within 2years and then 70% within 3 years. I may be wrong as I'm going off memory. 

 

I think there's money there - our owners are being shrewd, like they've always been - to ensure the club doesn't go to shit. So in fact quite the opposite of being in trouble. If anything, they're safeguarding and protecting the club financially. Almost like short term pain, long term gain. 

Those clubs - Everton, Villa - are perhaps risking more, I have no idea really without looking into someone else's data or conclusions about how risky they're being or if they can genuinely pay their way with little consequence. Maybe it's to do with how much money their owners pump into the club more freely than ours. 

 

Should we qualify for Europe again, the FFP rules are big - and they're most likely going to clamp down on the smaller clubs as opposed to the likes of Barca, Real, PSG etc. 

 

I don't think they've made Rodgers bigger than the club. That's a bit of conjecture or a bit speculative. 

[The Doctor]

51 minutes ago, StanSP said:

All this chat about the future of our club being at stake is utter shite. 

 

We've been in far worse positions. 

 

I get people want Rodgers out and I do as well, but there's a distinct level of hyperbole going on when comments like that are made. 

Idk, £100m training ground, stadium expansion. We're gambling big on infrastructure that to an extent needs premier league money. Not the same position in terms of sailing close to the edge as in 2002 given the extra money in the game but it's familiar enough to cause worries if we continue to be in relegation danger 

[Dames]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

All this chat about the future of our club being at stake is utter shite. 

 

We've been in far worse positions. 

 

I get people want Rodgers out and I do as well, but there's a distinct level of hyperbole going on when comments like that are made. 

We have been in far worse positions but with the way the finances are in the unlikely event we are relegated we would be in a dire situation that could unravel very quickly if we were to not bounce back. 
 

The way we have started this season and there is still no transfers leads me to believe our financial situation is worse than being let on. 

[foxinsocks]

The most important thing is having the right guy in charge.   Rodgers has shown he is mo leader... just in it for himself. 

The board need to get rid...

Btw. under no circumstance should rodgers sign any players... the next guy will need the money

 

[Blanchflower78]

The manager looks beaten, players stale, board quiet. Noone rallying, no plan, no expectation. Bottom 3 early days and unable to see where first win is coming.

Really looks bleak for us.

[Dahnsouff]

7 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

The most important thing is having the right guy in charge.   Rodgers has shown he is mo leader... just in it for himself. 

The board need to get rid...

Btw. under no circumstance should rodgers sign any players... the next guy will need the money

 

He isn’t in charge, let’s make that crystal clear- he does not run the club, let’s not proliferate this nonsense

[foxinsocks]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

He isn’t in charge, let’s make that crystal clear- he does not run the club, let’s not proliferate this nonsense

He is in charge of a squad costing millions each week

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, foxinsocks said:

He is in charge of a squad costing millions each week

Yes he is, that’s his job, not much else, every squad in this league and maybe even the championship cost millions every week

 

We don’t have to look for shock and awe and hyperbole, there is quite enough of a mess just sticking to cold hard facts.  

[surrifox]

1 hour ago, Thebluefox85 said:

thing is i honestly believe Top and the board think Brendan is a Pep/Klopp standard elite manager, he aint hes far from it how he goes on about young players and he looks for talent but signs Bertrand,vesty and perez. sad thing is he aint going anywhere anytime soon i think its going to take alot for him to be sacked and then the ridiculous contract we put him on! so now hes pretty much impossible to sack because its going to cost so much to get rid of him and i guarantee they dont want to pay him off! 

We put him on big money because there was much talk of him joining Arsenal or Spurs at the time we were playing well and winning regularly . How much truth there was in their purported interest , who knows, but I do recall that we put a big price on him to deter interest .

[foxinsocks]

13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Yes he is, that’s his job, not much else, every squad in this league and maybe even the championship cost millions every week

 

We don’t have to look for shock and awe and hyperbole, there is quite enough of a mess just sticking to cold hard facts.  

But i am sure he should not be in such a role

[ARM1968]

It’s pretty simple really in my opinion. We either have money which we don’t want Rodgers to spend without the input of our new head of recruitment. Or we’re actually pretty much broke.  Either scenario leaves us deep in the shit. 
 

We cannot just have the attitude that we will write this season off. That is the sort of complacency that leads to relegation. 
 

If we are genuinely stuck with BR because we cannot afford to let him go then I imagine we’re going to sink ever deeper into the poo. Still, we’re only 1pt worse off than Liverpool and we can keep looking at things like that until it’s too late. Hopefully someone finds their balls and remembers that tough decisions sometimes need to be made. 

[BigMicky]

2 hours ago, gerblod said:

It's almost impossible for a throw-in to result in a positive move forward for the team taking it. Markers are tight on every potential attempt to be slipped. It's time the rules on throw-ins were changed to favour the team who've won them. 

You're picking at straws in your attempt to exonerate Rodgers from failing to create a squad with the creativity to adapt to each game that comes up. 

 

He's relied on the abilities of players who were here already, and were looking forward to a Puel-free environment where they believed they would be given the freedom to play the type of football the whole country admired. His new manager bubble is now well-and-truly burst now. 

 

In your scenario, where you're stating that players should be virtually self-regulating, what does a manager of Rodger's ilk bring to the team?

His job is to create a team which functions 'seamlessly'; which integrates all the players and subs into a coherent whole and to create a match plan which neutralises the opposition throughout the course of the game. The ancillary responsibility is to ensure that recruits are capable of supplementing the team's potential. Only Fofana has really met that requirement - and that's turned into a débâcle - where he can see that playing under Rodgers is a dead end. It's immensely fortunate for City that KDH was waiting in the wings - Rodgers was gifted that.

You're intent on finding fault with individuals. So be it. Many on here would point the finger at the manager's ineptness as the prime reason for their underperforming. The reality is more complex, involving significant extraneous factors. But, as far as I'm concerned, after three + years of diminishing returns from BR, it's time he gave the club the refresh he 'promised' - by taking the high road.

Alot of that is tripe, how do you know what the players want??  Plenty of players have improved. Justin, Barnes, he has kept Vardy going a challenge at his age,  KDH wasn't waiting in the wings at all,  he was proven Championship quality at Luton and Rodgers has pushed him on. Maddison has improved. 

 

As for throw ins,  watch other teams,  plenty of attacks or attacking play comes from decent movement at a throw in. 

 

And of course players are self regulating on the pitch,  do you honestly think they are all robot's. Madness

[sheffield_fox]

Don't know how it's not happened yet. The writing is clearly on the wall at this point. 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, BigMicky said:

Alot of that is tripe, how do you know what the players want??  Plenty of players have improved. Justin, Barnes, he has kept Vardy going a challenge at his age,  KDH wasn't waiting in the wings at all,  he was proven Championship quality at Luton and Rodgers has pushed him on. Maddison has improved. 

 

As for throw ins,  watch other teams,  plenty of attacks or attacking play comes from decent movement at a throw in. 

 

And of course players are self regulating on the pitch,  do you honestly think they are all robot's. Madness

Agree, and as much as I personally think we are at the point where it may be best if we had a change, the amount of hyperbole and need to shame one of our most successful managers is pretty grim and disrespectful to be honest.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, sheffield_fox said:

Don't know how it's not happened yet. The writing is clearly on the wall at this point. 

You stump up the cost and he may go, maybe crowd funding?

[Col city fan]

We are in a right old pickle aren’t we. Near bottom of the league, Chelsea and Man Utd to come, no funds to strengthen the squad and no major interest in any of the players we want to sell.

That it should come to this…

I have no idea what’s gone on at the club over the last year or two (other than the obvious… covid and not making Champions League), but as an outsider looking in, it looks like we aren’t being run very well at all at the moment.

We desperately need funds because as I said in the summer (and got slammed down on here yet again), our squad just isn’t good enough. I think we have the worst defence in the division, minus Bournemouth. All the talk is of a right winger. Personally I’ll say what I said LAST summer… we concede too many goals. The defensive side of the team is what really needs addressing and reinforcing.

Unless something changes pretty quickly, this could easily be a relegation season. 

[Poco]

2 hours ago, lcfc_forever said:

Interesting analysis here - suggests BR’s changes caused problems again, Ndidi played well except the mistake for the goal and Adams targeted Amartey as he was seen as the weak link:

 

 

That thread is very good - by the end of the game, I'm not sure any of the players knew what positions they were supposed to be playing or what their roles were. As the thread mentions, Rodgers can't account for individual errors but that's twice now, at home, that he has been 'out-thought' by the opposition manager by tactical tweaks and substitions.

It's almost like he'd planned his subs prior to the game ie. give Daka 20mins, make sure Youri comes on etc. no matter what was going on on the pitch...

[BenTheFox]

3 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

We are in a right old pickle aren’t we. Near bottom of the league, Chelsea and Man Utd to come, no funds to strengthen the squad and no major interest in any of the players we want to sell.

That it should come to this…

I have no idea what’s gone on at the club over the last year or two (other than the obvious… covid and not making Champions League), but as an outsider looking in, it looks like we aren’t being run very well at all at the moment.

We desperately need funds because as I said in the summer (and got slammed down on here yet again), our squad just isn’t good enough. I think we have the worst defence in the division, minus Bournemouth. All the talk is of a right winger. Personally I’ll say what I said LAST summer… we concede too many goals. The defensive side of the team is what really needs addressing and reinforcing.

Unless something changes pretty quickly, this could easily be a relegation season. 

Not good enough for what exactly? It should comfortably be good enough to avoid relegation. I would agree that it needs to improvement if we want to challenge for Europe again. 

[Col city fan]

17 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

Not good enough for what exactly? It should comfortably be good enough to avoid relegation. I would agree that it needs to improvement if we want to challenge for Europe again. 

Not good enough to win any trophies or, how we look at present, to avoid being in a relegation dogfight.

If you take off your blue tints for a moment and look how other teams are playing, we definitely look one of the most pedestrian and vulnerable teams in the division. And currently, we can’t strengthen.

I can’t see is getting many points from the next few fixtures, can you?

[5waller5]

25 minutes ago, Poco said:

That thread is very good - by the end of the game, I'm not sure any of the players knew what positions they were supposed to be playing or what their roles were. As the thread mentions, Rodgers can't account for individual errors but that's twice now, at home, that he has been 'out-thought' by the opposition manager by tactical tweaks and substitions.

It's almost like he'd planned his subs prior to the game ie. give Daka 20mins, make sure Youri comes on etc. no matter what was going on on the pitch...

It does seem that way - It’s Sunday league management!

[BenTheFox]

11 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Not good enough to win any trophies or, how we look at present, to avoid being in a relegation dogfight.

If you take off your blue tints for a moment and look how other teams are playing, we definitely look one of the most pedestrian and vulnerable teams in the division. And currently, we can’t strengthen.

I can’t see is getting many points from the next few fixtures, can you?

No, I can't disagree with this. I do however refute the idea that these players are not capable of better than this. I do think that a new manager could come in and get a tune out of these players to a point where we are not in serious trouble of being relegated this season. 

Edited 23 August 2022 by BenTheFox

[Deeg67]

5 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Not good enough to win any trophies or, how we look at present, to avoid being in a relegation dogfight.

If you take off your blue tints for a moment and look how other teams are playing, we definitely look one of the most pedestrian and vulnerable teams in the division. And currently, we can’t strengthen.

I can’t see is getting many points from the next few fixtures, can you?

A serious question: who in the table would you look at and say that on current form, under this manager, we would be clearly favored to get 3 points from?  As in, "that's a match we should bag, anything else would be surprising"?  If you can't honestly pick out at least four or five clubs, that means we're in serious relegation danger.

[Col city fan]

Just now, BenTheFox said:

No, I can't disagree with this. I do however refute the idea that this players are not capable of better than this. I do however believe that a new manager could come in and get a tune out of these players to a point where we are not in serious trouble of being relegated this season. 

I do agree with you mate. Perhaps I should have qualified my earlier post by saying I don’t think this squad is good enough ‘under Rodgers’. 
We watch players like Ndidi (possibly being the best example) and KNOWING how good he can be (only a couple of seasons ago didn’t he have the best stats for tackles won etc)? and seeing him now as a player lacking confidence, giving the ball away… a shadow of his former self.

I said at the end of last season, the whole set up requires a freshening up and a new direction. Nothing I’ve seen so far this season makes me think otherwise.

[shiv]

34 minutes ago, Poco said:

That thread is very good - by the end of the game, I'm not sure any of the players knew what positions they were supposed to be playing or what their roles were. As the thread mentions, Rodgers can't account for individual errors but that's twice now, at home, that he has been 'out-thought' by the opposition manager by tactical tweaks and substitions.

It's almost like he'd planned his subs prior to the game ie. give Daka 20mins, make sure Youri comes on etc. no matter what was going on on the pitch...

Fun fact on substitutions - we’ve made the least out of any PL team. Full list below.
 

Man Utd 15
Brentford, Palace 14
Chelsea, Leeds, Southampton 13
Arsenal, Villa, Newcastle, Spurs, West Ham 12
Liverpool, Man City 11
Bournemouth, Brighton, Fulham 10
Everton, Forest, Wolves 9
Leicester 7