Underachieving, overachieving or where we should be?

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

I might be absolutely mad but I'm genuinely optimistic about the summer.

 

The club have clearly identified the lingering issues of the last 3 years - an inability to dominate physically, legs in midfield and only one winger who contributes with goals and assists (you can add lookman to that).

 

We need physicality in the middle, we line up every week and the opposition is more physical. Bar Fofana we dont have anyone thats imposing in the air. Bar KDH we have very little running power. Bar Maddison we don't have a player that will go past players. Justin, Fofana and Ricardo look fit again. Daka shows signs for me he could be a top striker.

 

David Carmo, Orkun Kockku, Noni Madueke. Top 6 charge is on.

 

Edit - if anyone finds a creative physical box to box midfield let's sign him instead of Kokcu.

Edited 2 May 2022 by Chocolate Teapot

[sdb]

8 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....that is an amazing assumption...!!!

We keep coming back to I am a better supporter than you....mantra!!

That is 100% not what I said or suggested at all. The last decade has been the best in our history so naturally newer fans will innately expect more. Literally no idea where you've picked up the "I'm a better supporter" narrative.

[SheppyFox]

We have spent more time in the top 4 than outside of it over the last 3 seasons, no? 

[W7Fox]

6 hours ago, Nod.E said:

It's such a difficult argument, whichever side of the fence you sit, and is probably why we see such polarisation.

 

For many, the context of any performance is how well we're doing 'for Leicester'. History would dictate that any top league finish is decent and if you can get top half, that's more than enough.

 

Others, me included, look at what we did in 15/16, how we followed that up with an opportunity to finish top 4 and blowing it twice, as well as arguably a few too many blown millions on poor players, and worry that we're missing an opportunity to establish ourselves.

 

Granted, we don't have top 4 money, and I don't think it'd be reasonable to expect us to challenge for top 4 every year. 

 

What I do think could have been possible, though, is to reinvent the 'top 6' and see that become a 'top 7'. That genuinely appeared possible, and could have been sustained after cup wins, a premier League and consecutive top 5 finishes.

 

What a lot of fans have sensed, even amidst the top 5 finishes, is a malaise. A slow decline. What we've seen this year has been consistently disappointing, but what disappoints me most is Brendan's play that, not in so many words, we're just Leicester, so manage your expectations. And so what if we do decline to just do what Leicester have done historically? 

 

It feels like this is a moment in time, and this huge opportunity is slipping through our fingers. With recent success, the buzz that brings, the players that attracts, and yes the money it brings, we had every right to hope we might become an established top side, right now. 

 

The atmosphere at the stadium should tell you everything you need to know. It's so flat. Everyone senses the decline whether they like to admit it or not.

 

Conference league success or not, my take is that we'll continue our slow decline. Could be next season, could be the next. Eventually we'll get too close to relegation for comfort, and that'll be the end of Brendan. After that? Who knows, all up in the air. But what a shame that by then, that opportunity will be long gone, and fans of Brendan will point to cup successes to gloss over a missed opportunity to grasp what could have been. Hopefully I'm wrong on that, but another repeat of this season and I think the owners will pull the trigger.

 

There's another scenario which isn't totally out of the realms of possibility whereby we do keep players fit, we have a decent summer of recruitment, and we learn some lessons from this season. Perhaps then we may finish 6th or 7th, and that's something we should be reasonably happy with. But it absolutely should not be declared an amazing job or an overachievement. It should be a pat on the back for Brendan turning things around and doing a decent job, and on to the next season.

 

With the infrastructure being put in place, training ground and stadium, there is absolutely no reason for us to apologise for our history. Let's just hope that by the time Brendan is done, we still have a squad befitting of that infrastructure and are able to challenge for the European spots. 

 

The ironic thing is that another poor summer of transfers and it may in fact indeed become unrealistic to expect Europe, and maybe then we can all just agree to accept mid table because that's all we were ever meant to be? Some on here might be happier with that.

Great post!

 

Personally, anything between 5-9th should be seen as a successful season for us. We do not have the funds to outcompete the traditional ‘Top 6’ every season, particularly if they are all firing, and are therefore reliant on one of them having a poor season and us being the best of the rest.
The pattern we have seen over the last two seasons in us dropping out the Top-4 late on is just that - big team having a poor start to the season, sacking their manager and then a significant second half improvement allowing them to slowly reel us in with their superior squad depth/lack of cup competitions. 
 

It goes without saying that this season has been a decline, which can in part be mitigated by the number of injuries and poor signings. I do however worry that Brendan, has at best become a little complacent or worse lost some of his ambition! The inability to adapt our playing style to the team available or correct basic mistakes at set pieces this season (irrespective of available players) are key indications.  
 

Yes, winning the European Conference League would be a great achievement for the club and get us European football again, but in the backdrop of an underwhelming performance in all of the other primary competitions (EPL, EL, FA & LC).
 

Putting this seasons to one side and last years FA Cup win, we have been pretty awful for the last 12-18 months, and our transfer dealing not much better. 

This summer and the first half of next season is huge for us and Brendan. We would be incredibly unlucky to experience the same plague of injuries we’ve had this season again, and if we do, serious questions have to be asked about the training regime, medical staff. 
For me, if we are in the bottom half of the league by the WC break without a clear improvement in performance then Brendan will be thanked for his service but shown the door.

 

Nothing I have seen this season, makes me think another manager couldn’t come in and get better results out of this squad.

[Webbo]

According to the commentary, yesterday was our 57th game of the season. Add on the long list of important players injured, that means certain player being over played, some become undroppable because there's no one to replace them. It's been the case that we're coping the best we can. 

 

It's been a crap season, no one can deny that, but we're still in with a chance of a trophy. We've just got to hang in there because we won't get anyone better. 

[Guest Col city fan]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

According to the commentary, yesterday was our 57th game of the season. Add on the long list of important players injured, that means certain player being over played, some become undroppable because there's no one to replace them. It's been the case that we're coping the best we can. 

 

It's been a crap season, no one can deny that, but we're still in with a chance of a trophy. We've just got to hang in there because we won't get anyone better. 

Your last sentence is the perfect example of what I posted a few pages back.

You want to keep Rodgers because ‘we won’t get anyone better’?!

A. How do you know we wont?

b. Sometimes a football team needs a freshen up and a change of manager. 

There’s such a fear amongst our fan base that we’d get a duffer of a manager in if we got rid of Rodgers. That’s such a defeatist attitude. And Rodgers record this season with Leicester stinks

[Webbo]

10 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Your last sentence is the perfect example of what I posted a few pages back.

You want to keep Rodgers because ‘we won’t get anyone better’?!

A. How do you know we wont?

b. Sometimes a football team needs a freshen up and a change of manager. 

There’s such a fear amongst our fan base that we’d get a duffer of a manager in if we got rid of Rodgers. That’s such a defeatist attitude. And Rodgers record this season with Leicester stinks

You think we'll get a manager that'll finish 5th twice and win the cup? It's possible, but I don't like the  odds. 

 

People blame Brendan for us failing to make the champions league twice but ignore the fact that it was him who had us in the top 3 for most of those seasons. If we'd have been 6th to 8th all that time they'd have been happy. 

 

As everyone's favourite manager used to say, some people have delusions of grandeur. 

Edited 2 May 2022 by Webbo
Wrong quote.

[weller54]

9 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Your last sentence is the perfect example of what I posted a few pages back.

You want to keep Rodgers because ‘we won’t get anyone better’?!

A. How do you know we wont?

b. Sometimes a football team needs a freshen up and a change of manager. 

There’s such a fear amongst our fan base that we’d get a duffer of a manager in if we got rid of Rodgers. That’s such a defeatist attitude. And Rodgers record this season with Leicester stinks

...not to mention the boring, predictable football we're now playing under him!

It's shocking...our club needs someone with fresh ideas and to give us a team we want to watch again.

[Collymore]

8 hours ago, Guy said:

I suppose because Rodgers won us the FA Cup for the first time in our history last season though (albeit a seriously 'watered down' competition since the Premier League started in 1992 and even more so after Manchester United-gate in 1999 of course - but nevertheless, still a reasonably coveted trophy)

I think you're doing this achievement a disservice here.

 

I remember at the time many of us saying we would take the FA Cup over CL qualification.

[Pliskin]

You can look at things two ways. 
 

We can be like spurs, try to keep up financially with the top four and not achieve anything trying to.

 

Or

 

Focus on domestic trophies as a way of getting into Europe, win trophies along the way  and grow the stature of the club that way. 
 

If we win the ECL it’s another trophy in the bank, Europa league football next season and experience of winning in a European competition. Saville were doing this for years, they knew they couldn’t compete against Real Madrid and Barca, so they focused on competitions. If our league form dips but we continue winning trophies I’m all for that.

 

Taking spurs as an example, imagine if we manage to win the ECL, that and the PL, FA cup and the charity shield they will remain in the cabinet forever more, constant battles with the top four won’t. 
 

Id much rather us grow as a club by winning competitions. Eventually the stature of the club will grow, and we will be able to consistently compete against the top teams thanks to our success.

 

Theoretically….  

Edited 2 May 2022 by Pliskin

[StanSP]

I can't believe people put down the FA Cup win just to try and demean Rodgers' time here

 

[An Sionnach]

Leeds play entertaining football, very rarely do you get a boring match with them. Do we want to be Leeds? No we don't. If people are looking for entertainment and success they will be disappointed. Liverpool grind out more victories than they do by outplaying the opposition.

[StriderHiryu]

We've massively underachieved this season, that's a fact.

 

I do think Rodgers has earned the chance to do the rebuild and go into next season as coach, but if we had this sort of performance again in the first 6 months of next season, Top will pull the trigger pretty quickly. He may even be gone before then if we lose to Roma on Thursday, though I think that might be a bit rash.

[FLINTHAMFC]

1 minute ago, weller54 said:

...not to mention the boring, predictable football we're now playing under him!

It's shocking...our club needs someone with fresh ideas and to give us a team we want to watch again.

 

 

If you don't want to watch the games, don't watch them. You have control over that. You don't have control who the manager is so it's pointless fussing yourself about it. 

 

 

 

 

[Happy Fox]

5 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

We've massively underachieved this season, that's a fact.

 

I do think Rodgers has earned the chance to do the rebuild and go into next season as coach, but if we had this sort of performance again in the first 6 months of next season, Top will pull the trigger pretty quickly. He may even be gone before then if we lose to Roma on Thursday, though I think that might be a bit rash.

Rodgers is putting all his eggs in the Europa Conference basket, if our league form was slightly better 7th could have been easily achievable.
 

I cannot imagine Top, Rudkin and Whelan will be too impressed if we crash out on Thursday. We are I feel at a cross roads, should we rebuild under Rodgers or get in a new manager and let him work with the players that Rodgers wants to boot out?

[Collymore]

13 minutes ago, FLINTHAMFC said:

 

 

If you don't want to watch the games, don't watch them. You have control over that. You don't have control who the manager is so it's pointless fussing yourself about it. 

 

 

 

 

...That's the whole point of this forum though!

 

I find this type of post odd (seeing a lot of it recently) where if someone dares to have an opinion that questions Rodgers, people jump on them and basically tell them stop supporting the club.

 

What's that about?

Edited 2 May 2022 by Collymore

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Collymore said:

...That's the whole point of this forum though!

 

I find this type of post odd (seeing a lot of it recently) where if someone dares to have an opinion that questions Rodgers, people jump on them and basically tell them stop supporting the club.

 

What's that about?

Think it’s more about if you don’t like you are seeing, don’t go. No?   

[Collymore]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Think it’s more about if you don’t like you are seeing, don’t go. No?   

Either way, that's not how football supporting or this forum works though, is it? 

 

I just find it an odd thing. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Collymore said:

Either way, that's not how football supporting or this forum works though, is it? 

 

I just find it an odd thing. 

It is the only real power as fans we have though, so it the only real way to make discontent felt. Or booing, but that’s a different topic!

[Mike Oxlong]

The obsession with possession is holding us back. If you can’t defend and don’t create the trajectory is inevitable. 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

Your last sentence is the perfect example of what I posted a few pages back.

You want to keep Rodgers because ‘we won’t get anyone better’?!

A. How do you know we wont?

b. Sometimes a football team needs a freshen up and a change of manager. 

There’s such a fear amongst our fan base that we’d get a duffer of a manager in if we got rid of Rodgers. That’s such a defeatist attitude. And Rodgers record this season with Leicester stinks

Btw, we get rid of Rodgers and his coaching staff….we probably half our transfer budget in the process and need to sell an additional player. 

[UniFox21]

13 hours ago, Unabomber said:

Well we have a great squad which is better than that of West Ham, Wolves, Brighton and Newcastle and arguably even Man U yet we are below them all regardless of European comps. Also we finished 5th last season, spent a fair bit of money and instead of improving we have dramatically regressed. It’s a shame as I want it to work for Brendan. 

One thing to definitely consider is the injury to Wes. Entire season structure set up around him being at the back, turned sour in the final friendly and all the work out the window. Not an excuse, as at times we have been absolutely awful

 

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

I might be absolutely mad but I'm genuinely optimistic about the summer.

 

The club have clearly identified the lingering issues of the last 3 years - an inability to dominate physically, legs in midfield and only one winger who contributes with goals and assists (you can add lookman to that).

 

We need physicality in the middle, we line up every week and the opposition is more physical. Bar Fofana we dont have anyone thats imposing in the air. Bar KDH we have very little running power. Bar Maddison we don't have a player that will go past players. Justin, Fofana and Ricardo look fit again. Daka shows signs for me he could be a top striker.

 

David Carmo, Orkun Kockku, Noni Madueke. Top 6 charge is on.

 

Edit - if anyone finds a creative physical box to box midfield let's sign him instead of Kokcu.

I’m intrigued by it. 
 

Unlike some the retention of possession ain’t a warning sign for me, it’s an improvement from where we were at times this season. I felt at teams we simply didn’t run enough or work hard enough. 

 

Now it’s about getting speed and tempo with the possession - that’s hard to achieve at a seasons end but a full pre season it’s doable. 
 

There’s been tweaks how we treat injuries and Congleton has gone to which the club are looking to have a replacement of their own, they have reigned Rodgers in the right areas. 
 

If Rodgers does fail to do the tactics side, the club will be a better position for the infrastructure changes they made around him. 
 

The complete lack of depth in our squad probably won’t be exposed as much. The way we need to break into the top six again is evolving from a team with a very good starting eleven to a team with 16 to 17 players worth of fielding. 

 

Edited 2 May 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[Foxhateram]

I'm a little concerned about how disjointed we have been recently. We just don't look like scoring for large periods of games. To have 60+% possession but not create any chances is poor.  That being said, a lot of it is to do with a lack of confidence after a long slog of a season. 

 

We've looked better with our first team players back from injury and I'm confident that with a quality summer break and a good pre season we'll have a strong season next year.

 

If we win the UCL I think we can still say, despite everything, that's a huge success. Onwards and upwards.

[whoareyaaa]

2. Think we're about where we should be but not happy about the lack of excitement in the football at the moment. 

 

(due to injuries and individual errors we are where we should be this season however the football is drab, boring predictable far to often and this comes from the management.

 

Tricky situation as the signings brought in by the current management haven't really been great either and fallen out with players Preat, Soumare etc can't be good for the clubs future.

 

Tough call to make.