Ricky marking Abraham

[Diffco]

I had to start a full thread for this subject because I just could not believe the ineptitude of Brendan's instruction. Practically smallest player marking their tallest, on our now internationally renowned awful defensive corners. In a European semi final. Away. In what universe did Brendan think that was smart? Literally threw the game with that 1 decision and instruction. He's an utter tactical fraud. 

 

What, 10m a year wage to make those kind of decisions? I can't fathom it. 

[adam95581]

I was thinking about this last night. They were playing a back 3, we were playing a back 4. That means they had one more CB than us anyway. Their striker is also 6’3” whereas I am not sure if we had anyone other than our CBs over 6’1”

 

Someone is going to tell me I’ve got some of the heights wrong but the point is that there was always going to be a mismatch somewhere. I think the mistake was not having that mismatch set for the players at the edge of the box. As a smaller player it’s far easier to beat your opponent if you can stop them running than it is to beat them from a straight 1v1 standing jump

[Aus Fox]

One thing we have to note here is, we are a smaller team than Roma, we don't really have anyone outside Fofana and Evans who are good in the air - this in itself might be a bigger problem, but without Ndidi, we don't really have anyone other than the two CB who can challenge in the air. 

Then we had to weigh up who was their biggest threat from set pieces - Smalling? he is taller than Abraham and has scored 5 times this season from corners. Ibanez and Mancini are also both taller than Abraham and scored from corners too. 

Ricardo is probably our next best defender - Justin is poor in the air and often gets beat and no one else on the field is know to be a great defender or great in the air.

If Ricardo was marking any of their taller defenders and they had scored we'd be having the same conversation.

[LVFox]

Fully agree with this:

 

I can completely understand the tactic behind it, we’ve put our 3 taller players (Justin, Fofana and Evans) against their centre backs.

 

I imagine the thought being that Abraham was at the 6 yard box so that brings Kasper into play to claim a lofted cross to that area (although we can all see that’s unlikely), or the near post zonal marker if the cross is low. I’ll imagine we’ve analysed that the bigger threats from corners comes from their centre backs so we have to choose the lesser of 4 evils in this case.

 

Problem is that they were able to spot the mismatch and the ball from Pelegríni takes the near post and Kasper out the game and it’s an incredible header.

 

They are strong at set pieces and we are weak, without shoehorning taller players into the side it was unfortunately always going to be an issue

[STEVIE B]

12 minutes ago, Diffco said:

I had to start a full thread for this subject because I just could not believe the ineptitude of Brendan's instruction. Practically smallest player marking their tallest, on our now internationally renowned awful defensive corners. In a European semi final. Away. In what universe did Brendan think that was smart? Literally threw the game with that 1 decision and instruction. He's an utter tactical fraud. 

 

What, 10m a year wage to make those kind of decisions? I can't fathom it. 

Maybe Kasper or Evans had more to do with this ? 
Can’t be difficult to switch it about, there & then. 
Who knows ? 
I’m more amazed that it happened more than once ! 

[Stuntman_Mike]

It's completely unforgivable given the amount Rodgers earns, the importance of the game and for it to happen the following corner 

It genuinely wouldn't happen in Sunday league football.

[Balj]

Without Ndidi we were always going to have a striker/defender mismatch somewhere - Wes and Evans took taller and statistically bigger threats leaving Tammy inevitably against someone smaller.  So although I am furious about our general ineptitude at set pieces I can kind of get the logic. 

 

The bigger problem for me, last few seasons, is that other teams will have a keeper dominating that Tammy/Ricardo area and we don't.  I love Kasper as a man and as a shot stopper but our defensive frailties are to a large extent caused by a fundamental weakness in that space between goal line and penalty spot where other teams have a keeper who can dominate it to a greater extent. 

[Nalis]

Agree with your point but lets be honest, Abraham would have scored that regardless of which one of our players was marking him.

[smudgerfox]

I genuinely am at a loss as to BRs reaction to this problem. Yet again last night he said we lack physicality - he’s said the same over 18 months -that’s what? Three transfer windows? Since individual players aren’t going to get taller or bigger (much) the only logical conclusion is to ship out the weaklings and replace them with West Ham/Palace style giants. So get on with it then! Don’t give Ricardo a new contract! Justin has to go! Thomas too. Maddison’s out. Come to think of it Vardy’s not too tall. And no point in signing up Lookman. When you look at what his response involves by way of correction - it’s perfectly clear he cannot solve the problem and has just admitted defeat on what is a basic football fundamental. It’s a nonsense and it always was. 
 

 

[Dahnsouff]

[Dahnsouff]

We are Lillipudlian (No, not Liverpudlian) sized team...

[Guest ttfn]

Zonal marking has its detractors but this is where man marking just isn’t appropriate.

 

Worse still everyone gets excited about leaving 3 up from corners but it is a totally stupid idea when you’re suffering a mismatch in height/physicality at set pieces. In that situation you want to make the penalty area as busy as possible, stop anybody from getting a clear run, maybe give yourself the extra protection then of a man on the post(s).

 

If we are going to mark man-to-man then it was inevitable that a mismatch would occur somewhere. A side like ours should be marking zonally given the lack of physicality, the problem is we’re useless at it so have gone to man-marking which is fine when we’re up against a comparatively built side but that Roma side is huge - I think 9 of the outfielders were 6 foot plus. 

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, ttfn said:

Zonal marking has its detractors but this is where man marking just isn’t appropriate.

 

Worse still everyone gets excited about leaving 3 up from corners but it is a totally stupid idea when you’re suffering a mismatch in height/physicality at set pieces. In that situation you want to make the penalty area as busy as possible, stop anybody from getting a clear run, maybe give yourself the extra protection then of a man on the post(s).

 

If we are going to mark man-to-man then it was inevitable that a mismatch would occur somewhere. A side like ours should be marking zonally given the lack of physicality, the problem is we’re useless at it so have gone to man-marking which is fine when we’re up against a comparatively built side but that Roma side is huge - I think 9 of the outfielders were 6 foot plus. 

And it highlights the error in not matching them up 3 atb from the outset to have an extra six footer as opposed to a small winger … 

[notnow john]

After seeing what that ref was letting go,why didn’t we just grab them and prevent them getting to the ball?

We are embarrassingly naive.

[NewquayFox]

Watch the goal again and you see Evans watching the ball and moving towards it but his shoulder & shirt were pulled back, Ref was never going to give us anything last night… 

[RowlattsFox]

Is anyone bored enough to look at how many corners we concede? I think that's our first problem. Not a game goes by without the opposition getting corner after corner within no time. Seems that way anyway.

 

Arsenal haven't conceded a goal from a set piece apparently, what are they doing differently because they aren't exactly blessed with height either. More to it than that. 

 

In isolation, it was always going to be a problem against Roma. It was brilliant delivery and a great header. Two things we are unable to do from an attacking point of view, Maddison appears to be kicking a ball made of lead when he takes corners. 

 

Maybe harsh but for me Kasper starting position is part of the problem too. It's an outswinging corner so he should be standing nearer the six yard box rather than his goal line. Far too many times he's trying to save a header from point blank range. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

17 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Just proves how desperate we are for new ideas this summer. Can’t believe this.

[The whole world smiles]

52 minutes ago, adam95581 said:

I was thinking about this last night. They were playing a back 3, we were playing a back 4. That means they had one more CB than us anyway. Their striker is also 6’3” whereas I am not sure if we had anyone other than our CBs over 6’1”

 

Someone is going to tell me I’ve got some of the heights wrong but the point is that there was always going to be a mismatch somewhere. I think the mistake was not having that mismatch set for the players at the edge of the box. As a smaller player it’s far easier to beat your opponent if you can stop them running than it is to beat them from a straight 1v1 standing jump

I dunno talking from an 11 a side Sunday league level where there used to be a lot of grabbing and holding I used to prefer attacking the ball from a bit further out getting a proper run on the defender. Huth Morgan, Maguire who all scored set peice goals for us liked to attack from a little deeper. 

 

The power Abraham got on that ball from a standing jump when it's so high and a little behind is absolutely remarkable. 

 

I'm not absolving Rodgers of any responsibility mind as this was hardly a one off this week never mind this season! 

[Jakemoore]

So do we spend our summer recruitment drive in Curry’s signing fridges like Vestergaard? 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

39 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Jesus fvcking Christ. Your tallest player marks their tallest player. Your second tallest player marks their second tallest players. And so on.

 

Then you attack the ball with the aggression and desire to stop the other team from scoring.

 

This is stuff kids learn at about 6 or 7 years old. 

 

[SafewayFox]

1 hour ago, Aus Fox said:

One thing we have to note here is, we are a smaller team than Roma, we don't really have anyone outside Fofana and Evans who are good in the air - this in itself might be a bigger problem, but without Ndidi, we don't really have anyone other than the two CB who can challenge in the air. 

Then we had to weigh up who was their biggest threat from set pieces - Smalling? he is taller than Abraham and has scored 5 times this season from corners. Ibanez and Mancini are also both taller than Abraham and scored from corners too. 

Ricardo is probably our next best defender - Justin is poor in the air and often gets beat and no one else on the field is know to be a great defender or great in the air.

If Ricardo was marking any of their taller defenders and they had scored we'd be having the same conversation.

Agree with this but it makes you question why you wouldn’t start our best defensive and tallest FB in Castagne.

 

I also feel that if Brendan is going to stick with 1 up top that he needs to identify a taller/mobile vocal point.

 

Not at one stage did their 6ft + CB’s look at all threatened when we aimlessly looped balls their way.

[ALC Fox]

Is it any wonder we're being linked with:

 

Joel Piroe - 6' 1"

Habib Diallo - 6' 1"

Khephren Thuram - 6' 4"

Taiwo Awoniyi - 6' 0"

Ibrahim Sangare - 6' 3"

Charles De Ketelaere - 6' 3"

 

The club's addressing the problem. But it is a major problem.

[SafewayFox]

42 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So how can they not coach/encourage Kasper to use his advantage of using his hands?

 

When he punched the ball from the next corner it completely changed their next couple of corners as all they kept doing was putting it right into that area between the 6 yard box and the penalty spot knowing he’ll be rooted to his line. 

[Koke]

On fairness to Rodgers, they had Smalling, Ibanez, Mancini, Zaniolo and Abraham all over 6'2. I'm assuming Fofana, Evans and Justin were marking 3 of those. We just don't have enough tall players. 

[eblair]

I get the defence we had a small team; but that surely gets noticed sending them out prior 

 

of height was such a problem, start 3 at the back ffs