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Sly

Netherlands Vs Argentina - Friday 9th December - 19:00

By Sly, in General Football and Sport

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Koke

Koke

Posted
Posted

I like Messi but I also love LVG. He's been a divisive personality but he's had a tremendous career abd he'll retire after this tournament. So I hope to see a bit of success fir him. Been reading recently about his long standing beef with Cruyff, and safe to say Cruyff was a total cvnt of a man at times. 

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Manley Farrington-Brown

Manley Farrington-Brown

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40 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Van Gaal is a real gentleman. Very strict but very respectful and he demands a lot but also gives a lot back. Top man.

I've been very disappointed to find out he's a decent bloke. His furiously bewildered face when we beat Man U 5-3 was hilarious, partly because I'd always assumed he was an annoying twat. Always disappointing when your villains let you down.

Finding out that Griezemann isn't horrible was a real let-down too.

 

 

Edited by Manley Farrington-Brown
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Aus Fox

Aus Fox

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I think the Dutch are too strong and well organised here. A bit of Messi magic aside. Argentina have been pretty average so far, whilst the Dutch are controlling games, without breaking sweat. 

I think if Messi can get on the score sheet early it could be another Argentina v Netherlands classic - 3-1, maybe 3-2 🇳🇱 

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Raj

Raj

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1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

Been fantastic haven't they. Players passion has been immense, those videos of the players singing just like fans.

Different level.

You think this tournament  means alot to most fans but that passion from the Argies makes it seem.its like life or death.

Old Johnny from Borham Wood with his Nije Airs and Stone Island would  cry like a baby if he met them lot!!!

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Stadt

Stadt

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I think the Netherlands will shred the Argies on the counter, neither side have been convincing but Depay, Bergwijn and Gakpo will stretch their back line, especially Otamendi. Dumfries will be a handful for Acuna as well, always looked clumsy whenever I've seen him.

Edited by Stadt
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StanSP

StanSP

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11 minutes ago, TJQuik said:

I can't stand the football consumer culture with Messi. If he drags his sub standard team to a win it would be an amazing achievement of course but he's not owed a world cup just for being the biggest name.

No one saying he is owed it. It would just be a nice cap to his career to say he's won a world cup :dunno:

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Manley Farrington-Brown

Manley Farrington-Brown

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18 minutes ago, TJQuik said:

I can't stand the football consumer culture with Messi. If he drags his sub standard team to a win it would be an amazing achievement of course but he's not owed a world cup just for being the biggest name.

a) Nobody says he is.

 

b) He's the biggest name because he's the best player, it's not like some random thing he's got by being a Tik Tok sensation or something.

 

c) A lot of people quite like him. Mainly because he's a joy to watch; probably also partly because he's easier to like than the other of the goat brothers.

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Sly

Sly

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On 05/12/2022 at 13:29, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

a) Nobody says he is.

 

b) He's the biggest name because he's the best player, it's not like some random thing he's got by being a Tik Tok sensation or something.

 

c) A lot of people quite like him. Mainly because he's a joy to watch; probably also partly because he's easier to like than the other of the goat brothers.

Point C is massive in this debate. 
 

I typically find (not always) that Manchester United, Portugal or Madrid fans,  state Ronaldo is the greatest football player ever. 
 

Everyone else states that it’s either Messi, or even Maradona. 


I foresee prime Haaland, Mbappe, Ronaldo and Messi being on similar levels. It’s up to Mbappe and Haaland to do this for the next 15 years to reach similar numbers. 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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Neither Messi nor CR have done what Maradona, Zidane or the original Ronaldo did and be an integral part of winning the World Cup for their country.

 

That makes them not as good as those three despite whatever they may do at club level IMO.

 

It's not just about skill level, it's about applying that skill on the biggest stage of all, which is still a World Cup final. Messi had his chance in 2014, but fluffed his lines. Perhaps he might go one better here, maybe.

Edited by leicsmac
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Manley Farrington-Brown

Manley Farrington-Brown

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2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

That makes them not as good as those three despite whatever they may do at club level IMO.

I agree with so much of what you post that it feels slightly odd to disagree so strongly with you on this.

But I disagree with you so strongly on this!

It's simply something they haven't achieved, and doesn't reflect how good they are or aren't.

The best player in the history of football could come from Fiji, or Malta, or somewhere, and would never get to play in a World Cup, never mind win one.

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Lcfc098

Lcfc098

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3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Neither Messi nor CR have done what Maradona, Zidane or the original Ronaldo did and be an integral part of winning the World Cup for their country.

 

That makes them not as good as those three despite whatever they may do at club level IMO.

 

It's not just about skill level, it's about applying that skill on the biggest stage of all, which is still a World Cup final. Messi had his chance in 2014, but fluffed his lines. Perhaps he might go one better here, maybe.

Compare Maradona, Zidane and R9s team back then to Messi's

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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1 hour ago, Manley Farrington-Brown said:

I agree with so much of what you post that it feels slightly odd to disagree so strongly with you on this.

But I disagree with you so strongly on this!

It's simply something they haven't achieved, and doesn't reflect how good they are or aren't.

The best player in the history of football could come from Fiji, or Malta, or somewhere, and would never get to play in a World Cup, never mind win one.

That's fair enough, especially in these days where such international tournaments have precious few mug teams and having overall quality across the pitch is mostly necessary to triumph.

 

I guess I just don't buy into the endless hype surrounding both Messi and CR and while I think they are both superb players and the best of the current era (though coming to a close), I think it's foolhardy for so many people to label them the best ever.

 

56 minutes ago, Lcfc098 said:

Compare Maradona, Zidane and R9s team back then to Messi's

The Argentina 86 team was decidedly average by comparison to other teams at the time.  Maradonas brilliance (and cheating) dragged them to that Cup.

 

Fair point about the support that Zizou and R9 got though, however I maintain that if Messi really is the epitome of world class, the team around him is good enough for him to carry them to a major triumph.

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