Birmingham Clean Air Zone Fines.

[Ashley]

I'm looking for some help and guidance on the above if anyone is ITK with the new Birmingham clean air zones and the fines that come with them. 

 

So 2021, my friend drove us to a gig then a few weeks later to Christmas markets. Unknown to us that Birmingham now operates a clean air zone, he's been fined 4 times. 

 

In 2021 he moved address, to which he changed his details but the fines went to his old address - so again he had no clue that these fines were even a thing. They've now gone up... 

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks Ash.

[SeCrEt FoX]

11 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I'm looking for some help and guidance on the above if anyone is ITK with the new Birmingham clean air zones and the fines that come with them. 

 

So 2021, my friend drove us to a gig then a few weeks later to Christmas markets. Unknown to us that Birmingham now operates a clean air zone, he's been fined 4 times. 

 

In 2021 he moved address, to which he changed his details but the fines went to his old address - so again he had no clue that these fines were even a thing. They've now gone up... 

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks Ash.

Get in touch with them and explain the situation. My dad had a parking fine and a bus lane fine posted to his old address a few years back and it had gone up and court summons. He got in touch and got it all sorted. Obviously still payed his fine but for the discounted rate. 

[jammie82uk]

Understand the frustrations about the zone, we went to the o2 Academy and that’s just inside the zone and was unaware until we entered it 

 

53 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Unknown to us that Birmingham now operates a clean air zone

Unfortunately that won’t help as they will just provide evidence that signs exist 
 

54 minutes ago, Ashley said:

he's been fined 4 times.

that would mean he has been in the zone on 4 different days (zone operates from midnight to midnight) 

 

56 minutes ago, Ashley said:

In 2021 he moved address, to which he changed his details but the fines went to his old address

This is where he might have some luck if he changed his address details before the fines was issued although they might be curious in how he found out about the fines 

 

the only thing he can really do is as above contact them and explain the situation and hope for the best 

[SystonFox]

Just pay it. He messed up. Why should he he get off? Why should they bend the rules for anyone

ive been done going 36 in a 30. My excuse ..,, sun was shining windows were down music was blaring I wasn’t paying attention, I still paid the fine and did the time

[Ashley]

1 hour ago, jammie82uk said:

Understand the frustrations about the zone, we went to the o2 Academy and that’s just inside the zone and was unaware until we entered it 

 

Unfortunately that won’t help as they will just provide evidence that signs exist 
 

that would mean he has been in the zone on 4 different days (zone operates from midnight to midnight) 

 

This is where he might have some luck if he changed his address details before the fines was issued although they might be curious in how he found out about the fines 

 

the only thing he can really do is as above contact them and explain the situation and hope for the best 

Thank you for the help mate. 

 

 

30 minutes ago, SystonFox said:

Just pay it. He messed up. Why should he he get off? Why should they bend the rules for anyone

ive been done going 36 in a 30. My excuse ..,, sun was shining windows were down music was blaring I wasn’t paying attention, I still paid the fine and did the time

Because how many people know this actually exists? We didn't. It doesn't even tell you on Google Maps or Satnavs that it's even a thing where as the London one does. 

 

Thanks for the comment anyway, massive help 👍

[SystonFox]

11 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Thank you for the help mate. 

 

 

Because how many people know this actually exists? We didn't. It doesn't even tell you on Google Maps or Satnavs that it's even a thing where as the London one does. 

 

Thanks for the comment anyway, massive help 👍

I’m not trying to be pedantic or anything its a genuine question.

 

A lot of people don’t know it exists and that’s how they get you! That’s the point of them!

[Paninistickers]

2 hours ago, Ashley said:

I'm looking for some help and guidance on the above if anyone is ITK with the new Birmingham clean air zones and the fines that come with them. 

 

So 2021, my friend drove us to a gig then a few weeks later to Christmas markets. Unknown to us that Birmingham now operates a clean air zone, he's been fined 4 times. 

 

In 2021 he moved address, to which he changed his details but the fines went to his old address - so again he had no clue that these fines were even a thing. They've now gone up... 

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks Ash.

Depends if he has the time, money and energy....most haven't (me included) but very occasionally, I've taken on the lizards (and won). 

 

A fine is a fine. Not the law. You can contest a fine and challenge it in law. I've found that the law DOES stand up for the little man and ISN'T biased towards the lizards. But the little man rarely can be arsed to use it. 

 

I'd contest the fine. Say it was insufficiently advertised, that it was reasonable behaviour to be unaware of a clean air zone and breaking the law when (reasonably) unaware of any such law is reasonable behaviour. Offer to pay the charge itself as a goodwill gesture and acceptance that you had no intention of deliberately flouting the law, but won't pay the fine. 

 

You'll probably lose. But it's sometimes fun watching the lizards squirm for a bit

 

Edit; never challenge a speeding fine though. That really is a waste of time. Lizards have that part of the law locked in. 

 

 

Edited 16 January 2023 by Paninistickers

[Sly]

Cities with clean air zones

Bath has a Class C clean air zone.

Birmingham has a Class D clean air zone.

Bradford has a Class C clean air zone.

Bristol has a Class D clean air zone.

Portsmouth has a Class B clean air zone.

Future clean air zones

Greater Manchester (under review).

Sheffield will start charging on 27 February 2023.

Tyneside (Newcastle and Gateshead) will start charging on 30 January 2023.

Types of clean air zones

There are 4 types of clean air zones, Class A to D.

	Vehicle type
A	Buses, coaches, taxis, private hire vehicles
B	Buses, coaches, taxis, private hire vehicles, heavy goods vehicles
C	Buses, coaches, taxis, private hire vehicles, heavy goods vehicles, vans, minibuses
D	Buses, coaches, taxis, private hire vehicles, heavy goods vehicles, vans, minibuses, cars, the local authority has the option to include motorcycles

[Daggers]

Part of me reckons that your mate should be allowed to not pay. 
 

Part of me thinks I’m worried someone is driving on the roads and doesn’t see road signs. 
 

 

[syston_fox]

It's a tricky one because we nearly got caught out by it as well.

 

We saw the signs but as we didn't know about it, it had slipped our mind by the time we reached the destination and forgot to check. Our first thought was that it would just be payable by HGVs or something like that as know we didn't get caught by the low emission areas in London. Luckily remembered the day before the fine kicked in.  

 

I'd say if as it was four fines on four occasions it would likely be difficult to argue as it is fairly well sign posted especially along the Aston Expressway if that's the way you went into Birmingham? 

 

Isn't there a potential fine for not telling the DVLA you have moved within a time limit? Potentially worth seeing what that fine would be as by arguing that you had moved and not got the penalty notices, are you opening yourself up to a different fine? 

[Langley]

17 hours ago, Daggers said:

Part of me reckons that your mate should be allowed to not pay. 
 

Part of me thinks I’m worried someone is driving on the roads and doesn’t see road signs. 
 

 

at night, unfamiliar road, not looking up but at the sat nav etc.

[Stinkenzo]

43 minutes ago, Langley said:

at night, unfamiliar road, not looking up but at the sat nav etc.

I'm not sure any or those would be valid excuses to the law if you're flashed by a speed camera though 

[Captain...]

20 hours ago, SystonFox said:

Just pay it. He messed up. Why should he he get off? Why should they bend the rules for anyone

ive been done going 36 in a 30. My excuse ..,, sun was shining windows were down music was blaring I wasn’t paying attention, I still paid the fine and did the time

I think the point is that because he was unaware of the fines so couldn't pay them so now has a late fee penalty or has missed the early payment discount.

 

@Ashley is the fine still with the council? Or has it been passed to a debt collectors? If it's still with the council you get some joy by asking them to reissue it to the new address, then it will hopefully be at the initial fine. However if it is with the debt collectors then if he's contacted them and given his new details they basically have you and you're just better off paying it as soon as possible to get them off his back.

 

Just be careful chasing the council if they are as useless as Ealing Council you will be sent round in circles on their automated telephone service and if you use their web submission it'll probably be ignored and end up with the debt collectors.

[FoyleFox]

1 hour ago, syston_fox said:

It's a tricky one because we nearly got caught out by it as well.

 

We saw the signs but as we didn't know about it, it had slipped our mind by the time we reached the destination and forgot to check. Our first thought was that it would just be payable by HGVs or something like that as know we didn't get caught by the low emission areas in London. 

 

Isn't there a potential fine for not telling the DVLA you have moved within a time limit? Potentially worth seeing what that fine would be as by arguing that you had moved and not got the penalty notices, are you opening yourself up to a different fine? 

I'd never heard of it but did a Google maps route for an event and it flagged up. Although the website for the zone states our car isn't subject to it. Might check that again. 

 

The potential fine from the DVLA for not updating your address is £1k. Although, that might be your driving licence. 

[LiberalFox]

I thought in the other topic that was created there was an offering of grace for first time non-payers to avoid a fine and just pay the charge, not sure how that would apply to someone who had failed to pay 4 times.

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, Langley said:

at night, unfamiliar road, not looking up but at the sat nav etc.

Yeh, I'm still torn on it tbh because I don't swallow that as an excuse...and neither would a court. I am very empathetic, though I think the way charging is done is very unfair, there should be free 24hr park & rides and public transport for all.

[somebum]

Pay the fines as they stood before they added on for non payment. Fight them for the rest.

[LiberalFox]

I think I could easily miss something like that because it's stuff in a square sign, most of it is either advertising the council or displayed as a hieroglyph that didn't exist until recently. I rarely drive into a city and would probably be concentrating on finding the correct lane and focused on driving. I'd mainly be looking for circular (instruction) or triangular (hazard) signs, and paying much less attention to the square ones which are information that I wouldn't be expecting to find relevant. 

 

It affects people who drive older vehicles who now have to go online and pay a surcharge. Modern vehicles are exempt. I can see this catching out older people too. 

[whoareyaaa]

Clean air zone  another money grabber

[adam1]

I was only aware of the clean air zone due to the fact that am I employed by an organisation with offices in the Birmingham area.

 

Other then that, would not have had a scooby doo.

[Bellend Sebastian]

28 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Clean air zone  another money grabber

Foil their dastardly plans by simply not driving your non Euro 4 compliant petrol car (petrol cars made before 2005) or non Euro 6 compliant diesel vehicle (pre 2016) within the perimeter of the zone 

[FoxesDeb]

10 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Foil their dastardly plans by simply not driving your non Euro 4 compliant petrol car (petrol cars made before 2005) or non Euro 6 compliant diesel vehicle (pre 2016) within the perimeter of the zone 

I'm not entirely sure but I think we now have cities like this in Spain. I have yet to navigate the Spanish bureaucracy to obtain the sticker for my car, these things over here usually involve taking an A4 ring binder full of every single slightly official piece of paperwork you've ever been issued, several trips to a city about 3 hours drive away because you never have the exact piece of paper they want to see, and the offer of a sale of one of your kidneys. Understandably we're putting it off for now, and just keeping away from the places where we might need one 

[CosbehFox]

Btw there is a far larger sign above the Aston Expressway what says about the charge 

 

The size of the signs you see on the motorway when there is an accident size sign 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Seriously, we here in Leicester live less than 40 miles away and have never had news of this (I guess unless you're one of those weird people whose Midlands TV news is West Midlands (which might as well be Birmingham news)).

 

Stuff like this should be nationally advertised for 6 months prior, and not be left to a sign or two the moment you unwittingly arrive.

 

A tax on the poor again, as the wealthy have mostly moved onto to vehicles that won't be affected by this.

 

And yes, something needs to be done about air pollution, but this isn't it.

[tom27111]

4 hours ago, Langley said:

at night, unfamiliar road, not looking up but at the sat nav etc.

I wouldn't use that as a defence, he'll get done for driving without due care and attention 

Edited 17 January 2023 by tom27111