What percentage of blame do you apply to those responsible for our demise?

[ronnup]

Bunch of wazzoks. The lot

[los dedos]

Rodgers  47.5%

Top         47.5 %

Fans          5 %

 

Yes you, the happy clapper  shout down at any dissent. Calling us new fans, disloyal and anti LCFC . While constantly droning on about how we've always been a Yo Yo club and it just how Leicester City are .

I'm sure this gave Rodgers ammo in saying how most fans were on his side and Top lapping it up .

[Guest Lako42]

Board 45% 

Rodgers 40%

Players 15%

Edited 12 May 2023 by Lako42

[StriderHiryu]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

A cultural malaise has set in since the death of Khun Vichai. His force of personality, business acumen and ruthless streak meant we were a very well-run club. In his absence there seems to be a vacuum at the top of the club - nobody has the character to take things by the scruff of the neck and make tough decisions when required. This lack of leadership at the top has filtered down to the playing side - it took a few years following the helicopter crash for it to happen, but it's been on the cards for a while.

It's this. Vichai had to earn his fortune, Top was born into one. The experiences of both will be those that forge the person that you are and the actions you make.

 

I would put 100% of the blame on Top, which might be controversial, but he's the owner of the club. Or perhaps you put it on Susan Wheelan if she truly is the CEO of Leicester City Football Club, but I don't believe that's true. Top might not directly have done anything that led us to our current predicament, but it's his accountability. Unfortunately when you are the head honcho, it's your decisions and your ass on the line if it goes wrong. If you employ one or more people that aren't doing their job at the level you require, it's on you to remove them, or to have systems in place so these things are corrected quickly and efficiently.

 

Khun Vichai fired Claudio Ranieri less than 6 months after winning the Premier League, because it was the right move to do. It wasn't about friendship, or being a good person, it was about running a business correctly. Brendan Rodgers was not backed in the summer, whereas almost other team around us spent. You've either got to back the manager or sack him. If we weren't going to back him, he should have been fired in the summer and a new manager brought in who was backed instead. Or if funds really were as tight as suggested, then cutting losses on players who are now leaving for nothing needed to be done to rejuvenate the squad. 

 

In a season where Premier League spending was at an all time high, losing two of our best players in the summer and replacing just one of them with a vastly inferior player was a high risk strategy. That risk has totally backfired, and that's on the owner of the club. Rodgers needed to go after that six game losing streak. Even after a slight recovery pre World Cup, it was obvious he was on borrowed time. Vichai would have 100% fired him after that streak, Top didn't, and that's why we find ourselves on the brink of the Championship. He had multiple opportunities to sack him afterwards too, but acted with 8 games to go. 

 

I'm so angry about this season because we are in this situation totally out of our own making. In 2015 we almost went down, but that team had nowhere near the quality this team has. Even then, we tried everything that season to stay in the Premier League, with big money signings like Ulloa, a legendary player in Cambiasso and then spending big again in January for Kramaric, who was being courted by Chelsea! This season was rolling the dice and even in January who did we sign? A promising Left Back from the Danish League, a promising CB from the Championship and a promising player who had played in Ukraine and in France. Perhaps they would have hit the ground running, but it was always going to be asking a lot for these players to immediately become the difference makers.

 

It's been one awful decision after another, and this is why we find ourselves here. And worse, it will be deserved too. 

 

 

Edited 12 May 2023 by StriderHiryu

[FoxyLeon]

If you want to argue that Vichai's 'ruthlessness' is missing, then that's fine, but you then also have to argue that Top's foresight and willingness to give Pearson more time, kept our Premier League status and led us to the impossible of a domestic league title.

 

My answer, although I despise the bloke, is not Rodgers. I'm going to say that actually our demise is a result of Pearson, Walsh and Shakespeare (Even Powell, Kev Phillips etc) not being employed by the Club. I don't buy that the 'ruthless' Vichai was some kind of genius with his decision making....He appointed Sven and Claudio Ranieri! The truth is that since Pearson left, our standards have declined and our lack of footballing experience at the Club has dwindled. I think actually under Puel we managed to get some of that back. Contrast to Rodgers, and Puel was superior in every aspect. He was beginning to put together a very exciting young side, which looked fit and well coached. 

 

Why Pearson excelled, was because he wasn't arrogant...That's right! Despite some fans who didn't like him, I'll point out one simple area which shows he was not the arrogant man some claimed....DELEGATION. Whether it be the Coaching side that he brought in Shakespeare/Powell/Phillips to help with, the Recruitment side that he brought Walsh in to run, or the Leadership in the dressing room that he was constantly bringing in the right players to help with Wes/Huth/Was/Cambiasso etc etc.

 

Our demise is because Vichai and Top took over the running of the Club after Pearson left. I'd argue it's very similar to SAF and the Glazers at Man United. Despite record levels of spending, both by Top/Vichai and by the Glazers, they're simply poor decision makers in the Football world, and once the true captains of the ship in Pearson and SAF left, decline began. I guess you could also make a case that Whelan and Rudkin are our Ed Woodward. 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, CrazyKopCorner said:

He knew he was trusted and played on it with his BS - held the club to ransom with his payoff - stupidity on the clubs behalf but 2 Top 4's and an FA Cup was a reasonable smoke screen as to the underlying shambles he was overseeing. 

 

As I say all things being equal if he'd have done half of his job we'd have been safe 

But we knew what he was like. The board decided to ignore it or indulge it. When you allow the manager to publicly criticise his squad and do nothing about it you should take plenty of the blame.

 

Rodgers should have been taken out of the equation a long time ago. The fact he wasn't, and we were left struggling to find a suitable replacement, is a board failing.

[Chelmofox]

I think it fits within the RACI definitions really.

 

I see Rodgers and Rudkin as responsible for a huge percentage of the on pitch / training / injury / recruitment / salary issues. Rodgers got a lot of the control he wanted and made key decisions that led us to where we are. 

 

Top and Susan are accountable for letting it all happen. 

 

There is a reason why owners of Football clubs have to be ruthless.  Its to stop managers like Rodgers irreparably ripping apart the foundations of the club. Top put far too much faith in the management team below him, and failed his 'accountable' role. Those responsible should have been dealt with long before the situation became critical. Rodgers should have gone before the world cup, and at the very very latest before the last international break. Rudkin should have gone long ago.

 

So Rodgers is 70% responsible, and Rudkin 30%. But sadly, for me Top us 100% accountable, and I think Susan does a lot of what shes told. His role is to ensure that the club is run to the best it can, and blind faith and bloody mindedness has ended up causing the issues. Rodgers should never have been given the control he was, and if he wasn't we wouldn't be in the position we are now. 

Edited 12 May 2023 by Chelmofox

[Foxxed]

Players 5% - Reacting to an awful situation

Rodgers 40% - Abandoned the club's central pillars

Rudkin 30% - Watched Rodgers do the above

Top 25% - Delegated unwisely, little direction

[StonyFox]

I think Rodgers is the cause of all the issues, but ultimately Rudkin is the director of football, and it's his job to manage the football operation of the business, which has failed. Therefore I'd say he's 100% responsible. He should have seen Rodgers needed to go and put pressure on Top to act. He also should have had a replacement plan, which there didn't seem to be. If he did see the problems and Top didn't act, then he should have quit. 

 

This isn't trying to defend Rodgers, he absolutely failed as well, but the responsibility is with Rudkin. 

[turkish14]

50% Top
40% Rodgers 

10% Rudkin 

[Oldfox67]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

ah, Rodgers height in inches, got it.

Good guess but, he's never that tall. 

[Foxxed]

8 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Players 5% - Reacting to an awful situation

Rodgers 40% - Abandoned the club's central pillars

Rudkin 30% - Watched Rodgers do the above

Top 25% - Delegated unwisely, little direction

Actually I resent Rudkin more for watching it happen day in and day out. So I'd probably switch Rodgers and Rudkin's percentages.

 

Top is of course ultimately responsible but there's no way I'm giving the others zero blame.

 

 

Edited 12 May 2023 by Foxxed

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, BKLFox said:

I know everyone wants to blame Rodgers but christ the players have a high % in all this.

Even when Rodgers left we must have had 5 times where 1 of our players has got an assist for a goal against us, Ndidi, Maddison, Faes just 3 players I can think of whilst typing but this has happened through the season I wouldn’t be surprised if it was close to 20 times it’s been shocking & the response for how is that Rodgers fault…well he picks them!!
jeezus christ yes I get it you have an issue with Rodgers but let’s not pretend he’s using a controller to move them around, pass and shoot a manager has very little control once the players cross the line.

Very little control? He’s literally programmed them with a style of play for 4 years. Discarded and brought back no end of them, so no wonder they aren’t at 100% for the club.

Edited 12 May 2023 by Babylon

[JimmyC74]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I think it's fair to say that it's not just one person or one area that is responsible for us going from being the envy of almost every club in the country to being bumrushed out the PL.

 

We remind me of these cheeseburger pasties they sell in petrol stations in South Africa. Look the absolute bollocks, taste the absolute bollocks and then you can't remember how or why when you've had the squits for 3 weeks straight. 

 

Keeping it simple between manager and manager employed staff and club employed staff and directors/board/owners, I think its Rodgers 40% and the club 60%

 

What a disaster. Even a miraculous 2 wins in the next 3 and we somehow stay up, without serious changes across the board and many other areas on and off the pitch, we're gone next season anyway.

Difficult one to answer that. I am willing to share the blame / hate fairly evenly tbh😂🤪.

 

Rudders has presided over a tanking youth set-up, poor recruitment & panic signings, excessive wages and failed to bin BR until too late so he has to feature highly.

 

Seems like many of the players switched off from BR a long time back. You hear some cliques were allowed to develop (see our Belgian friends) and generally the team spirit we were once famous for has long since been consigned to the past. The lack of fight and pride in their performance- even after BR left - means they have to carry a lot of blame.

 

The Board / Top, I am afraid have been complacent at best and at worst well………

 

At BR, thought he was elite, was happy when he got his own way and then ran out of ideas, blamed the world and his neighbour whilst our house burned down.

 

Bar stewards

 

 

 

 

[ithuriel]

Bodgers for me, the fact he kept playing Wood in goal for instance and some of his tactical decisions and that first game of the season at home, 2 up on a baking hot day and he makes only one sub when the players are wilting in the heat whilst the opposition use all 5 subs, 2 points thrown right there.

[MrsJohnMurphy]

I think Fofana is getting off lightly here, totally messed up our pre season and wrecked our defence which we were never able to recover from

[Wortho]

Rodgers and the owners 40 per cent each and players 20.

[inckley fox]

I keep trying to reapportion blame, largely because I was quite late to the Brendan Out campaign and feel a bit culpable myself. I look at the board for failing to uphold their own model, or failing to act, or failing to allow the manager what would have ultimately been the opportunity to waste more money. I look at the fans for not demanding more earlier, even though they were caught between loyalty to something which the mainstream media told them was competent leadership and turning on people who had previously delivered success. I look at the players, mostly assembled by Rodgers and his men, who seem incapable of turning up for any manager. 

 

But it keeps coming round to Rodgers. He's a manager who turned a top 5 club into relegation fodder in two years. You go back to spring 2021 and we're Cup winners, favourites for CL qualification, with a relatively young squad, two years remaining on the contracts of Youri / Soyuncu, and money in the kitty for summer spending. How you get to here from there is something with few precedents in recent history. If you were kind you could point to apathy on the part of the board, the shortfall in summer 2023, and underperformance of players - but when that apathy also translates to loyalty to the manager, when that shortfall is the consequence of past misuse of funds and under-achieving, when those players were largely assembled by Rodgers, who never once questioned their commitment - it still largely comes back to him. You can't even give him the principal credit for us being a top 5 team in the first place, given that we were champions a few years before he arrived, and most of his star performers were inherited.

 

I can be kind about Rodgers' strengths. Critical of board-level errors which clearly played a massive part. And I can be damning about the squad that the past four years has resulted in. But if you're looking to point fingers, one man's short-sightedness, single-mindedness and sense of self-preservation is without question at the top of the list.

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, BKLFox said:

I know everyone wants to blame Rodgers but christ the players have a high % in all this.

Even when Rodgers left we must have had 5 times where 1 of our players has got an assist for a goal against us, Ndidi, Maddison, Faes just 3 players I can think of whilst typing but this has happened through the season I wouldn’t be surprised if it was close to 20 times it’s been shocking & the response for how is that Rodgers fault…well he picks them!!
jeezus christ yes I get it you have an issue with Rodgers but let’s not pretend he’s using a controller to move them around, pass and shoot a manager has very little control once the players cross the line.

Totally agree.

 

Sadly, for some players, Rodgers trusted them and they never repaid him / are not good enough. Ward being a great example of that.

Edited 12 May 2023 by Fox92

[Plastik Man]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

It's this. Vichai had to earn his fortune, Top was born into one. The experiences of both will be those that forge the person that you are and the actions you make.

 

I would put 100% of the blame on Top, which might be controversial, but he's the owner of the club. Or perhaps you put it on Susan Wheelan if she truly is the CEO of Leicester City Football Club, but I don't believe that's true. Top might not directly have done anything that led us to our current predicament, but it's his accountability. Unfortunately when you are the head honcho, it's your decisions and your ass on the line if it goes wrong. If you employ one or more people that aren't doing their job at the level you require, it's on you to remove them, or to have systems in place so these things are corrected quickly and efficiently.

 

Khun Vichai fired Claudio Ranieri less than 6 months after winning the Premier League, because it was the right move to do. It wasn't about friendship, or being a good person, it was about running a business correctly. Brendan Rodgers was not backed in the summer, whereas almost other team around us spent. You've either got to back the manager or sack him. If we weren't going to back him, he should have been fired in the summer and a new manager brought in who was backed instead. Or if funds really were as tight as suggested, then cutting losses on players who are now leaving for nothing needed to be done to rejuvenate the squad. 

 

In a season where Premier League spending was at an all time high, losing two of our best players in the summer and replacing just one of them with a vastly inferior player was a high risk strategy. That risk has totally backfired, and that's on the owner of the club. Rodgers needed to go after that six game losing streak. Even after a slight recovery pre World Cup, it was obvious he was on borrowed time. Vichai would have 100% fired him after that streak, Top didn't, and that's why we find ourselves on the brink of the Championship. He had multiple opportunities to sack him afterwards too, but acted with 8 games to go. 

 

I'm so angry about this season because we are in this situation totally out of our own making. In 2015 we almost went down, but that team had nowhere near the quality this team has. Even then, we tried everything that season to stay in the Premier League, with big money signings like Ulloa, a legendary player in Cambiasso and then spending big again in January for Kramaric, who was being courted by Chelsea! This season was rolling the dice and even in January who did we sign? A promising Left Back from the Danish League, a promising CB from the Championship and a promising player who had played in Ukraine and in France. Perhaps they would have hit the ground running, but it was always going to be asking a lot for these players to immediately become the difference makers.

 

It's been one awful decision after another, and this is why we find ourselves here. And worse, it will be deserved too. 

 

 

I think you're right. Ultimately responsibility has to rest at the Top, so to speak. And in particular, the complete lack of either backing or sacking Rodgers last year. 

 

You do wonder how the entire board could have slept walked into this catastrophe? I'd love to know what actually went on in the boardroom.

 

Why, after the apparent acknowledgement of Congerton's failures with his removal, was nothing else done to remedy the mistakes already made under the Rodgers' regime?

 

Or did Congerton read the room, see the inevitable, and take the first decent opportunity that came his way?

 

By last summer I think we were all frustrated with the stasis within the club. 

 

It's been suggested Rudkin had wanted Rodgers gone earlier, that it was Top that backed him until the end. Perhaps all Rudkin could do was get rid of Congerton, the only bodyshot he could lay on Rodgers who still had Top's ear?

 

Yet the complete lack of a plan when Rodgers was belatedly sacked!

 

Who knows what went on? I'd love to know! It's an incredibly expensive lesson for Top to learn. Let's hope he does, and can afford it!  😬

[inckley fox]

3 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Totally agree.

 

Sadly, for some players, Rodgers trusted them and they never repaid him / are not good enough. Ward being a great example of that.

I can't think of any crap team with any crap manager, in all footballing history, for which the players wouldn't also be deemed blameworthy. It goes with the territory, as we're discovering.

 

In the past, though, our downfall has come from a far lower pedestal. From 8th to 20th in 2 years under Taylor/Bassett, when 8th was the best O'Neill had ever managed, and when Taylor had inherited a very old and small squad. From 11th to 22nd under McLintock in a year (at a time when we'd had no significant top flight success in a decade and a half). Relegated as a freshly promoted side in 1981, 1995, 2003. Relegated after woefully poor investment for years in 1987. What's happening now is genuinely extraordinary in the steepness of the decline. It's actually hard to screw things up this badly.

[squidsworth]

Board 20%

Players 20%

Fans (mainly me) 10%

No clappers 50% 😜

 

[RoboFox]

50% Rodgers

50% Rudkin 

50% The players

50% the board 

[MPH]

A lot. 

[Brainy]

3 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

60% rudkin - after all he has had the final say on football based decisions. Whether that was allowing for medical staff to leave. not forcing a set piece specialist on rodgers earlier. Allowing rodgers to make some horrific signings. And coming up with the strategy to overpay everyone was always going to bite us eventually,  The training regimes that allowed for so many players to get injured including our youth was not addressed or at least not quick enough and even our youth team players have grown frustrated with the club for that. 

 

20% rodgers- sounds small but most of the damage he did could and should have been stopped much sooner in the process. If i give my toddler a can of paint i can’t complain when he paints the Tv. He did so much damage but we let him. My honest opinion is that he was hoping and expecting to get sacked, the club were oblivious and kept him. I think that’s why we had a very large switch in form starting at forest. I think he had downed tools and thought that after spurs it was impossible they could keep him… but they did… again he did the same for brighton … again he kept his job. I think he realized the club didn’t care and he could do whatever so knuckled down and got some results. Perhaps a realization of the damage his own reputation was getting. Eventually, his flaws came back to bite him and we slumped yet again. but back to my analogy, if i gave a toddler a can of paint again and he promised not to paint the tv, sure he might actually paint a picture or two.   but if i keep giving him the paint eventually the dog will be blue. 

 

20% Top- I think loyalty is rare and is generally a good trait. I think sticking with people who in his opinion have done well for him in the past isn’t a terrible thing. The blame for top is that he’s just been so naive. we’ve seen the issues for a long time so why can’t he. He needed to step up and be more authoritative and hold people accountable… he hasn’t. And of course he should have been the one getting rid of rodgers long before. I think people have taken advantage of his loyalty and that’s sad to see but after all it does fall on him. 

i was torn to whether that makes him 100% culpable or not… but i think him showing faith in the people he pays to make these decisions isn’t completely terrible. You do have to trust a process and it’s worked for us in the past. But focusing on big picture items and. or the smaller picture stuff is what’s done us. 

 

So the players aren't to blame, not one bit?!