Premier League Thread 2023/2024

[dsr-burnley]

18 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Let’s make no bones about it, yesterday’s VAR incident was an absolute shambles and backs up what I’ve been saying for a while since they started playing the audio - the communication protocols have to be much stricter. Take a leaf out of aviation’s book where comms between aircraft and ATC have clear, pretty strict language and have to be confirmed back pretty much verbatim. Just saying ‘check complete’ was always going to lead to this eventually. ‘Check complete, onside, goal’ and the ref repeats ‘Check complete, onside, goal’.

In rugby league, when the ref asks for VAR's opinion the first thing the VAR says is "onfield decision is a try" or "onfield decision is no try".  The ref can hear it, as can anyone watching on TV or with the right sort of radio in the ground, because it's all public.  Both ref and VAR are miked up.

[AjcW]

20 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

That isn't necessarily true.  When VAR is present, the linesman has to make a judgement as to whether one man's shoulder (or the part that is legal to touch the ball) is ahead of another man's toe end.  If he thinks, n balance, that it's 60% chance that the toe was further forward, then he will (eventually) flag.

 

If VAR is not present, then he will decide the players are level and will not flag.  One of VAR's primary roles is to disallow goals that would have been given in the past, or in the Championship for that matter, because the players were level to normal view but not quite level when the white heat of technology is used.  It's not easy to say why disallowing what were thought of as good goals is a worthy way to improve the game, but there it is.

Most in the stadium and watching on tv knew he was onside. It was a shocking on-field decision as much as off field. This wasn't one of those shoulder mm ones.

[String fellow]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

I don't understand why this is such a big thing that Liverpool are pointing to. 

 

Who cares?! 

 

 

 

It really grates on me how much Liverpool think they're constantly hard done by by the PGMOL. As if it's only them that decisions go against, or they lose out. As if they've never had anything go in their favour... 

Next Sunday, you can guarantee that Brighton will find themselves battling against the referee and VAR, who'll both be giving every close call in Liverpool's favour.   

[Dan]

No lover of Liverpool at all but consider them the lesser of two evils in this one. While it's funny seeing them on the end of this it's absolute nonsense and as irritating as Liverpool FC / their fans are, they might actually be able to cause enough of a fuss to force some improvements. They might not either but it's worth a go. VAR has been nothing short of a disaster from day one, it has never gotten better, it fundamentally does not fit. The Premier League's implementation of it has been particularly appalling as well.

[CosbehFox]

Just to throw another opinion into the huge void on this - at no point by those with the ability to actually create change are suggesting that VAR should be got rid of. Just more needless tweaks and hot takes about refereeing training. 

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Just to throw another opinion into the huge void on this - at no point by those with the ability to actually create change are suggesting that VAR should be got rid of. Just more needless tweaks and hot takes about refereeing training. 

That's perhaps because they have an understanding of the difference between bad human application of tech and bad tech entirely - the former being much more common than the latter and certainly more common than perhaps some of the more...."romantic" elements among football fanbases appear to think.

[Stadt]

8 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Just to throw another opinion into the huge void on this - at no point by those with the ability to actually create change are suggesting that VAR should be got rid of. Just more needless tweaks and hot takes about refereeing training. 

Football is very undemocratic in this regard. It'd never be put to the players, coaches or fans, instead it's a weird cabal of refs, executives and officials.

[BKLFox]

I don't see Liverpool coming out & apologising for the racist abuse Udogie is receiving from Liverpool fans on line for being fouled by Jota, they are to busy playing the victims & notice they will also challenge the red card Jones received.
They will probably win as well just to take a bit of heat off the Diaz situation which then just undermines the whole process, man i hope the body sticks firm & extends the ban for challenging because another weekend that will be a red all day long for 90% of the clubs in the league....sadly we know the body will cave as a good will gesture

[StanSP]

 

 

[reporterpenguin]

They've now appealed the red card for Curtis Jones.

 

If that gets overturned it'll be pure appeasement towards them. It may be accidental, it may be on the soft side, but countless players have been sent off for similar tackles (Perez against West Ham during the Covid season springs to mind?). If you go in with any force, accidental or not, and end up planting your studs that high on the shin it's going to be a red these days.

[Guest Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

Just to throw another opinion into the huge void on this - at no point by those with the ability to actually create change are suggesting that VAR should be got rid of. Just more needless tweaks and hot takes about refereeing training. 

What problem does getting rid of it actually solve? It solves the fact that some people think it ruins goal celebrations but what else?
 

Jurgen Klopp just spends Saturday evening whinging about the fact his team had a legitimate goal ruled out, Sky are back to drawing their own lines on so they can find something to talk to still stoke engagement. Steve Cooper’s still complaining about his team’s red card yesterday. Ange probably comes out and says Liverpool should have been down to 10 men but the refs only booked Curtis Jones. Football fans will still think everything against their team was wrong and claim it’s corruption. All the things that led to it’s introduction in the first place.

 

Its just endemic in football to use refs, officials and anyone but oneself as a scapegoat

 

At least discussing improving standard of refereeing, improving the process, making the tech better, making it more foolproof, even thinking about how the laws can be better written and interpreted should lead to some improvements.

 

Clearly there are problems with it all but ultimately I think the big problem is the culture around football and the attitude towards individuals, of which we’re all guilty, absolutely stinks.

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

What problem does getting rid of it actually solve? It solves the fact that some people think it ruins goal celebrations but what else?
 

Jurgen Klopp just spends Saturday evening whinging about the fact his team had a legitimate goal ruled out, Sky are back to drawing their own lines on so they can find something to talk to still stoke engagement. Steve Cooper’s still complaining about his team’s red card yesterday. Ange probably comes out and says Liverpool should have been down to 10 men but the refs only booked Curtis Jones. Football fans will still think everything against their team was wrong and claim it’s corruption. All the things that led to it’s introduction in the first place.

 

Its just endemic in football to use refs, officials and anyone but oneself as a scapegoat

 

At least discussing improving standard of refereeing, improving the process, making the tech better, making it more foolproof, even thinking about how the laws can be better written and interpreted should lead to some improvements.

 

Clearly there are problems with it all but ultimately I think the big problem is the culture around football and the attitude towards individuals, of which we’re all guilty, absolutely stinks.

At the moment, it deepens the issue you speak of. Because it places a further element of distrust and claims of 'corruption'. We are on the same page. As it stands VAR makes a moment of officiating decisions. Error will always be there but at least with a human error, you accept it and don't dwell on it. 

 

It's time for the sport to accept that officiating is a hard job regardless of what vehicle you use to present that VAR or no VAR. 

 

Equally this isn't a new trend - within the latin countries culture, it's been existing for years. 

Edited 2 October 2023 by CosbehFox

[Guest Kopfkino]

2 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

In rugby league, when the ref asks for VAR's opinion the first thing the VAR says is "onfield decision is a try" or "onfield decision is no try".  The ref can hear it, as can anyone watching on TV or with the right sort of radio in the ground, because it's all public.  Both ref and VAR are miked up.

I didn’t know this as I don’t follow it. Strange they bought someone in from rugby league to help last season and this hasn’t been sorted.

[Footballwipe]

The mistake we made was thinking refereeing could be perfect. It's made it worse.

 

It's a subjective thing with a few objective decisions and circumstances where subjective decisions can be made easily. Look at handball, look at the Jones red card. Loads of people saying Jones' red was harsh, loads saying it was stonewall. Most handballs are now argued the toss one way or the other, either because we don't understand the rules or people are inherently biased.

 

You can refine laws to the end of the earth, you can pick kids from 11, lock them in a room and educate them to be the best refs in the world for 10 years, but they'll still get blamed for defeats, bad decisions. Heck, you could just go down the "if the ball touches your hand it's handball" route and there would still be decisions that are argued.

 

So bored of saying this now but referees are human, they make mistakes, even when they have the technology. Egregious errors need to be looked at, and some referees are better than others, but VAR seems to have fooled some into thinking we can make this a perfect sport ref wise. We never have and never will and it's ridiculous to do so.

 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

The mistake we made was thinking refereeing could be perfect. It's made it worse.

 

It's a subjective thing with a few objective decisions and circumstances where subjective decisions can be made easily. Look at handball, look at the Jones red card. Loads of people saying Jones' red was harsh, loads saying it was stonewall. Most handballs are now argued the toss one way or the other, either because we don't understand the rules or people are inherently biased.

 

You can refine laws to the end of the earth, you can pick kids from 11, lock them in a room and educate them to be the best refs in the world for 10 years, but they'll still get blamed for defeats, bad decisions. Heck, you could just go down the "if the ball touches your hand it's handball" route and there would still be decisions that are argued.

 

So bored of saying this now but referees are human, they make mistakes, even when they have the technology. Egregious errors need to be looked at, and some referees are better than others, but VAR seems to have fooled some into thinking we can make this a perfect sport ref wise. We never have and never will and it's ridiculous to do so.

 

Of course, this really should be obvious.

 

However it's perfectly plausible for well-applied tech to reduce the number of mistakes in this case and we really shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[Corky]

11 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

The mistake we made was thinking refereeing could be perfect. It's made it worse.

 

It's a subjective thing with a few objective decisions and circumstances where subjective decisions can be made easily. Look at handball, look at the Jones red card. Loads of people saying Jones' red was harsh, loads saying it was stonewall. Most handballs are now argued the toss one way or the other, either because we don't understand the rules or people are inherently biased.

 

You can refine laws to the end of the earth, you can pick kids from 11, lock them in a room and educate them to be the best refs in the world for 10 years, but they'll still get blamed for defeats, bad decisions. Heck, you could just go down the "if the ball touches your hand it's handball" route and there would still be decisions that are argued.

 

So bored of saying this now but referees are human, they make mistakes, even when they have the technology. Egregious errors need to be looked at, and some referees are better than others, but VAR seems to have fooled some into thinking we can make this a perfect sport ref wise. We never have and never will and it's ridiculous to do so.

 

So many fans and pundits, encouraged by blame shifting managers, believe refereeing decisions are the determining factor behind failure, relegation, job losses etc so no wonder we end up here.

[Fox92]

3 minutes ago, Corky said:

So many fans and pundits, encouraged by blame shifting managers, believe refereeing decisions are the determining factor behind failure, relegation, job losses etc so no wonder we end up here.

There is far to much pressure on referees. I even see it on here "xxx is the ref for our game" as if people are looking to blame before a ball is even kicked. 

[Jaspa]

Absurd if Jones gets his red overturned, dangerous contact similar to Ayoze Perez away against West Ham a couple of years ago.

 

They absolutely got the second yellow for Jota wrong.

[StanSP]

Liverpool fans: PGMOL HATE US AND ALL DECISIONS ARE AGAINST US, NOTHING EVER GOES OUR WAY!! 

 

Other football fans:

 

 

[Super_horns]

Why did they miss the whole thing and think goal had been given is the big question!

Can only presume the VAR weren’t watching and just don’t want to admit it .

[CosbehFox]

17 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Why did they miss the whole thing and think goal had been given is the big question!

Can only presume the VAR weren’t watching and just don’t want to admit it .

Jet lagged from his appointment in UAE on Thursday 

[Raj]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Liverpool fans: PGMOL HATE US AND ALL DECISIONS ARE AGAINST US, NOTHING EVER GOES OUR WAY!! 

 

Other football fans:

 

 

Mistakes happen.

Nothing is going to make decisions  100%.

As long as it decks up clubs like sciusepool it's all good in my eyes🤣🤣🤣👍

[Unabomber]

Why are Dave Jones Carra and Lampard all wearing the same shoes 

Edited 2 October 2023 by Unabomber

[AjcW]

15 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Why are Dave Jones Carra and Lampard all wearing the same shoes 

Special offer on at BellendsRus 

[StanSP]

Omg Broja