Also In The News - part 3

[Tuna]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Worse than a war crime isn't it ?

 

What did I do when I saw @urban.spaceman entering this thread? I ran. 

Yemen

[surrifox]

8 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

What a horrendous world we live in.

Yep . I still struggle to get what the likes of Xi , Putin and whatever bearded loon is running Iran hope to gain by f***ing around threatening , invading and making peoples lives difficult 

[Lionator]

I can’t help but think that all of this now is simply about power and manipulation. Israel have squandered EVERYTHING following October 7th. Mass, systematic killing of innocent civilians kinda looks bad and doesn’t take a genius to see through the propaganda. Israel had lost it all, they were even struggling with the American government. There was probably only one way that they could regain sympathy, to poke the bear (or in this case the paper tiger). The evil, scary Islamic republic of Iran. That is the way that Israel shifts the power from the oppressor to the oppressed. The wilting sympathy from Europe, is regained. We are once again talking about Israel as the victim, rather than the aggressor in spite of them making the first move in this case. Whether that is enough, will remain to be seen. If it isn’t enough, they will retaliate again and aim to provoke Iran into an even bigger barrage. Iran would be stupid to take this bait, but they’re idiots anyway. It’s not good v evil, this is evil vs evil, and I cannot even fathom taking a side between these two disgusting governments of Israel and Iran. 

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, surrifox said:

Yep . I still struggle to get what the likes of Xi , Putin and whatever bearded loon is running Iran hope to gain by f***ing around threatening , invading and making peoples lives difficult 

It’s called strategic interests, you think these countries are just happy to roll over and let all of their allies and neighbours fall into the western sphere? I urge people to stop seeing these things through a good vs bad lens. Putin is a terrible man, but so is pretty much every US president post Kennedy. 

[bovril]

6 hours ago, StanSP said:

Worse than a war crime isn't it ?

 

What did I do when I saw @urban.spaceman entering this thread? I ran. 

Sorry but making puns while people are dying is pretty low. The fact that the mods allow this is farsi-cal. 

[st albans fox]

28 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I can’t help but think that all of this now is simply about power and manipulation. Israel have squandered EVERYTHING following October 7th. Mass, systematic killing of innocent civilians kinda looks bad and doesn’t take a genius to see through the propaganda. Israel had lost it all, they were even struggling with the American government. There was probably only one way that they could regain sympathy, to poke the bear (or in this case the paper tiger). The evil, scary Islamic republic of Iran. That is the way that Israel shifts the power from the oppressor to the oppressed. The wilting sympathy from Europe, is regained. We are once again talking about Israel as the victim, rather than the aggressor in spite of them making the first move in this case. Whether that is enough, will remain to be seen. If it isn’t enough, they will retaliate again and aim to provoke Iran into an even bigger barrage. Iran would be stupid to take this bait, but they’re idiots anyway. It’s not good v evil, this is evil vs evil, and I cannot even fathom taking a side between these two disgusting governments of Israel and Iran. 

Surely it’s Iran that been clever here. They’ve been attacking Israel every day since Oct 7 (and more occasionally prior to that ) via rockets fired into its territory by Hezbollah and the houthis (plus Hamas).  The generals who were killed in Damascus were involved in directing Hezbollah - hence they were considered reasonable targets.  one question I’d have would be whether Israel would have gone after them if they’d been  in the embassy.?  to say that Israel attacked Iran’s consulate and that was the first attack in an Israel/iran conflict is to simplify a very complex regional situation.  Hezbollah is a proxy of Iran and a rocket fired by Hezbollah is considered by Israel to have been fired by the Iranian govt. 

 

all within a context that both the Israeli and Iranian govts are invested in this conflict continuing and Iran are extending the time that netenyahu stays in place by this action. 

[Lionator]

8 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Surely it’s Iran that been clever here. They’ve been attacking Israel every day since Oct 7 (and more occasionally prior to that ) via rockets fired into its territory by Hezbollah and the houthis (plus Hamas).  The generals who were killed in Damascus were involved in directing Hezbollah - hence they were considered reasonable targets.  one question I’d have would be whether Israel would have gone after them if they’d been  in the embassy.?  to say that Israel attacked Iran’s consulate and that was the first attack in an Israel/iran conflict is to simplify a very complex regional situation.  Hezbollah is a proxy of Iran and a rocket fired by Hezbollah is considered by Israel to have been fired by the Iranian govt. 

 

all within a context that both the Israeli and Iranian govts are invested in this conflict continuing and Iran are extending the time that netenyahu stays in place by this action. 

That’s also a good interpretation! Both sides need each other in that case 

[hejammy]

1 hour ago, surrifox said:

Yep . I still struggle to get what the likes of Xi , Putin and whatever bearded loon is running Iran hope to gain by f***ing around threatening , invading and making peoples lives difficult 

Clear indication of propaganda effecting people's narrative. Non western leaders.... Baaaad, western leaders gooooood.... 

Edited 14 April by hejammy

[hejammy]

1 hour ago, surrifox said:

Yep . I still struggle to get what the likes of Xi , Putin and whatever bearded loon is running Iran hope to gain by f***ing around threatening , invading and making peoples lives difficult 

Sorry just to add, try living in Gaza at the moment, then maybe you'll really know the meaning of that last sentence... Seriously I don't even know if you're going for some kind of sarcastic humour or what with that? 

Edited 14 April by hejammy

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

It’s called strategic interests, you think these countries are just happy to roll over and let all of their allies and neighbours fall into the western sphere? I urge people to stop seeing these things through a good vs bad lens. Putin is a terrible man, but so is pretty much every US president post Kennedy. 

I don’t think you can compare the likes of Obama to Putin. Or actually most of the others.

[Lionator]

18 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I don’t think you can compare the likes of Obama to Putin. Or actually most of the others.

Morally he’s a much better person, and I am a big Obama fan, but Libya was hardly a great moment was it? Although I give Obama credit to admit his mistakes something that Putin, or George W. Bush would never do. Psychopaths. 

[WigstonWanderer]

7 hours ago, Lionator said:

Morally he’s a much better person, and I am a big Obama fan, but Libya was hardly a great moment was it? Although I give Obama credit to admit his mistakes something that Putin, or George W. Bush would never do. Psychopaths. 

He (and the others) also didn’t restrict press and individual freedoms, arrest, imprison and murder his political opponents, and generally develop a gangster authoritarian state. I’d say Trump is the only one who is showing signs of wanting something like that. I dare say there’s also murky stuff in the background with some of the others like Nixon.

 

Agree that when it comes to interactions with other countries the situation isn’t as clear cut. However, I do think there’s a clear distinction between democracies and other forms of government that gives democracies a greater moral authority derived from the collective sanction of their own people. Such democracies need to be able to protect themselves and sometimes this isn’t as morally clear cut.

 

Mistakes (deliberate or otherwise) have certainly been made in the past many times by Western style democracies.

 

 

Edited 15 April by WigstonWanderer

[Sly]

Unfortunately we will always have conflict, it’s the pure amount at the moment that is eye watering. War doesn’t have good people, or bad people. It was simply put, until widespread media, written by the victor.

 

The propaganda train on both sides to portray the others in a poor light has always been there. It’s just how it’s broadcast to the masses via satellite television and social media. Everyone has an opinion, however a lot of these conflicts have been rumbling on for decades. 

 

I remember starting a topic on here that was subsequently closed/ deleted entitled war just prior to the Ukraine conflict.
 

At the time I wondered if we were heading to widespread war and what the outlook would look like on the other side.

 

If you look now, it is definitely reaching a boiling point isn’t it? 
 

 

[jgtuk]

10 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I don’t think you can compare the likes of Obama to Putin. Or actually most of the others.

Didn’t Obama drop more bombs than any other US president 👀

[Lionator]

6 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

He (and the others) also didn’t restrict press and individual freedoms, arrest, imprison and murder his political opponents, and generally develop a gangster authoritarian state. I’d say Trump is the only one who is showing signs of wanting something like that. I dare say there’s also murky stuff in the background with some of the others like Nixon.

 

Agree that when it comes to interactions with other countries the situation isn’t as clear cut. However, I do think there’s a clear distinction between democracies and other forms of government that gives democracies a greater moral authority derived from the collective sanction of their own people. Such democracies need to be able to protect themselves and sometimes this isn’t as morally clear cut.

 

Mistakes (deliberate or otherwise) have certainly been made in the past many times by Western style democracies.

 

 

In danger of sounding like some of the crackpots that posted in here a while back, but I think we do live in a very flawed democracy, especially in the uk and US, even compared to places like France and Germany. You’re basically always voting for two different flavours of post 1979 neoliberal parties whose policies have continually failed us. Let us also not forget that Iran basically has the same democratic model as us in terms of an unelected head of state then an elected government below, which shows us how flawed democracy can be given that our most important ME ally is an absolute monarchy. But anyway I do withdraw my original point to an extent about presidents. I think it’s a very interesting time in terms of power transitions, India is the real one to watch over the next 40 years imo. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Notice the national treasure Rachel Riley is at it again, spouting lies and hate online then back tracking with absurd ‘I didn’t mean that’ when ‘that’ is just a direct quote of what she said. Dunno how she keeps her job at channel 4, shes a nasty piece of work.

[Dunge]

3 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Notice the national treasure Rachel Riley is at it again, spouting lies and hate online then back tracking with absurd ‘I didn’t mean that’ when ‘that’ is just a direct quote of what she said. Dunno how she keeps her job at channel 4, shes a nasty piece of work.

Did she reject your Countdown application or something? You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about her.

[SecretPro]

17 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Notice the national treasure Rachel Riley is at it again, spouting lies and hate online then back tracking with absurd ‘I didn’t mean that’ when ‘that’ is just a direct quote of what she said. Dunno how she keeps her job at channel 4, shes a nasty piece of work.

She is a properly vile human being. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

Anybody catch Cameron on Sky News today ? Hilarious.

 

(I paraphrase).

 

Cameron: “Iran have been reckless and brutal. How dare they, the bastards.

 

Burley: “What would Britain do if their consulate was flattened?”

 

Cameron: “We’d be bastards and bomb shit out of shit”.

 

Burley: “isn’t that what Iran did?”

 

Cameron: “Yes but they could’ve been nicer”.

 

Iran are a brutal, oppressive nation. For the good of the Iranian people, they need removing but the UK, US and Israel pretending to be the good guys “defending” is beginning to look comical because of their actions over the last 30 years (longer for some of them).

[ClaphamFox]

20 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Except Iran clearly don't want a war - as illustrated by this laughable 'attack'. The US clearly don't want escalation and have said so. Russia shat the bed when that rocket landed in Poland and, guess what, the Yanks investigation took all of 15 mins to declare the missile as rogue Ukrainian and de-escalate the situation. 

 

These things are largely being done for domestic.politics. 

I don't think any country is actively seeking to start a world war. The danger is that tensions slowly escalate to a point where it becomes a material risk.

 

Israel will very likely respond to Iran's rocket attacks in a way that is escalatory but also calibrated enough to avoid a full out regional conflict. These actions might include an attack on Iran’s proxies including Hezbollah, further targeted assassinations, attacks on the source of Iranian attack or other limited military targets. Then the onus will return to Iran on how to respond and tensions may continue to rise gradually. 

All of this may occur while the ground war in Ukraine shows no sign of ending and China continues to threaten Taiwan. The accumulation of geopolitical strife in different parts of the world can be a route to global war. These things usually aren't planned - events just pile up in such a way that they become inevitable. Hopefully that won't be the case this time. 

[Zear0]

56 minutes ago, jgtuk said:

Didn’t Obama drop more bombs than any other US president 👀

Think Harry Truman has a view on that. 

[Daggers]

I too despise La Riley.

12 hours ago, Lionator said:

It’s called strategic interests, you think these countries are just happy to roll over and let all of their allies and neighbours fall into the western sphere? I urge people to stop seeing these things through a good vs bad lens. Putin is a terrible man, but so is pretty much every US president post Kennedy. 

Fwiw: https://thetriallawyermagazine.com/2021/07/bill-barr-is-the-master-of-covering-up-political-scandals/

[Lionator]

The constant 'WW3' press reports are honestly so dumb and click baity. Even if Israel and Iran go into a full shooting war (which is nearly impossible due to geography), how would that mean it is world war 3? Was Iraq v Iran WW3? Was Vietnam WW3? Was the Falklands WW3? Nobody is jumping to Iran's aid, Russia is in it's own war and would put its own interests first, China is simply not an ally of Iran either. 

[Blarmy]

Just wish these arseholes that run countries would get in a room and thrash this stuff out between themselves rather than lobbing ordnance at their respective citizens. Boils my piss. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

54 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Did she reject your Countdown application or something? You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about her.

Haha, just every time I come across her in the news it baffles me she isn’t called out for her views/behaviour.