Also In The News - part 3

[Nalis]

Only disappointment is that Boris Johnson isnt overseeing a huge GE defeat even though most of it was his making.

[Sampson]

41 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

No surprise in these by-election results. I'm just amazed so many still voted for the Conservatives.

 

Let's have a General Election now, get the other mob in and hope they do a better job than how they left things in 2010.

 

 

I’d take 2010 Britain in a heartbeat today tbh. Those days seem like a virtual paradise compared to 2023 post-Brexit, post-covid, post-Truss Britain.

Edited 20 October 2023 by Sampson

[David Hankey]

21 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I’d take 2010 Britain in a heartbeat today tbh. Those days seem like a virtual paradise compared to 2023 post-Brexit, post-covid, post-Truss Britain.

And the prospect of another decade of austerity, no thanks.

[Sampson]

14 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

And the prospect of another decade of austerity, no thanks.

I don’t understand your point. Austerity was an ideological choice by the Tory party. It wasn’t an inevitability as a response to the global financial crisis and the place the UK economy was at in 2010, plenty of countries chose QE instead.

 

Blaming the 2010 Labour government for austerity is a new one to me, not seen that tactic before.

Edited 20 October 2023 by Sampson

[Daggers]

47 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Only disappointment is that Boris Johnson isnt overseeing a huge GE defeat even though most of it was his making.

Him and Truss not being at the helm of the final collapse is like Rodgers escaping having relegation on his CV. 

[Daggers]

Not really in the news, reasons why Pride marches need to happen and why “sTrAiGhT pRiDe” marches don’t. 
 

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/10/20/metropolitan-police-homophobic-attack-chadwell-heath-lgbtq/

[Alf Bentley]

7 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Him and Truss not being at the helm of the final collapse is like Rodgers escaping having relegation on his CV. 

 

Indeed, a large proportion of Tory party membership and at least a significant minority of the parliamentary party seem to see Johnson and/or Truss as the solution to their problems.

 

That's like LCFC fans blaming Dean Smith for relegation and calling for a Brendan/Sven dream team to get us back where we belong....

[Daggers]

Well done @Raj, yet again causing chaos wherever he goes. 
 

 

[David Hankey]

37 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I don’t understand your point. Austerity was an ideological choice by the Tory party. It wasn’t an inevitability as a response to the global financial crisis and the place the UK economy was at in 2010, plenty of countries chose QE instead.

 

Blaming the 2010 Labour government for austerity is a new one to me, not seen that tactic before.

I don't think it was an "ideological choice" at all. Weren't you aware of the infamous note left by Labour's Liam Byrne, obviously not.

 

Let's not forget, as well, when Labour do get into power next year they will only say the same about the Tories.

[filthyfox]

6 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Well done @Raj, yet again causing chaos wherever he goes. 
 

 

THIRTY ONE HOURS???!!!  

JESUS, were they all taking turns?

[Sampson]

19 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Indeed, a large proportion of Tory party membership and at least a significant minority of the parliamentary party seem to see Johnson and/or Truss as the solution to their problems.

 

That's like LCFC fans blaming Dean Smith for relegation and calling for a Brendan/Sven dream team to get us back where we belong....

I’m sure history will already treat Liz Truss as the worst PM in British history, don’t worry about it.

[ajthefox]

1 hour ago, David Hankey said:

And the prospect of another decade of austerity, no thanks.

Do you think the Tories should stay in power then? Do you think they're doing a good job?

 

I'm genuinely curious. 

[bmt]

58 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

I don't think it was an "ideological choice" at all. Weren't you aware of the infamous note left by Labour's Liam Byrne, obviously not.

 

Let's not forget, as well, when Labour do get into power next year they will only say the same about the Tories.

Oh my days that ill-advised joke genuinely informs people's economic/analysis to this day? Bizarre

[Daggers]

 

[David Hankey]

1 hour ago, ajthefox said:

Do you think the Tories should stay in power then? Do you think they're doing a good job?

 

I'm genuinely curious. 

Do you think Labour will do a better job? I'm genuinely curious.

[Sampson]

17 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Do you think Labour will do a better job? I'm genuinely curious.

Erm, you said you wanted them in.

 

ok, so you’re one of those people who claim they’re a “centrist” despite always taking the right wing position…

 

And of course they’ll do a better job ffs. Are you kidding me?  
 

Regardless of economic position, there’s no way they’d pass unethical, 17th century shit like the Rwanda plan, the nations and borders bill or the anti-protest laws. Immigrants, dual citizens, refugees, trans people and other minorities won’t get endless rhetoric and whipping up of hatred towards them and laws passed against them turning them into second class people. That’s an obvious improvement for starters. 

 

And how exactly could they make the economy any worse than Liz Truss did ffs! Tanked the economy in 2 weeks with her proposed libertarian utopia. Starmer literally can just sit there on the beach for 2 weeks and he’d have done a better job. 

Edited 20 October 2023 by Sampson

[Facecloth]

2 hours ago, David Hankey said:

I don't think it was an "ideological choice" at all. Weren't you aware of the infamous note left by Labour's Liam Byrne, obviously not.

 

Let's not forget, as well, when Labour do get into power next year they will only say the same about the Tories.

That type of note is left every time there's a change of government, its a joke. This time in a world of 24 news and the infancy of social media the Tories played a blinder by telling the everyone about it, and continuing to beat that drum. Its been stated many times it happens every government change but it falls on deaf ears.

Edited 20 October 2023 by Facecloth

[Jattdogg]

2 hours ago, filthyfox said:

THIRTY ONE HOURS???!!!  

JESUS, were they all taking turns?

It was like a doorknob everybody got a turn. 

 

Lol

 

[David Hankey]

12 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Erm, you said you wanted them in.

 

ok, so you’re one of those people who claim they’re a “centrist” despite always taking the right wing position…

 

And of course they’ll do a better job ffs. Are you kidding me?  
 

Regardless of economic position, there’s no way they’d pass unethical, 17th century shit like the Rwanda plan, the nations and borders bill or the anti-protest laws. Immigrants, dual citizens, refugees, trans people and other minorities won’t get endless rhetoric and laws passed against them turning them into second class people. That’s an obvious improvement for starters. 

 

And how exactly could they make the economy any worse than Liz Truss did ffs! Tanked the economy in 2 weeks with her proposed libertarian utopia. Starmer literally can just sit there on the beach for 2 weeks and he’d have done a better job. 

I don't think I said I wanted them in.

 

I'll be one of those who will spoil their ballot paper when the time comes as history has shown they are all as bad as each other.

[Sampson]

7 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

I don't think I said I wanted them in.

 

I'll be one of those who will spoil their ballot paper when the time comes as history has shown they are all as bad as each other.

No it hasn’t. History has never shown anyone as bad as the current hard right Tory party from 2019-present. This isn’t a normal Tory party, the UKIP wing took control of the party and purged the moderate wing of the party after the Brexit vote and has run the country and party into the ground with its absurd immigrant-baiting, culture war, anti-protest and libertarian policies and passed bills taking out the checks and balances that make democracy work.

 

Again, it’s obvious you’re a Tory posing as a “centrist” doing the classic Tory tactic of “they’re all as bad as each other”, which is the easiest answer and most basic propaganda technique there is. 

Edited 20 October 2023 by Sampson

[Alf Bentley]

Barring truly unprecedented events, it does seem like the Tories are heading for the exit door.

 

But anyone looking at the byelection results and assuming Labour will win a majority should think again. Might happen but might not.

 

To win a secure 50-seat majority, Labour would need to take about 150 seats.

Here are their target seats: https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

 

So, to achieve that secure majority, they'd need to take:

- About 26 SNP seats (more than the polls currently suggest)

- Numerous Tory seats that currently have 12,000-15,000 majorities (the byelection majorities were higher but byelection swings are rarely replicated at a general election)

- Seats not won since Blair or not even won then: e.g. Finchley, Macclesfield, Scarborough, Thanet, Basingstoke, Dover, NE Somerset

- Boundary changes are also likely to hand another dozen seats or so to the Tories, compared to 2019

- It still seems likely that photo ID will be required, potentially disproportionately reducing turnout among the young, poor and ethnic minorities, and favouring the Tories

- Things might unravel further for the Tories, but they might also reel in a bit of the Lab lead if the economy improves slightly, pre-election tax cuts are made or culture wars win some voters over; govts often recover some support in their last year

 

At the moment, it does feel a bit like 1996-97, when Tory defeat seemed inevitable - and it's hard to imagine circumstances in which they stay in govt (only the DUP, surely, would prop up a minority Tory govt and they'll only have a few seats).

But it's far from guaranteed that Labour will win a majority. I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, I'd love to see the current Tories decimated (and replaced by a more competent, reputable centre-right force) and we do need a stable govt long-term given all the difficulties that we face. On the other, an election where Labour were the largest party but reliant on Lib Dem support could be better if the LDs demand electoral reform as their price for supporting a minority Lab govt.

[David Hankey]

4 minutes ago, Sampson said:

No it hasn’t. History has never shown anyone as bad as the current hard right Tory party from 2019-present. This isn’t a normal Tory party, the UKIP wing took control of the party and purged the moderate wing of the party after the Brexit vote and has run the country and party into the ground with its absurd immigrant-baiting, culture war and libertarian policies. 

 

Again, it’s obvious you’re a Tory posing as a “centrist” doing the classic Tory tactic of “they’re all as bad as each other”, which is the easiest answer and most basic propaganda technique there is. 

You are somewhat presumptuous stating what you think I pose as. 

 

You have your opinion about politics as do I. That doesn't mean to say you are right and I am wrong.

 

The fact of the matter is I will absolutely staggered if Labour don't win by a landslide, probably greater than Bliar's victory back in 1997.

 

Time will tell on that and how they fare in Office.

[SecretPro]

Regardless of how they normally vote, anybody still hoping for a Tory government after the next General Election at this point either has a massive disconnect with the real world or is very rich and doesn't care.

Edited 20 October 2023 by SecretPro

[HighPeakFox]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. 

 

In other news, I'm hoping I can get home before the ark gets built. 

[StanSP]

I do find it ironic how the Tories are spinning yesterday's results. Saying that 'stay at home' voters didn't even vote for Labour. Well, yeah, they didn't even vote for the Tories so it's hardly a glowing endorsement of where they see government or how they feel about you