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Lionator

General News Thread

By Lionator, in General Chat

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fox_up_north

fox_up_north

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Wymsey said:

The poisoning at some children's lodge in Leicestershire appears very suspicious..; much rumours online as to why can't speculate about it.

Absolutely awful. At first I thought it was some mass allergic reaction to some food they had but reading a 76 year old man arrested for intent to poison is not what I expected. 

 

Sadly, nothing surprises me these days. 

  • Like 1
Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, bovril said:

Non serious answer: Battle of Bosworth.

Semi serious answer: WW1

Serious answer: Thatcher

 

Non-serious answer: First development of complex cells in the oceans

Semi-serious answer: Thatcher (she had a massive, baleful long-term impact on the UK....but we have to ask why all other advanced societies are increasingly a mess, to varying degrees)

Serious answer: The development of advanced global capitalism & non-development of advanced global systems of democratic politics to reform, control or alleviate capitalism's flaws

 

Before anyone responds...Yes, advanced capitalism came with enormous benefits; it's just that we're now seeing ever more of the downsides - even threatening the continued existence of human civilisation, as @leicsmac often correctly implies (Cassandra was scorned for her "doom-mongering" but she was right - Troy did fall. ;))....and, No, I don't have any template to resolve the problem of flawed global capitalism / flawed insufficiently global democracy, beyond inclusive, socially-minded democracy in nations & multinational blocs/organisations extending to a global level. But there's sod all sign of that happening. Indeed, we seem to be accelerating ever further from such improvements, thereby handing ever more power to the wealthy, the powerful and the violent. 

"Always look on the bright side of life...." :whistle:

 

A minor point: that survey seems massively flawed.

It gives options to blame Thatcher, Blair & Trump - or other events - but not Brown, Cameron/Osborne, Johnson, Truss or Starmer. I can understand blame for Thatcher being surprisingly low - because nobody under 50 will have a strong personal memory of her time in office. But the high blame for Blair seems surprising. Given those other options, I'm sure much anti-Lab blame of Blair would shift to Brown (the man who "caused the global financial crisis by overspending" :whistle:) or Starmer. Meanwhile, there are surely many who'd blame Cameron/Osborne's austerity govt or Johnson/Truss's chaos?

  • Like 3
bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Non-serious answer: First development of complex cells in the oceans

Semi-serious answer: Thatcher (she had a massive, baleful long-term impact on the UK....but we have to ask why all other advanced societies are increasingly a mess, to varying degrees)

Serious answer: The development of advanced global capitalism & non-development of advanced global systems of democratic politics to reform, control or alleviate capitalism's flaws

 

Before anyone responds...Yes, advanced capitalism came with enormous benefits; it's just that we're now seeing ever more of the downsides - even threatening the continued existence of human civilisation, as @leicsmac often correctly implies (Cassandra was scorned for her "doom-mongering" but she was right - Troy did fall. ;))....and, No, I don't have any template to resolve the problem of flawed global capitalism / flawed insufficiently global democracy, beyond inclusive, socially-minded democracy in nations & multinational blocs/organisations extending to a global level. But there's sod all sign of that happening. Indeed, we seem to be accelerating ever further from such improvements, thereby handing ever more power to the wealthy, the powerful and the violent. 

"Always look on the bright side of life...." :whistle:

 

A minor point: that survey seems massively flawed.

It gives options to blame Thatcher, Blair & Trump - or other events - but not Brown, Cameron/Osborne, Johnson, Truss or Starmer. I can understand blame for Thatcher being surprisingly low - because nobody under 50 will have a strong personal memory of her time in office. But the high blame for Blair seems surprising. Given those other options, I'm sure much anti-Lab blame of Blair would shift to Brown (the man who "caused the global financial crisis by overspending" :whistle:) or Starmer. Meanwhile, there are surely many who'd blame Cameron/Osborne's austerity govt or Johnson/Truss's chaos?

I think amongst a lot of right wingers 1997 is seen as the start of high levels of immigration and a decline in traditional British culture and values, which is a reflection of how the right have pretty successfully managed to shift a lot of blame on to 'lefties' for societal changes that happened on their watch and due to their policies.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Yeah but I also don't want to get in trouble. Im sure things will become clear pretty soon. 

 

The original post nearly went ignored and then two more pages of Donald Trump, just wanted to highlight that this is going to be potentially a very large localish story. It was all over the main news Yesterday and nobody batted an eyelid in this thread.

 

But I dont want to get into a Rohl situation either lol

Yes I was surprised it didn't get much response and on the surface it does seem like a story that could blow up into something quite big and quite nasty, but I wondered if people were reticent to speculate after some of the prickliness generated by some previous very unpleasant stories in this country.

  • Like 4
The Doctor

The Doctor

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

I can understand blame for Thatcher being surprisingly low - because nobody under 50 will have a strong personal memory of her time in office. But the high blame for Blair seems surprising. Given those other options, I'm sure much anti-Lab blame of Blair would shift to Brown (the man who "caused the global financial crisis by overspending" :whistle:) or Starmer. Meanwhile, there are surely many who'd blame Cameron/Osborne's austerity govt or Johnson/Truss's chaos?

I mean, I might not be the best judge here as I blame Thatcher for Blair and Starmer as they exist to kill labour as a left of centre project and embed Thatcherism through controlled opposition, but blame for Blair is pretty understandable? The right blame him for multiculturalism and hate him as a result, the left hate him because he's a warmongerer (plus the possibly apocryphal quotes of him being described as her greatest achievement by Thatcher), and he stays in the public eye because he tries for a rare intervention about once every 8 weeks 

  • Like 3
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Non-serious answer: First development of complex cells in the oceans

Semi-serious answer: Thatcher (she had a massive, baleful long-term impact on the UK....but we have to ask why all other advanced societies are increasingly a mess, to varying degrees)

Serious answer: The development of advanced global capitalism & non-development of advanced global systems of democratic politics to reform, control or alleviate capitalism's flaws

 

Before anyone responds...Yes, advanced capitalism came with enormous benefits; it's just that we're now seeing ever more of the downsides - even threatening the continued existence of human civilisation, as @leicsmac often correctly implies (Cassandra was scorned for her "doom-mongering" but she was right - Troy did fall. ;))....and, No, I don't have any template to resolve the problem of flawed global capitalism / flawed insufficiently global democracy, beyond inclusive, socially-minded democracy in nations & multinational blocs/organisations extending to a global level. But there's sod all sign of that happening. Indeed, we seem to be accelerating ever further from such improvements, thereby handing ever more power to the wealthy, the powerful and the violent. 

"Always look on the bright side of life...." :whistle:

 

A minor point: that survey seems massively flawed.

It gives options to blame Thatcher, Blair & Trump - or other events - but not Brown, Cameron/Osborne, Johnson, Truss or Starmer. I can understand blame for Thatcher being surprisingly low - because nobody under 50 will have a strong personal memory of her time in office. But the high blame for Blair seems surprising. Given those other options, I'm sure much anti-Lab blame of Blair would shift to Brown (the man who "caused the global financial crisis by overspending" :whistle:) or Starmer. Meanwhile, there are surely many who'd blame Cameron/Osborne's austerity govt or Johnson/Truss's chaos?

As well as this, there's far too little big-picture, long-term thought applied to projects and work that, yes, leads to no good end. 

 

The current systems are struggling to deal with the way the world is changing. 

  • Like 1
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, st albans fox said:


pretty amazed by this 

 

 

IMG_8823.thumb.jpeg.61251ad03ea7cc749f8dfaa9dcd25b39.jpeg

It's worth wondering how many people watch dedicated news channels as a matter of course anyway. 

 

That being said, if polling figures are anything to go by the "viewpoints" (as opposed to facts) espoused by places like GBN certainly have some traction. 

  • Like 2
Free Falling Foxes

Free Falling Foxes

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, st albans fox said:


pretty amazed by this 

 

 

IMG_8823.thumb.jpeg.61251ad03ea7cc749f8dfaa9dcd25b39.jpeg

It's seems to be the news channel of choice for my brother but not for me, at all. Not necessarily because of any political leaning it may have but that it seems a bit 'tabloidy' to me in presentation.

 

The Doctor

The Doctor

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, st albans fox said:


pretty amazed by this 

 

 

IMG_8823.thumb.jpeg.61251ad03ea7cc749f8dfaa9dcd25b39.jpeg

is it actually that amazing? like TV news is mostly a dead medium when the internet exists and is readily accessible to the vast majority in their pockets. Those who still watch TV news want the talking heads crap, which leads directly towards fox news and it's Poundland equivalent 

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Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
4 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

is it actually that amazing? like TV news is mostly a dead medium when the internet exists and is readily accessible to the vast majority in their pockets. Those who still watch TV news want the talking heads crap, which leads directly towards fox news and it's Poundland equivalent 

I get all my news from here and don't believe anything until verified by @leicsmac, @Bellend Sebastian or @Dr The Singh

  • Like 1
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Bellend Sebastian

Bellend Sebastian

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I get all my news from here and don't believe anything until verified by @leicsmac, @Bellend Sebastian or @Dr The Singh

The thought of someone only trusting content approved by whatever-the-opposite of-an-internet-personality-is Bellend Sebastian is absurd for a moment but then you remember that a lot of people take their information from sources that are what the bins round the back of the kebab shop are to a Michelin starred restaurant in journalistic terms so actually it's fine

  • Haha 1
Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, FoxesTez said:

The person arrested has now been named by police. 

 

A 76-year-old man, they said.

 

King Charles is aged 76. Don't want to speculate, but would explain the prospective global status of the scandal.

 

Edited by Alf Bentley
  • Haha 3
Md9

Md9

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SkidsFox said:

Meanwhile Trump’s decided to play Call my nuclear bluff with the Russkies. Stay safe everyone

Quicker this Moron dies the better 

  • Like 4
Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, The Doctor said:

I mean, I might not be the best judge here as I blame Thatcher for Blair and Starmer as they exist to kill labour as a left of centre project and embed Thatcherism through controlled opposition, but blame for Blair is pretty understandable? The right blame him for multiculturalism and hate him as a result, the left hate him because he's a warmongerer (plus the possibly apocryphal quotes of him being described as her greatest achievement by Thatcher), and he stays in the public eye because he tries for a rare intervention about once every 8 weeks 

 

Your and @bovril's comments about folk on the Right blaming Blair for immigration/multiculturalism seem reasonable, even if he mainly presided over a big influx from the EU, whereas the Tories more recently presided over a big influx from Asia and the Middle East, which I'd expect right-wingers to find even more abhorrent.

 

The Left might view Blair as a war-mongerer. I went on the big Iraq War protests myself - as a Lab member, at the time. I'm sure many, like me, would also criticise the extent of his abidance by Thatcherite ultra-free market beliefs, albeit softened by major improvements in public services & social provision and limited wealth redistribution. But would Lefties see Blair as the main reason for Britain being on the wrong track in 2025? The poll shows only 5-7% of Lab/LD/Green voters blaming Blair.

 

Blair won large majorities still in 2001 and 2005, so remained popular before he quit. Meanwhile, between at least 2010 and 2019, there was a lot of hostility towards Brown on the Right, due to the economic problems in 2008-2010 and their aftermath (skilfully weaponised by the Tories blaming the financial crisis on Lab overspending as a justification for austerity/cuts). I'm not saying this as a Blair supporter. I had more time for Brown than Blair - whose record was decidedly mixed. I'm just interested in how views shift and/or how they're distorted by flawed polls.

 

I'm sure that if Brown had been included as an option in the poll, a fair few on the Right would've blamed him rather than Blair. Likewise, the omission of Cameron/Osborne, Johnson, Truss and Starmer almost certainly affects the poll results. Surely, some respondents would've blamed each of those, given the chance? Although I think the issues are wider (uncontrolled global capitalism/finance exacerbating inequality & causing insecurity and extremism in all nations), I certainly view Cameron/Osborne as a period that did great damage in the UK (reckless, cynical Brexit referendum & poverty/inequality-inducing austerity/public service cuts) - much more so than Johnson or Truss, even though the former was more morally corrupt & chaotic, the latter more extreme, causing short-term damage due to her irresponsibly ideological budget.

 

Some interesting figures in that poll:

- Only 8% of Lab voters & even fewer LDs mainly blame Thatcher...how time allows people to forget....

- 17% of respondents blamed "None of the above"....I wonder who/what they did blame? Cameron? Johnson/Truss? Starmer? Capitalism? Don't know?

- The blame for the Brexit Referendum as the main reason is surprisingly high: 29% overall, 40% of Lab, even 14% of Tory voters

Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

The thought of someone only trusting content approved by whatever-the-opposite of-an-internet-personality-is Bellend Sebastian is absurd for a moment but then you remember that a lot of people take their information from sources that are what the bins round the back of the kebab shop are to a Michelin starred restaurant in journalistic terms so actually it's fine

See, you understand!

bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Your and @bovril's comments about folk on the Right blaming Blair for immigration/multiculturalism seem reasonable, even if he mainly presided over a big influx from the EU, whereas the Tories more recently presided over a big influx from Asia and the Middle East, which I'd expect right-wingers to find even more abhorrent.

 

They appear to, but they seem to have internalised the idea that the left are to blame, and Brexit is still brilliant. Though I'm going mostly on what I read online to be fair, obviously I would never mix with such people in real life. 

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