Case for the Defence

[Fox92]

All our defenders are shocking. If Rowett can get us keeping clean sheets it’ll be great work.

[kingfox]

Just a culmination of poor recruitment over the years.

 

Going from the years of Morgan, Huth, Wasilewski, then Maguire, Soyuncu, Evans, Fofana to what we have now is criminal. What we had then was the perfect mix of experience and talent, but most important of all, we had leadership and defenders who actually enjoyed the art of defending.

 

Now we have a bunch of defenders who are mistaken ridden, and will just fold in certain situations.

 

You can clearly see why we signed Lascelles, because he has certain attributes that we’ve desperately missed for a few season’s now, unfortunately fitness is bound to be an issue with him. 
 

Whatever league we are in next season, if we are able to keep Nelson, then he clearly needs an experienced leader alongside him. 
 

If he leaves, then you can make a case of us needing four new centre backs.

[Manwell Pablo]

4 hours ago, Tielemans63 said:

*spolier alert*....there isn't one.

 

I'm not the best at maths, but I've been saying for ages that our defence will be the reason I think we'll go down, and I've also bemoaned the fact that we seem to concede two goals every week...and have done for a while. So I thought I'd actually look into it and see if what I'm saying actually adds up.  

 

I've found the following:

 

In 22/23, the bottom three all went down with the following 'Goals conceded per game' ratios:

 

Reading- conceded 68 goals - goals conceded per game = 1.48

 

Blackpool - conceded 72  goals - goals conceded per game = 1.57

 

Wigan - conceded 65 goals - goals conceded per game = 1.41

 

The average for the bottom 3 that season was 1.49 goals conceded per game

 

In 23/24, the bottom three conceded the following:

 

Birmingham conceded 65 goals - goals conceded per game = 1.41

 

Huddersfield conceded 77  goals - goals conceded per game = 1.67

 

Rotherham - conceded 89 goals - goals conceded per game = 1.93

 

The average for the bottom 3 that season was 1.67 goals conceded per game.

 

In 24/25, the bottom three conceded the following:

 

Luton conceded 69 goals - goals conceded per game = 1.50

 

Plymouth conceded 88 goals - goals conceded per game = 1.91

 

Cardiff - conceded 73 goals - goals conceded per game = 1.59

 

The average for the bottom 3 that season was also 1.67 goals conceded per game (same as previous season).

 

 

Here's the fun bit; we are currently conceding an average of 1.61 goals per game. That's a worse record than 6 of those 9 relegated sides in the last 3 years. That actually jumps up to 1.83 goals per game since the start of November. Only Plymouth and Rotherham can 'beat' that stat in the past 3 years and is way above the average for each season.

 

Lastly 1.72 - that's the number of goals we have conceded on average per game since the start of 2022, excluding the title winning season under Enzo. So for 3 seasons, this has been allowed to happen, with largely the same personnel in place.

 

If (when) we get relegated, a complete overhaul of the defence has to be priority #1. For us to have been so brittle for 4 years is unforgivable. The stats are right there.

 

 

You really don’t need to over analyse statistics to know we concede far too many goals 😂 the statistic we haven't kept a clean sheet in over half a season alone is damming enough, unless we score 2 goals we aren’t picking up three points. 

 

 

[LCFCnotKPFC]

2 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

Said nobody ever

 

We signed Vestergaard in 2021.

 

He played just 10 times for us in the Premier League before we were relegated in 2022/2023, and ZERO of these appearances were made during the relegation season in 2022/2023.

 

He first became a regular for us in 2023/2024, featuring in 42 League games in which he was a key part in winning the league and having the best defence in the league. He also achieved this by partnering with Wout Faes, who our fans also claim is a horrific footballer. 

 

In 2024/25 when we were once again relegated from the top flight, he featured in 18 League games, just less than half of the 38 league games available.

 

How have people somehow become convinced we are where we are because of Vestergaard? He was blamed for our initial relegation too, despite not playing at all that Season. 

My eyes don't deceive me, he's the one guy always willing to get on the ball and try to progress it forwards. 

[Claridge]

4 hours ago, sdb said:

Both keepers, all full backs and most CBs are properly poor players. None of them are good. Combine that with no protection from our central midfielders, and downright lazy wingers, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. There are no leaders and we are physically weaker than probably every side in the league. We are ****ed. 

think amir is fine. Jakubs useless , but we do seem very weak

[Dan]

The defence is very poor, but I think the biggest error, and I've been saying this for years, is lack of proper defensive midfielder. We haven't signed a proper defensive midfielder since Ndidi. We once again failed to do this in January.

 

We have been a soft touch for years. It's been the case since Rodgers. A soft team who are easy to play through, who are bad at fundamental defending.

 

27 games without a clean sheet is a team getting relegated.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

3 hours ago, steve555 said:

Quite right, the cross for the 2nd goal was in the air along while, keeper should be claiming that. 1st goal was headed in from about 3 yards. Of course the defence is at fault but Begovic should be coming for both of those.

NO!

 

Neither of those crosses today were ones a keeper could be expected to come and claim.

 

Both were hit with pace, meaning there was no time to get into position to claim the cross.

 

Creswell’s cross had a bit of flight to it before dipping into the six yard box, but it was in no way one that ANY keeper would be trying to claim - it was in the six yard box by the time Begovic had taken a half step to his left.

 

The second on the other hand was a flatter delivery at around head height, adding extra difficulty to claiming it (if you’re coming to claim, you need to be sure you can get it before an attacker can get their head on it).

I also checked Begovic’s starting positions on each and he’s exactly where he should be for each.

[Long Eaton Fox]

If we had a strong cf and a strong cm this would combat the opposition's aerial threat. Instead we have Daka and Winks. We are a weak team and need a stronger physical presence.

[jayfox26]

Weve played 9 league games so far this year and only 2 of them have we conceded less than 2, Wrexham and WBA. We cannot win games if we have to score 3 goals to win. Its incredibly poor but I just dont see how we can improve our defence given the players we have available. 

[jayfox26]

4 hours ago, Long Eaton Fox said:

If we had a strong cf and a strong cm this would combat the opposition's aerial threat. Instead we have Daka and Winks. We are a weak team and need a stronger physical presence.

We miss Ndidi in this respect. He wasn't perfect and his form certainly tailed off towards the end for us but he was a big lad and would get stuck in. Even Vardy, despite not being tall, came back for corners and would win some headers. 

[foxfanazer]

7 hours ago, LCFCnotKPFC said:

 

We signed Vestergaard in 2021.

 

He played just 10 times for us in the Premier League before we were relegated in 2022/2023, and ZERO of these appearances were made during the relegation season in 2022/2023.

 

He first became a regular for us in 2023/2024, featuring in 42 League games in which he was a key part in winning the league and having the best defence in the league. He also achieved this by partnering with Wout Faes, who our fans also claim is a horrific footballer. 

 

In 2024/25 when we were once again relegated from the top flight, he featured in 18 League games, just less than half of the 38 league games available.

 

How have people somehow become convinced we are where we are because of Vestergaard? He was blamed for our initial relegation too, despite not playing at all that Season. 

My eyes don't deceive me, he's the one guy always willing to get on the ball and try to progress it forwards. 

He's shit 

[teblin]

Yesterday, I think to some extent it was other players than the defenders that contributed to to goals. Okoli should have cleared the ball further but we were really slow closing the cross down. Then mavadidi didn’t track his runner. The back 4 is shocking but the rest of the team don’t help defensively either.

[marketharboroughfox]

It's also hard to underscore how useful it is to have a keeper who knows what he's doing, and they're not as expensive/hard to find as outfield players. 

[whoareyaaa]

19 hours ago, kingfox said:

Just a culmination of poor recruitment over the years.

 

Going from the years of Morgan, Huth, Wasilewski, then Maguire, Soyuncu, Evans, Fofana to what we have now is criminal. What we had then was the perfect mix of experience and talent, but most important of all, we had leadership and defenders who actually enjoyed the art of defending.

 

Now we have a bunch of defenders who are mistaken ridden, and will just fold in certain situations.

 

You can clearly see why we signed Lascelles, because he has certain attributes that we’ve desperately missed for a few season’s now, unfortunately fitness is bound to be an issue with him. 
 

Whatever league we are in next season, if we are able to keep Nelson, then he clearly needs an experienced leader alongside him. 
 

If he leaves, then you can make a case of us needing four new centre backs.

Nelson and Lascelles would be fine need two new full backs though

[Clever Fox]

32 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Nelson and Lascelles would be fine need two new full backs though

I think Aluko will be fine on the right once he settles into the position. He looks to be playing somewhat reserved after the shock of his sending off.

 

We definitely need a LB. Thomas had a simple chance to head the Ball back to Bergovich yesterday and the attack was over. Instead he tried to Head it back into midfield which kept the pressure on.

 

 

[Foxin_Mad]

A lot of the problems with the defence come from the dumbass style we insist on playing, putting themselves under pressure and eventually losing confidence. It such a high risk low reward strategy to pass it out from the back, I don’t get it, especially when you do it at snails pace like Marti did. 

[whoareyaaa]

15 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

A lot of the problems with the defence come from the dumbass style we insist on playing, putting themselves under pressure and eventually losing confidence. It such a high risk low reward strategy to pass it out from the back, I don’t get it, especially when you do it at snails pace like Marti did. 

Marti has gone mate

[Claridge]

1 hour ago, whoareyaaa said:

Nelson and Lascelles would be fine need two new full backs though

nelson has been awful, like a rabbit in the headlights most of the time

[cropstonfox]

10 minutes ago, Claridge said:

nelson has been awful, like a rabbit in the headlights most of the time

Nelson looks poor in our poor team.

Would gave been better with a gradual 

Acclimatisation along side accomplished 

Defenders.We have a lot of expectation with these young players,but unfortunately 

they are not ready yet, or even ..not good enough.

 

[kingfox]

2 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

Nelson and Lascelles would be fine need two new full backs though

We’d probably need a whole new back four next season, especially if we get relegated.

 

If we stay up, hopefully we can keep Nelson, I’d be inclined to give Lascelles a new contract, but we’d need another experienced leader, as Lascelles no doubt would have numerous injury niggles.

Edited 22 February by kingfox

[Claridge]

1 hour ago, cropstonfox said:

Nelson looks poor in our poor team.

Would gave been better with a gradual 

Acclimatisation along side accomplished 

Defenders.We have a lot of expectation with these young players,but unfortunately 

they are not ready yet, or even ..not good enough.

 

Yep, it’s hard with the senior players being so useless.The young players hopefully will gain from these experiences, but it could scar them for life🫣

[Chrysalis]

Remember organised teams defend from the front and its not something to put on the backline for blame.

This is a combination of tactics, mentality, motivation, and fitness.

I hope we look past the "last man beaten" mentality on here.  There is a bigger picture than the last man beaten.

Time and time again I see a static midfield as the opposition just dribbles or does a single pass directly to their front players.  I expect players are been told to stick to positions (zonal), so dont close down, and also they lack fitness to press due to Seagrave as well.

The absolute best teams get the ball back, within a few seconds of losing it, Pep used to say his Barca team was praised for passing but the real strength was they just won it back right away when the ball was lost.

Edited 22 February by Chrysalis

[Stadt]

We’ve repeated nearly every mistake of 22/23 but scaled down. The idea of a DoF is to stop that sort of thing happening.

 

We never really clear the decks, who was the last defender we sold for any money that wasn’t first choice? It’s either a big sale à la Maguire or Fofana or leave on a free like Soyuncu, Benkovic, Evans, Amartey. 
 

We just never shift players we don’t want so we’re stuck with rotten players until their contracts expire. Overpaying for potentially 3 relegations in 4 seasons  - it is laughable.

Edited 22 February by Stadt

[nnfox]

The defence is bad, we can all see that.  Statistically, the defensive numbers are in and around relegation form.  That's a worry, for sure, and the defence needs a proper clear out in the summer.

 

Some reason for some optimism though, if you're going to delve into stats...  The goals scored column makes for better viewing.  We've scored at a rate of 1.39 goals per game which projects to 64 goals over a 46 game season.  Only one team has ever finished in the bottom 3 of the Championship since 1991 after scoring more.  That was Peterborough in 2013 who were relegated with 54 points (scored 66 goals).  Their defence was comparable to ours (theirs actually slightly worse). Peterborough's 54 points that season was also the most points scored by a relegated team in the same time.

 

Our points per game this season is 1.18, which puts us on 54 points - 6 = 48.

 

We are certainly in relegation trouble.  But the season isn't over yet.  My prediction... It's going to be close!

[Stadt]

6 minutes ago, nnfox said:

The defence is bad, we can all see that.  Statistically, the defensive numbers are in and around relegation form.  That's a worry, for sure, and the defence needs a proper clear out in the summer.

 

Some reason for some optimism though, if you're going to delve into stats...  The goals scored column makes for better viewing.  We've scored at a rate of 1.39 goals per game which projects to 64 goals over a 46 game season.  Only one team has ever finished in the bottom 3 of the Championship since 1991 after scoring more.  That was Peterborough in 2013 who were relegated with 54 points (scored 66 goals).  Their defence was comparable to ours (theirs actually slightly worse). Peterborough's 54 points that season was also the most points scored by a relegated team in the same time.

 

Our points per game this season is 1.18, which puts us on 54 points - 6 = 48.

 

We are certainly in relegation trouble.  But the season isn't over yet.  My prediction... It's going to be close!

I wonder who got relegated with the second most points?