League One - Who manages us?

[BigGibbo]

Glover and Rudkin haven't done any actual scouting/work in about 5 years. Their combined little black books only have about a dozen names that we've not already ran through for playing and coaching staff.

 

Would be unbelievable if not for the last 5 years. Southampton are loving that we keep going back to all their failures and cast offs. It's like a sliding doors episode for them at the minute where they get to see where they could have been had they persisted with these failures like us.

[ian__marshall]

19 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

I remember seeing an interview with Martin when he was being linked with us last summer before he joined Rangers. He was saying that he’d learned from his mistakes at Southampton and would be more pragmatic in future. Then he went to Rangers, tried to play exactly the same way, lost the dressing room immediately and was sacked after 123 days. 
 

The problem with Martin is not that he favours possession football—most teams that get promoted from League One seek to dominate the ball. The problem is that the type of possession football he favours is the highest risk version there is. He likes both full backs to play high or invert, which results in the centre halves getting split wide open with the keeper acting as a third centre half. This means that when possession is lost, the team is already spread across the pitch, making it vulnerable to transition. His refusal to allow his players to play longer balls means they’re constantly receiving the bad in tight areas and trying to pass through the press, which demands a huge amount of technical ability and 100% concentration the entire game. When one player has a poor touch or misses a pass, the whole structure collapses.

 

We’ve just been relegated (again) with a team that on paper should have done much better but were undone by horrendous defensive fragility—and defensive fragility is the defining characteristic of Martin’s teams. I can’t imagine the club actually wants us to remain a defensive basket case, so if they really do want Martin it must be because he’s assured them he’ll be more pragmatic in future. But do we really want to take a punt on a manager who has never shown any inclination to change his approach on the basis that he might somehow find it within himself to do so with us?

 

On the plus side, it still seems to be only Nixon reporting this—and he’s about as reliable as a Russell Martin-coached defence. 

I agree that defensively his sides aren't the best. That said we were horrendous defensively last season and had he been in charge I don't think we'd have conceded more goals. 

 

The upside to his style of play is his teams score a similar amount of goals than they concede. Both Hull and Wrexham conceded a similar amount of goals this season as ourselves, but scored as many as they conceded. One made the playoffs and will now play PL football, the other missed out on the playoffs by 2 points. 

 

Yes, we were seriously crap at the back last season, but arguably our failing wasn't defending, rather our inability to score goals. 

[fox_favourite]

8 hours ago, GrobyLCFC31 said:

One view is that he’s had time away from the game to analyse, reflect and review his previous two jobs and we hope and pray to get a Russ Martin with fire in his belly ready to prove a point! 
 

I remember Sean Dyche saying that he became a better manager after being sacked because he had time to refresh and breathe without the pressures of being in the game. 

He’s played youth previously at MK dons, Swansea and Southampton and his Brendan/Man City playing style is right up Top’s street! 🙄

 

One things for certain, we’d need a lot of player turnover because I can’t see many of the current mob being able to play the way he’d want us to. 

 

Like Cooper? 

 

How many players league 1 standard can play his football well enough to be effective? How many championship players can play it well? Not many. This is the reason this doesn't make any sense. His stats aren't great over a number of years. 

 

Thisan would be a disaster and his football won't work in league 1. We need to be direct robust and that everything Martins 'tactics' are not. 

 

Another short sightedness from board. I hoped with McCarron we would have a wider net to look at potential managers, but if we end up with the usual suspects, nothing has/will change, not a single lesson has been learnt from the last 4/5 years. 

 

Please let it be bull bottom, because that is what it'll be be 

[Lionator]

One of the issues is that Martin makes it about his style of play, so there’ll always be that disconnection between fans and team. Think the worst excesses of Enzo ball but without the being a good coach thing, which Enzo fortunately was. 
 

At this point we basically need a dog of a manager than likes 4-4-2, can develop youth and can actually put some pride in the badge, even if it’s ugly along the way. 

Edited Monday at 06:17 by Lionator

[SemperEadem]

There was a sizeable amount of an away end voicing displeasure at him getting the gig previously, does seem crackers if they are going to try for him again.

[Chelmofox]

8 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

As per my previous post not a huge fan of RM but for balance, they got relegated the season prior with an awful team who had all the hallmarks of a Nathan Jones side so I wouldn't describe them as a team of riches. Yes, a lot of those players cost decent money, but that doesn't necessarily equate to good Championship players as we have discovered this season. He got a very average group in terms of technical ability playing some decent football at times.

 

Nathan Jones lasted 8 PL games at Southampton after they sacked Hasenhüttl. I would say balming Jones for anything to do with Russell reign is a significant chunk of whataboutism.

[ClaphamFox]

1 hour ago, ian__marshall said:

I agree that defensively his sides aren't the best. That said we were horrendous defensively last season and had he been in charge I don't think we'd have conceded more goals. 

 

The upside to his style of play is his teams score a similar amount of goals than they concede. Both Hull and Wrexham conceded a similar amount of goals this season as ourselves, but scored as many as they conceded. One made the playoffs and will now play PL football, the other missed out on the playoffs by 2 points. 

 

Yes, we were seriously crap at the back last season, but arguably our failing wasn't defending, rather our inability to score goals. 

We scored 58 goals, the 13th highest in the division. Not enough for a team aspiring to be promoted, but a solid mid-table number. We conceded 68 goals, the 2nd worst after Sheffield Wednesday. We kept six clean sheets in 46 games—in the Championship. 
 

Are you seriously trying to suggest that our defence wasn’t our main failing last season? It clearly was, and has been a major problem since the second half of Rodgers’ time in charge. 

Edited Monday at 07:10 by ClaphamFox

[Stadt]

6 hours ago, Vindaloo FOX said:

Not a fan of RM but this is not true,

 

Didn't get sacked at Swansea and MK Dons.

 

He's not who I want but I will give the man a chance, everyone deserves that.

 

He does like giving youth players a chance, this is certainly something we will be needing next season, hopefully he can develop and improve them, but also this is where I have my doubts.

I wasn’t being hyper literal but he was sacked at his last two for being in charge of his club’s worst ever seasons

[trooky]

49 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

Like Cooper? 

 

How many players league 1 standard can play his football well enough to be effective? How many championship players can play it well? Not many. This is the reason this doesn't make any sense. His stats aren't great over a number of years. 

 

Thisan would be a disaster and his football won't work in league 1. We need to be direct robust and that everything Martins 'tactics' are not. 

 

Another short sightedness from board. I hoped with McCarron we would have a wider net to look at potential managers, but if we end up with the usual suspects, nothing has/will change, not a single lesson has been learnt from the last 4/5 years. 

 

Please let it be bull bottom, because that is what it'll be be 

How many teams actually play robust 442 in league 1, I'm not sure it that's many, Cardiff, Bolton or Bradford off the top of my head certainly didn't. 

 

The problem with Martin is he's a terrible people manager, his tactics are inflexible and he refuses to admit he's wrong. 

 

I personally don't see a problem trying to appoint a manager who wants to play decent football, just not Martin

[Leicesterpool]

Fan base already unhappy as it is and they look to appoint an unpopular manager. Once again ignoring the supporters.

Edited Monday at 07:11 by Leicesterpool

[Vindaloo FOX]

57 minutes ago, Lionator said:

One of the issues is that Martin makes it about his style of play, so there’ll always be that disconnection between fans and team. Think the worst excesses of Enzo ball but without the being a good coach thing, which Enzo fortunately was. 
 

At this point we basically need a dog of a manager than likes 4-4-2, can develop youth and can actually put some pride in the badge, even if it’s ugly along the way. 

This, totally agree, also RM has spoken about wanting to never change his style of play, even if it's not working out.

 

He's gonna frustrat the living life out of us.

[ClaphamFox]

10 minutes ago, trooky said:

How many teams actually play robust 442 in league 1, I'm not sure it that's many, Cardiff, Bolton or Bradford off the top of my head certainly didn't. 

 

The problem with Martin is he's a terrible people manager, his tactics are inflexible and he refuses to admit he's wrong. 

 

I personally don't see a problem trying to appoint a manager who wants to play decent football, just not Martin

It’s weird how often this gets misunderstood. There’s nothing wrong with trying to keep the ball—most successful teams do it, including in League One. However, there is clearly something wrong with playing an ultra high-risk form of possession football that demands elite level technical ability from Championship or League One players—and refusing to compromise even when your team is getting stuffed every week. 

[teblin]

 Surely not Russell Martin. 

[damolcfc]

Ee ii ee ii eeii o, up the football league we go

 

You can hear it now

Russell Martins Blue n white army

 

 

🫣

Roll on July 20th when he gets appointed after lengthy discussions 

 

Sacked in January 🤪😉🙃

 

[nnfox]

It's a smokescreen.  Russell Martin's name thrown out there to get fans panicking so that when we announce Rowett, the fans will breath a collective sigh of relief, even though Rowett isn't the answer either.

[trooky]

40 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It’s weird how often this gets misunderstood. There’s nothing wrong with trying to keep the ball—most successful teams do it, including in League One. However, there is clearly something wrong with playing an ultra high-risk form of possession football that demands elite level technical ability from Championship or League One players—and refusing to compromise even when your team is getting stuffed every week. 

Yes a quick check with AI and the only teams playing long ball 442 are Wycombe, Burton, Rotherham, Northampton, Port Vale(352) and Wimbledon. 

 

Only 1 team finished in the top half, 11th the others were bottom half with 3 of them relegated. 

 

Most teams play 433, 4231 or 343, 6 with a slow build up, 3 who got promoted and the other 12 mix it up with a certain directness in getting the ball forward quickly but still try to play decent football. 

Edited Monday at 07:59 by trooky

[filbertway]

I assume it won't happen, but Martin would be so detrimental for the club in the medium term. He absolutely loves weak water carrier types of players. We've finally got somewhat an opportunity to move from the type of player that has seen us relegated 3 times in 4 years. If he was to join and put together a less talented squad of water carriers it'd be so grim.

 

Also his style of football is so cautious yet also carries ridiculous risk with almost no benefit. Aside from football coaches that circle jerk over this odd way of playing football I don't know how your average punter can stomach watching it. Spending 70-80 mins watching your defenders pass the ball to each other has to be the most dull way to kill an hour or two.

[Claudio Fannieri]

My biggest concern with Martin being appointed is that he tries to reintegrate Winks and feel that he can get a tune out of him. 

[Chelmofox]

Just now, Claudio Fannieri said:

My biggest concern with Martin being appointed is that he tries to reintegrate Winks and feel that he can get a tune out of him. 

He will cracking one off right now thinking about Vestergaard. 

[FoxinNotts]

6 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

My biggest concern with Martin being appointed is that he tries to reintegrate Winks and feel that he can get a tune out of him. 

 

5 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

He will cracking one off right now thinking about Vestergaard. 

Surely Winks will not drop down to League one? Surely ? Surely?

 

Vestergaard we're stuck with. Expect him to play a big part in RM fest ffs

[ClaphamFox]

7 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

 

Surely Winks will not drop down to League one? Surely ? Surely?

 

Vestergaard we're stuck with. Expect him to play a big part in RM fest ffs

That will likely depend on whether his relegation clause cuts deep enough to mean he'll make more money elsewhere.

[lcfc_forever]

51 minutes ago, nnfox said:

It's a smokescreen.  Russell Martin's name thrown out there to get fans panicking so that when we announce Rowett, the fans will breath a collective sigh of relief, even though Rowett isn't the answer either.

LOL, you give the club far too much credit for being that Machiavellian. Moronic is a more apt description. 

[daddylonglegs]

1 hour ago, Leicesterpool said:

Fan base already unhappy as it is and they look to appoint an unpopular manager. Once again ignoring the supporters.

I would suggest that a venn diagram of season ticket holders who have given up their ticket & those who are anti Martin is just one circle. 

[HP1]

Darren Ferguson incoming

[DezFox]

Just now, HP1 said:

Darren Ferguson incoming

Source?