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Daggers

Madeleine McCann

By Daggers, in General Chat

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted

Not at all Babs! I was trying to highlight the fact that SY are introducing a new thesis based on burglars returning to the scene. They have been propagating all manner of scenarios except that of the PJ. That's why I also suggested it was unlikely a body or anything else would be found on the scrubland initially searched by hundreds of Portuguese Police at the outset, and consequently doubt burglars or anyone else went back to recover a body.

 

The loose point I was making is that IF Cadaver and DNA from a decomposing body was found in the McCanns hire car three weeks after going missing, why are SY not looking at this thesis?

 

I do find your constant defence of the PJ a little strange.  I'm sure they werent completely crap, but they have certainly failed to find Maddie or the casue of her dissapearance.  Surely a second  set of eyes on the subject to look at alternative theories is a good thing?

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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted

I do find your constant defence of the PJ a little strange.  I'm sure they werent completely crap, but they have certainly failed to find Maddie or the casue of her dissapearance.  Surely a second  set of eyes on the subject to look at alternative theories is a good thing?

Plus if the evidence is so strong... why has nothing come of it?

 

I'm completely open to all possibilities in this case I should state.

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

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Not at all Babs! I was trying to highlight the fact that SY are introducing a new thesis based on burglars returning to the scene. They have been propagating all manner of scenarios except that of the PJ. That's why I also suggested it was unlikely a body or anything else would be found on the scrubland initially searched by hundreds of Portuguese Police at the outset, and consequently doubt burglars or anyone else went back to recover a body.

 

The loose point I was making is that IF Cadaver and DNA from a decomposing body was found in the McCanns hire car three weeks after going missing, why are SY not looking at this thesis?

 

To my mind, there's a pretty good demolition of the "cadaver odour" theory here: http://exposingthemyths.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/analogy-why-cadaver-dogs-are-not.html

 

For a start, assuming the dogs did identify "cadaver odour" and not some similar substance (see link above), then it was only transferred to the hire car 3 weeks after Madeleine disappeared. Assuming that the McCanns didn't recover the 3-week-dead corpse of their daughter and place it in their boot in the full glaze of media/police attention, the odour must have been transferred by one of the parents. As these infallible mutts have yet to sign a statement testifying that the odour was specific to Madeleine, it could just as easily have come from contact with some other dead person....a part of the job for a doctor.

 

People hostile to the McCanns like to concentrate on minor details, like "cadaver odour", not the big picture.

 

Returning to the big picture:

Other witnesses report Madeleine being at an afternoon playscheme and then, a couple of hours later, the McCanns living it up in a tapas bar. So what is your hypothesis?

- Did they plan in advance to kill their daughter in a foreign country, dispose of the body in broad daylight while looking after 2 infants, and then go out to party with their mates? I wonder which one of them came up with the idea and what the response of the other was? Or were they both members of some child-murdering Satanic death cult, despite no evidence of this having been revealed by years of investigation by the police and the media?

- Did one of them accidentally kill their daughter, persuade the other not to call the emergency services (what would you do if your partner had some terrible accident with your child? I'd be frantically trying to save her and calling every emergency service that I could)....and then, as before, despite the surely immense shock/despair, they presumably managed to dispose of the body within 2 hours and go to live it up with their friends without anyone noticing a difference in them?  

- Or are we into the realms of conspiracy theory where, for example, Madeleine was killed earlier, the people running the playscheme were bribed into lying to the police that she'd been there - or their tapas mates and presumably the staff of the tapas bar were covering up for them disposing of the body during the evening?

 

I don't find it unbelievable that someone, including a "respectable" couple like the McCanns, might have killed their kid - but I do find the idea of any of these 3 scenarios completely ridiculous and unbelievable. Enlighten me!

 

In the (to me) almost impossible event that I'm wrong about this and the parents were responsible, I'll gladly come on here and hold my hands up. If the people who go around suggesting that the McCanns killed their daughter are proven to be wrong, I hope they feel deeply, deeply ashamed and write them personal letters of apology. You have to be incredibly sure of yourself to publicly suggest that someone has killed their own child without truly compelling evidence - evidence that has yet to convince British or Portuguese police investigators who know a hell of a lot more about this than us, and who've spent countless hours working on the case.

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted

To my mind, there's a pretty good demolition of the "cadaver odour" theory here: http://exposingthemyths.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/analogy-why-cadaver-dogs-are-not.html

For a start, assuming the dogs did identify "cadaver odour" and not some similar substance (see link above), then it was only transferred to the hire car 3 weeks after Madeleine disappeared. Assuming that the McCanns didn't recover the 3-week-dead corpse of their daughter and place it in their boot in the full glaze of media/police attention, the odour must have been transferred by one of the parents. As these infallible mutts have yet to sign a statement testifying that the odour was specific to Madeleine, it could just as easily have come from contact with some other dead person....a part of the job for a doctor.

People hostile to the McCanns like to concentrate on minor details, like "cadaver odour", not the big picture.

Returning to the big picture:

Other witnesses report Madeleine being at an afternoon playscheme and then, a couple of hours later, the McCanns living it up in a tapas bar. So what is your hypothesis?

- Did they plan in advance to kill their daughter in a foreign country, dispose of the body in broad daylight while looking after 2 infants, and then go out to party with their mates? I wonder which one of them came up with the idea and what the response of the other was? Or were they both members of some child-murdering Satanic death cult, despite no evidence of this having been revealed by years of investigation by the police and the media?

- Did one of them accidentally kill their daughter, persuade the other not to call the emergency services (what would you do if your partner had some terrible accident with your child? I'd be frantically trying to save her and calling every emergency service that I could)....and then, as before, despite the surely immense shock/despair, they presumably managed to dispose of the body within 2 hours and go to live it up with their friends without anyone noticing a difference in them?

- Or are we into the realms of conspiracy theory where, for example, Madeleine was killed earlier, the people running the playscheme were bribed into lying to the police that she'd been there - or their tapas mates and presumably the staff of the tapas bar were covering up for them disposing of the body during the evening?

I don't find it unbelievable that someone, including a "respectable" couple like the McCanns, might have killed their kid - but I do find the idea of any of these 3 scenarios completely ridiculous and unbelievable. Enlighten me!

In the (to me) almost impossible event that I'm wrong about this and the parents were responsible, I'll gladly come on here and hold my hands up. If the people who go around suggesting that the McCanns killed their daughter are proven to be wrong, I hope they feel deeply, deeply ashamed and write them personal letters of apology. You have to be incredibly sure of yourself to publicly suggest that someone has killed their own child without truly compelling evidence - evidence that has yet to convince British or Portuguese police investigators who know a hell of a lot more about this than us, and w

ho've spent countless hours working on the case.

The voice of reason, as ever.

You are my favourite poster, by a country mile, Alf.

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Mike Oxlong

Mike Oxlong

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Posted

To my mind, there's a pretty good demolition of the "cadaver odour" theory here: http://exposingthemyths.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/analogy-why-cadaver-dogs-are-not.html

 

For a start, assuming the dogs did identify "cadaver odour" and not some similar substance (see link above), then it was only transferred to the hire car 3 weeks after Madeleine disappeared. Assuming that the McCanns didn't recover the 3-week-dead corpse of their daughter and place it in their boot in the full glaze of media/police attention, the odour must have been transferred by one of the parents. As these infallible mutts have yet to sign a statement testifying that the odour was specific to Madeleine, it could just as easily have come from contact with some other dead person....a part of the job for a doctor.

 

People hostile to the McCanns like to concentrate on minor details, like "cadaver odour", not the big picture.

 

Returning to the big picture:

Other witnesses report Madeleine being at an afternoon playscheme and then, a couple of hours later, the McCanns living it up in a tapas bar. So what is your hypothesis?

- Did they plan in advance to kill their daughter in a foreign country, dispose of the body in broad daylight while looking after 2 infants, and then go out to party with their mates? I wonder which one of them came up with the idea and what the response of the other was? Or were they both members of some child-murdering Satanic death cult, despite no evidence of this having been revealed by years of investigation by the police and the media?

- Did one of them accidentally kill their daughter, persuade the other not to call the emergency services (what would you do if your partner had some terrible accident with your child? I'd be frantically trying to save her and calling every emergency service that I could)....and then, as before, despite the surely immense shock/despair, they presumably managed to dispose of the body within 2 hours and go to live it up with their friends without anyone noticing a difference in them?  

- Or are we into the realms of conspiracy theory where, for example, Madeleine was killed earlier, the people running the playscheme were bribed into lying to the police that she'd been there - or their tapas mates and presumably the staff of the tapas bar were covering up for them disposing of the body during the evening?

 

I don't find it unbelievable that someone, including a "respectable" couple like the McCanns, might have killed their kid - but I do find the idea of any of these 3 scenarios completely ridiculous and unbelievable. Enlighten me!

 

In the (to me) almost impossible event that I'm wrong about this and the parents were responsible, I'll gladly come on here and hold my hands up. If the people who go around suggesting that the McCanns killed their daughter are proven to be wrong, I hope they feel deeply, deeply ashamed and write them personal letters of apology. You have to be incredibly sure of yourself to publicly suggest that someone has killed their own child without truly compelling evidence - evidence that has yet to convince British or Portuguese police investigators who know a hell of a lot more about this than us, and who've spent countless hours working on the case.

Sorry Alf, normally like your posts but this one's a bit over the top IMO.

Personal letters to the McCanns - Pffft !!!!

I think that there's enough in the public domain to reasonably form an opinion either way.

For what it's worth I don't believe that they killed their daughter. Had they done so I don't think they would have raised the alarm until the next morning giving them the whole night to clean up and dispose of the body. It would have also got them off the hook for not properly supervising Maddie as they could have said that she was safely asleep on their return from the Tapas bar. That said, for two intelligent people in a profession of care it is staggering that they were content to leave their children as they did. I'm sure that must be hard for them now but they put their own needs first that evening and failed in their exercise of proper parental responsibility.

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted

Sorry Alf, normally like your posts but this one's a bit over the top IMO.

Personal letters to the McCanns - Pffft !!!!

I think that there's enough in the public domain to reasonably form an opinion either way.

For what it's worth I don't believe that they killed their daughter. Had they done so I don't think they would have raised the alarm until the next morning giving them the whole night to clean up and dispose of the body. It would have also got them off the hook for not properly supervising Maddie as they could have said that she was safely asleep on their return from the Tapas bar. That said, for two intelligent people in a profession of care it is staggering that they were content to leave their children as they did. I'm sure that must be hard for them now but they put their own needs first that evening and failed in their exercise of proper parental responsibility.

 

The Buce love-in didn't last long before the backlash, did it?!  lol

 

Fair enough, writing a personal letter is probably OTT, but I'd certainly feel very ashamed if I'd accused someone of something so serious without compelling evidence and it turned out that I'd got it wrong.

 

OK, so the McCanns aren't likely to see any post on here (though you never know, being local), but they'll be well aware of the suspicion, sometimes even hatred that some people feel for them. What must that feel like, knowing that something terrible has happened to their daughter, knowing that they didn't do it (I assume), knowing that their major misjudgment over supervision was a factor...and knowing that some people assume that they murdered their own daughter, based on what? A superficial dislike of them? Disapproval of a childcare decision? Questionable sniffer dog evidence? An inconclusive Portuguese police investigation? A load of dodgy internet/tabloid rumours?

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Mike Oxlong

Mike Oxlong

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Posted

The Buce love-in didn't last long before the backlash, did it?! lol

Fair enough, writing a personal letter is probably OTT, but I'd certainly feel very ashamed if I'd accused someone of something so serious without compelling evidence and it turned out that I'd got it wrong.

OK, so the McCanns aren't likely to see any post on here (though you never know, being local), but they'll be well aware of the suspicion, sometimes even hatred that some people feel for them. What must that feel like, knowing that something terrible has happened to their daughter, knowing that they didn't do it (I assume), knowing that their major misjudgment over supervision was a factor...and knowing that some people assume that they murdered their own daughter, based on what? A superficial dislike of them? Disapproval of a childcare decision? Questionable sniffer dog evidence? An inconclusive Portuguese police investigation? A load of dodgy internet/tabloid rumours?

But almost inevitable that they would at sometime fall under investigation given their own actions that evening coupled with inconsistencies in accounts given to the police from the group re the events of that evening. I recall myself thinking that Kate's presentation struck me as odd but perhaps she was in shock and people may react differently to the same event.

But overall it's hardly a surprise that there are those who question whether they know more than they have let on. After all, we do live in a tabloid, social media driven, tittle-tattle society where everyone's business is our business.

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l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm sure someone would have broken ranks by now if there was a cover up. The pressure would be too much to live with. They made a big mistake leaving the kids and have paid the ultimate price. Nothin they read here will come close to that pain

 

What pressure JimmyWillis? The Tapas crew flatly refused to do a reconstruction for the PJ or go back to Portugal to answer questions to explain why their timeline is shot to bits with inaccuracies! Nobody in England gives them any pressure either as the McCanns lawyers have silenced the media. 

Edited by l444ry
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Webbo

Webbo

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Posted

What pressure JimmyWillis? The Tapas crew flatly refused to do a reconstruction for the PJ or go back to Portugal to answer questions to explain why their timeline is shot to bits with inaccuracies! Nobody in England gives them any pressure either as the McCanns lawyers have silenced the media. 

Silenced the media? It was in the news all last week. Do you mean their lawyers have threatened to sue anyone who accuses them of murder without a shred of evidence?If so that's perfectly normal and understandable.

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MPH

MPH

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Posted (edited)

These questions are loaded and favorable to make them sound damning but carry no evidence just someone's opinion. A supporter of the McCanns could get their own 100 questions to support the abduction theory and phrase them to be as equally damning.

Edited by MPH
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l444ry

l444ry

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Posted (edited)

Silenced the media? It was in the news all last week. Do you mean their lawyers have threatened to sue anyone who accuses them of murder without a shred of evidence?If so that's perfectly normal and understandable.

 

Not what I said Webbo. Accusing someone of murder without evidence should be stopped but if you do some research you'll find the Madeleine Fund was used to shut down all views that opposed their abduction theory, including national newspapers. Last weeks coverage, as you put it, was servile to the point of nauseous. Scotland Yard have used £10million and taken 4 years to come to the same conclusion as the PJ.

Edited by l444ry
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Webbo

Webbo

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Posted

Not what I said Webbo. Accusing someone of murder without evidence should be stopped but if you do some research you'll find the Madeleine Fund was used to shut down all views that opposed their abduction theory, including national newspapers. Last weeks coverage, as you put it, was servile to the point of nauseous. Scotland Yard have used £10million and taken 4 years to come to the same conclusion as the PJ.

What conclusion is that?

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l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's an open and shut case then, so why haven't they been charged?

 

Same answer I gave you earlier. They need a body to add to the dogs DNA and Cadaver evidence. DNA as evidence in Portuguese law is stricter than in Britain.  

Edited by l444ry
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Webbo

Webbo

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Posted

Same answer I gave you earlier. They need a body to add to the dogs DNA and Cadaver evidence. DNA as evidence in Portuguese law is stricter than in Britain.  

In other words there is no evidence. If it was as certain as you say the papers would say they were guilty and dare them to sue.

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