What grinds my gears...

[Guest MattP]

10 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

How is the uni debt argument bullshit? What's better, having no debt, or having a large amount of debt that you have to pay interest on and is tied to your income? The idea that's it ok cos you can just avoid paying it back by dodging work or not trying to make something of yourself is insane . 

It's not a debt - that's my point. If you don't pay a debt back you'll be forced to do so.

 

It's effectively a graduate tax and should be talked about as such.

 

5 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

We are better off in so many different ways, but to write off the difficulties we face is ignorant. 

But i will disagree on uni debt being bullshit. Yes, I won't pay off my debt unless I earn a decent wage, but the 3 years (and this year) i live off sh1t all due to the system put into place. 

 

You've listed the ways we're better off, but ignored how we're worse. 

Mental health has rocketed for our age group, to name one. 

 

You can't fully compare how "well off" each generation was due to how different circumstances are for both.

I very much doubt people struggling with issues like this are recent phenomenon, it may have increased with the increase if social media but I'd imagine those mental health issues were always there and people suffered in silence.

 

No we have no stigma, help widely available and medication to treat it.

 

So again, that's something you can deal with better than previous generations. 

[UniFox21]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

It's not a debt - that's my point. If you don't pay a debt back you'll be forced to do so.

 

It's effectively a graduate tax and should be talked about as such.

 

I very much doubt people struggling with issues like this are recent phenomenon, it may have increased with the increase if social media but I'd imagine those mental health issues were always there and people suffered in silence.

 

No we have no stigma, help widely available and medication to treat it.

 

So again, that's something you can deal with better than previous generations. 

Help isn't widely available, it takes stupid amounts of time to get to the people you need to talk to. The medication we hope treats it, but no idea on the long term affects of having the medication.

 

Stigma is still there, it's reducing but by no means is it not a thing anymore. People regularly still suffer in silence now, just as there's increased awareness doesn't mean we have it easier.

 

Do you have a student debt btw? As it doesn't feel like a "graduate tax" to me and I'm 40k in debt with another year to go. Yes it isn't forced to be repayed, if it was you'd have hundreds of thousands of people in huge debt issues on top of what there already is. The system is flawed whichever way you look about it.

[Finnegan]

You can call it a graduate tax or a loan or whatever the **** else, I'm still paying it out of every paycheck. 

[Kopfkino]

26 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

It's not made up though is it? The data demonstrates it. Sharp increase in housing and living costs and depression in wage growth. The current generation has less disposable income than their parents - it's not some paranoid fantasy. And it has an impact on people.

 

I didn't dispute the data but you can analyse data in different ways - that past generations worked manual jobs that paid more earlier but flatter over time whereas millennial doing 'professional' jobs where pay is less flat over time. Could explain some income disparity for example. But it's a sad world that measures being better or worse off solely in absolute money and wealth terms (especially when living standards are already so high), rather than say opportunity. Education - far more have the opportunity to go to university now; educational options are far better than they were; there is, comparatively, a wealth of opportunity to learn new skills; the opportunity to go abroad to study is far greater than it was. 

 

29 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Uh... what? 

 

The fact that technology is cheaper now and "we've all got mobile phones" is a product of technology becoming cheaper over time, not the fact everyone's better off now. 

 

It was easier and cheaper for Boomers to do basically everything relative to their kids today, most importantly getting an education and buying property which can't be sniffed at all given its the very foundation of most people's life and the economics they build everything else around. 

 

So technology being cheaper over time doesn't mean people are better off? But yet education and property being more expensive makes us worse off. Seems a bit of an imbalance in logic there. That many of us can get a 70s supercomputer in our pocket and all that can do for us (arguably cuts the cost of education hugely) makes us better off by your definition of being better off surely? Because it makes things far easier and therefore cheaper than they ever had it. 

[Kopfkino]

7 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

 

Do you have a student debt btw? As it doesn't feel like a "graduate tax" to me and I'm 40k in debt with another year to go. Yes it isn't forced to be repayed, if it was you'd have hundreds of thousands of people in huge debt issues on top of what there already is. The system is flawed whichever way you look about it.

 

How can it not feel like a graduate tax. You pay 9% of what you earn over 25k. Find me any other kind of debt that you only pay back when you earn a certain amount, does not affect your credit rating or ability to get credit, and is waived after 30 years if you haven't paid it back. It in no way acts as a debt and is just poorly marketed tax. 

[Guest MattP]

11 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Do you have a student debt btw? As it doesn't feel like a "graduate tax" to me and I'm 40k in debt with another year to go. Yes it isn't forced to be repayed, if it was you'd have hundreds of thousands of people in huge debt issues on top of what there already is. The system is flawed whichever way you look about it.

 

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

You can call it a graduate tax or a loan or whatever the **** else, I'm still paying it out of every paycheck. 

No, I went to Uni for a very small period of time before realising what I was doing wasn't really going to help me that much.

 

The fact it comes out the paycheck shows exactly why it is a tax rather than a debt, if you lose your job you won't have baliffs knocking on the door collecting what you owe. It won't affect your personal credit rating. It won't harm you on trying to borrow later it life. "Student debt" is just cheap populist rhetoric. 

 

Unless you can provide any other example of a "debt" that is possible not to pay back with no repercussions? 

[Finnegan]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

No, I went to Uni for a very small period of time before realising what I was doing wasn't really going to help me that much.

 

The fact it comes out the paycheck shows exactly why it is a tax rather than a debt, if you lose your job you won't have baliffs knocking on the door collecting what you owe. It won't affect your personal credit rating. It won't harm you on trying to borrow later it life. "Student debt" is just cheap populist rhetoric. 

 

Unless you can provide any other example of a "debt" that is possible not to pay back with no repercussions? 

 

It's money that's coming out of my paycheck for my education that previous generations didn't have to pay. 

 

... Why is the semantics of what exactly we call that the headline to you? 

 

And what exactly about that is populist rhetoric? 

 

Strikes me that you're clutching at straws m, which you don't normally have to do, Matt, you've usually got a good response even when I don't agree with it. The fact you're resorting to picking on what exactly we call the travesty of charging kids **** tonnes for their education kinda shows that even you can't really justify it. 

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Finnegan said:

It's money that's coming out of my paycheck for my education that previous generations didn't have to pay. 

 

... Why is the semantics of what exactly we call that the headline to you? 

 

And what exactly about that is populist rhetoric? 

 

Strikes me that you're clutching at straws m, which you don't normally have to do, Matt, you've usually got a good response even when I don't agree with it. The fact you're resorting to picking on what exactly we call the travesty of charging kids **** tonnes for their education kinda shows that even you can't really justify it. 

It's populist rhetoric to politicians trying to grab the votes of young people. The previous generations actually did pay for their education, they paid for it through taxation rather than taking on the debt in the way you have. The courses aren't free. Nothing is free. I actually think this system is far better than general taxation on the whole population.

 

Why should shelf stackers at Tesco pay for Jacob Rees-Mogg's children to do economics at Cambridge after they have already been to Eton?

 

Look at the social mobility this has achieved as well, compare England and Wales to Scotland. We have far more people now from underprivileged backgrounds going to Uni than them - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36392857

[ScouseFox]

cheap transport  

 

it costs about 2 weeks wages for a part time worker to get from liverpool to leeds 

[Guest MattP]

54 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

cheap transport  

 

it costs about 2 weeks wages for a part time worker to get from liverpool to leeds 

Think how much that will be when have the technology to float Liverpool back to Ireland. 

[ScouseFox]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Think how much that will be when have the technology to float Liverpool back to Ireland. 

it’d fu cking shit loads cheaper cos you could fly and not be fleeced by bad gimps who run train companies 

 

good point though  

Edited 21 September 2018 by ScouseFox

[Izzy]

7 hours ago, StanSP said:

Seeing this kind of shit properly angers me 

 

Compared to this that I saw posted on LinkedIn today.

 

This guy at Lanseria Airport in SA probably gets paid less than half the Manchester bag handlers yet look at the care he takes to make sure the handle on each suitcase is facing forward to make it easier for customers so they can grab and go. 

 

 

[Webbo]

8 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

cheap transport  

 

it costs about 2 weeks wages for a part time worker to get from liverpool to leeds 

Worth every penny.

[Strokes]

14 minutes ago, Webbo said:

penny.

That’s how much extra the return is.

[ajthefox]

I know you're all joking but have any of you actually been to Liverpool recently? It's a far better city than Leicester. 

[Izzy]

Watching my lads U9 football team get battered every week and not being allowed to 'coach' from the sidelines.

 

I get the reason why and the kids don't need confusing messages at this age, but it's annoying when their manager hasn't got a fvckin clue was he's doing.

 

He spent more time on his phone than he did watching the game and the kids had no direction or organisation - pathetic to watch.

 

I went over afterwards and offered to help out on-going this season but I think he thought I was invading his turf a bit. The other parents are also getting pissed off to so I think we might plan some sort of management takeover or military coup between us 

[ozleicester]

25 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Watching my lads U9 football team get battered every week and not being allowed to 'coach' from the sidelines.

 

I get the reason why and the kids don't need confusing messages at this age, but it's annoying when their manager hasn't got a fvckin clue was he's doing.

 

He spent more time on his phone than he did watching the game and the kids had no direction or organisation - pathetic to watch.

 

I went over afterwards and offered to help out on-going this season but I think he thought I was invading his turf a bit. The other parents are also getting pissed off to so I think we might plan some sort of management takeover or military coup between us 

"Insert managers name here" Out!

[Wymsey]

2 hours ago, ajthefox said:

I know you're all joking but have any of you actually been to Liverpool recently? It's a far better city than Leicester. 

The people over there are more welcoming and friendly, as well.

Edited 22 September 2018 by Wymeswold fox

[Nalis]

12.5% service charges in a restaurant. 

 

Who the fvck decided to increase it from 10% as 12.5% is being the norm in a lot of places? Where is it going to stop, 20 or 30%??

 

10% is reasonable, which I pay if the service is decent, but it  should never be added to the bill automatically, which again is a sad common occurence.

 

[Jon the Hat]

On 21/09/2018 at 14:22, ScouseFox said:

cheap transport  

 

it costs about 2 weeks wages for a part time worker to get from liverpool to leeds 

I’m sure there is a bus or advance ticket a lot cheaper.

[ozleicester]

2 hours ago, Nalis said:

12.5% service charges in a restaurant. 

 

Who the fvck decided to increase it from 10% as 12.5% is being the norm in a lot of places? Where is it going to stop, 20 or 30%??

 

10% is reasonable, which I pay if the service is decent, but it  should never be added to the bill automatically, which again is a sad common occurence.

 

Whats a service charge? is this like the corking fee for BYO's......... or is it like a tip system?

[Nalis]

27 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Whats a service charge? is this like the corking fee for BYO's......... or is it like a tip system?

Tip system

[ozleicester]

2 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Tip system

**** that shit... Why isnt the employer paying proper wages.

[Nalis]

4 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

**** that shit... Why isnt the employer paying proper wages.

Yeah I know, ridiculous system that has somehow became the norm in the UK.

[ozleicester]

We heard a little bit about the Panama papers.... but do you remember the Paradise Papers?

 

The Queen, Michael Ashcroft and Farhad Moshiri, owner of Everton Football Club. Lewis Hamilton

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Papers

 

Consider my gears ground