Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 We're 9/2 7th in the list to go down. The bookies don't think we're going to go down. Our price last year never reflected our points/position imo, I think the shortest we were was 1/7 when to any normal man we'd of looked like 1/100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishOxide Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Dont forget we beat United 5-3 at home that must mean we are on the road to Champs league football next season? Basing how good you are relative to other teams over 2 games and 1 season makes zero sense Burnley beat Man city Away and got relegated, get the point? It's you who seems to have missed my point. Foreign players don't choose Stoke because it's more glamourous than Leicester. Most players simply want to play in the 'Premier League'. With Cambiasso, Kramaric and now Fuchs in my opinion we are just as attractive to players as any other mid table team (note I didn't say more attractive). Somebody said we weren't in the same bracket as other mid table teams and I disputed that with results against those teams. For me you can split the table up as such... Relegation battlers Mid table teams Teams pushing for Europe Teams pushing for the title. I expect us to stay out of the relegation fight this season considering we have strengthened, and Cambiasso not withstanding, have not lost anybody. I like what Mark Hughes has done with Stoke, but I don't think anybody expects them to challenge Liverpool, Spurs and Southampton for the Europa League. That puts them into the same mid table catagory as us I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tielemans63 Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 (edited) For me you can split the table up as such... Relegation battlers Mid table teams Teams pushing for Europe Teams pushing for the title. I expect us to stay out of the relegation fight this season considering we have strengthened, and Cambiasso not withstanding, have not lost anybody. I see what you're saying but by your own definition they are currently a class above us as they were solid top 10 and we were relegation battlers - hence they are better than us at the moment.I don't think we'll have the same problems next season either but we don't know that until happens. The fact is that they're currently a bit stronger and that's not to diminish our club in any way. Just think we need to be realistic, it's not out of the question that we might struggle next season. Edited 25 June 2015 by Paddy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 It's you who seems to have missed my point. Foreign players don't choose Stoke because it's more glamourous than Leicester. Most players simply want to play in the 'Premier League'. With Cambiasso, Kramaric and now Fuchs in my opinion we are just as attractive to players as any other mid table team (note I didn't say more attractive). Somebody said we weren't in the same bracket as other mid table teams and I disputed that with results against those teams. For me you can split the table up as such... Relegation battlers Mid table teams Teams pushing for Europe Teams pushing for the title. I expect us to stay out of the relegation fight this season considering we have strengthened, and Cambiasso not withstanding, have not lost anybody. I like what Mark Hughes has done with Stoke, but I don't think anybody expects them to challenge Liverpool, Spurs and Southampton for the Europa League. That puts them into the same mid table catagory as us I think. I would class us as "relegation battlers" still, rather than solid mid-table! I don't think we're going to be clear of the relegation scrap this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 I think people are overestimating mid table Premiership clubs. There are the Champions League contenders. There are the newly promoted sides. Then there is the rest. At the moment we are 'the rest'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 http://www.redcafe.net/threads/afc-bournemouth-transfers.405880/page-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Thread about Bournemouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylofox Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 It would be a step down for Nzonzi, no question. He's 26 and POTY for a club that finished 9th. He wants Champions League football and to break into the France team for the 2016 Euros. Why would he sign a 4 year deal at Leicester and give his best years to a team that will probably do no better in that time than what Stoke are doing now? In The Sun today Stoke want to sign Shaqiri. He's 23 a Swiss international and played 52 games for Bayern Munich. We would have no chance of signing someone like him so why would Nzonzi leave to go to a lesser team? Nzonzi's level is probably a first team player for Liverpool or Spurs. He'll either get the move he wants or run his contract down and move on a free in a year. The only way he'd come here is if we threw a ridiculous amount of money at him and that's not going to happen. Not picking on you Gerard But am I the only one that thinks this is fishy. We want Huth and they knew that. The same day we agree it we put in an offer for Nzonzi. How about this Stoke know he wants out with a year left and want as much as possible. LCFC we will offer 3m for Huth Stoke we want 5m LCFC ok how about 3m with 1m add on Stoke one condition to that offer and he is your's LCFC ok what is it? Stoke you put in a 7m offer for Nzonzi that we refuse. We know he's off and want to inflate his price. LCFC Deal do yo want to leak it or do you want us too? Stoke Who gives a fvck just sign on the dotted line and TY for your business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Not picking on you Gerard But am I the only one that thinks this is fishy. We want Huth and they knew that. The same day we agree it we put in an offer for Nzonzi. How about this Stoke know he wants out with a year left and want as much as possible. LCFC we will offer 3m for Huth Stoke we want 5m LCFC ok how about 3m with 1m add on Stoke one condition to that offer and he is your's LCFC ok what is it? Stoke you put in a 7m offer for Nzonzi that we refuse. We know he's off and want to inflate his price. LCFC Deal do yo want to leak it or do you want us too? Stoke Who gives a fvck just sign on the dotted line and TY for your business. . I like your style. You should be an agent mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagworthblue Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 Thread about Bournemouth? talking about Leicester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 I would be suprised if the management/owners of all but around 6 clubs don't start the season worrying about relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylofox Posted 25 June 2015 Share Posted 25 June 2015 . I like your style. You should be an agent mate But not impossible. Think back to last summer Ulloa bid stalling we put in a bid for Deeney. Next thing Ulloa deal is sorted but we never went back in for Deeney. Dirty tricks are not only for agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 But not impossible. Think back to last summer Ulloa bid stalling we put in a bid for Deeney. Next thing Ulloa deal is sorted but we never went back in for Deeney. Dirty tricks are not only for agents. There's a massive difference between having multiple irons in the fire for our own benefit, and putting one in to help someone else. What you're suggesting is we bid for N'zonzi to drive the price up for Sevilla, rather than bidding on him to try and force a decision by Caens over Kante. The latter is possible, the former is absurd - why would we care, and no deal is going to include "you bid for this guy to get his price up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freesolo Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 (edited) It's you who seems to have missed my point. Foreign players don't choose Stoke because it's more glamourous than Leicester. Most players simply want to play in the 'Premier League'. With Cambiasso, Kramaric and now Fuchs in my opinion we are just as attractive to players as any other mid table team (note I didn't say more attractive). Somebody said we weren't in the same bracket as other mid table teams and I disputed that with results against those teams. For me you can split the table up as such... Relegation battlers Mid table teams Teams pushing for Europe Teams pushing for the title. I expect us to stay out of the relegation fight this season considering we have strengthened, and Cambiasso not withstanding, have not lost anybody. I like what Mark Hughes has done with Stoke, but I don't think anybody expects them to challenge Liverpool, Spurs and Southampton for the Europa League. That puts them into the same mid table catagory as us I think. What I am saying is that the teams you beat over one season is not a indicator of how good you are and doesn't put you into one of the little groups that you have created. The total sum of points at the end of the season tells you what type of team you are. Edited 26 June 2015 by Freesolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 No not much between 8-18th lol heads gone. Id be happy just to stay up again. 18 points. To put that into perspective. We made 22 points from our last 9 games of the season. But yeah, i'm the silly one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 18 points. To put that into perspective. We made 22 points from our last 9 games of the season. But yeah, i'm the silly one In a title form run, 18 points extra over a season is a pretty big ask that is going to take seasons of building to manage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingcarr21 Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 Most (fans and pundits) considered us to be unlucky to be bottom for so long. If we had a fair rub of the green in terms of refereeing decisions and unlucky own goals we may have been 4-8 points better off. With Fuchs, Kramaric, Cambiasso and Huth in from the start with a full pre-season under their belts and the rest of the squad with a seasons experience we are in a much stronger position. vs Stoke we won one and lost one vs West Ham we won one and lost one. vs Swansea we won one (destroyed them whilst they were aiming for Europe) and lost one vs Everton we got two draws But we are not in the same bracket, yeah? Alright mate. Quite possibly the most moronic thing ive read on FT. We beat Man Utd and lost aswel. Guess were in the same bracket as them? If you base your football logic so low your brain must be the size of a peanut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam95581 Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 Most (fans and pundits) considered us to be unlucky to be bottom for so long. If we had a fair rub of the green in terms of refereeing decisions and unlucky own goals we may have been 4-8 points better off. With Fuchs, Kramaric, Cambiasso and Huth in from the start with a full pre-season under their belts and the rest of the squad with a seasons experience we are in a much stronger position. vs Stoke we won one and lost one vs West Ham we won one and lost one. vs Swansea we won one (destroyed them whilst they were aiming for Europe) and lost one vs Everton we got two draws But we are not in the same bracket, yeah? Alright mate. No. We're not in the same bracket at all. By your logic we beat Man U and drew with Arsenal so we should be playing Champions League Football right? Beating a team once in a season doesn't equate to being a mid-table side consistently for 3/4 seasons and if you can't see that then there really isn't much point in having this debate. For what it's worth I think we will be in the same bracket as the aforementioned teams before too long but one season in which we survived thanks to an unprecedented run doesn't put us there yet. We need a sustained period of success and safety before we can do that. Come on...admit you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 I think people are overestimating mid table Premiership clubs. There are the Champions League contenders. There are the newly promoted sides. Then there is the rest. At the moment we are 'the rest'. That pretty much sums it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseFox Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 I think people are overestimating mid table Premiership clubs. There are the Champions League contenders. There are the newly promoted sides. Then there is the rest. At the moment we are 'the rest'. I think that's a bit harsh. There's probably "champions league contenders", "newly promoted sides" and then "top half" and "bottom half" imo. Southampton, Swansea, Stoke and Everton are in category "top half" and are/will be consistently a lot better than the likes of us, west brom, sunderland etc. who would be "bottom half" teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 In a title form run, 18 points extra over a season is a pretty big ask that is going to take seasons of building to manage If we can manage title winning form then surely mid-table form is more than do-able? 50 odd points isn't an outlandish target. Anyone that thinks it is so pessimistic it hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 It's a realistic target but what it has the danger of doing is applying loads of pressure when the fans will inevitably confuse a target with expectation. We could very well be in a relegation fight this year, I'm hoping we're not but if we are I won't be all doom and gloom, Nigel out, scapegoating players etc on here like I imagine 90% of posters will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 18 points. To put that into perspective. We made 22 points from our last 9 games of the season. But yeah, i'm the silly one As well as Stoke losing every game in that time, as well as ignoring the fact it's a freak run that we'd do well to replicate if we spent another five years in this division. You have gotten utterly carried away. 20 points is enormous in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 I think that's a bit harsh. There's probably "champions league contenders", "newly promoted sides" and then "top half" and "bottom half" imo. Southampton, Swansea, Stoke and Everton are in category "top half" and are/will be consistently a lot better than the likes of us, west brom, sunderland etc. who would be "bottom half" teams. Agreed. I'd say Newcastle, Villa, West Brom, Palace & Sunderland is our category at the minute - potential trap door teams should the promoted sides perform. I do however believe over time we can elevate ourselves into the Stoke, Swansea, Southampton category but we aren't at that level yet and anyone thinking we are is deluded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishOxide Posted 26 June 2015 Share Posted 26 June 2015 I do however believe over time we can elevate ourselves into the Stoke, Swansea, Southampton category but we aren't at that level yet and anyone thinking we are is deluded If you are referring to me, my wider point was that the lure for players is playing in the 'Premier League' to attract the interest of bigger teams. Stoke are not in Europe and aren't expected to get there just as much as we weren't relegated and aren't expected to be this season either. Thats why, IMO, the N'Zonzi move wouldn't be a downwards step but a sideways step. I don't know why everyone is losing their shit over it. 16th - 9th is nowhere in terms of player ambition. Its like two spastics arguing who is less disabled. No. We're not in the same bracket at all. By your logic we beat Man U and drew with Arsenal so we should be playing Champions League Football right? Beating a team once in a season doesn't equate to being a mid-table side consistently for 3/4 seasons and if you can't see that then there really isn't much point in having this debate. For what it's worth I think we will be in the same bracket as the aforementioned teams before too long but one season in which we survived thanks to an unprecedented run doesn't put us there yet. We need a sustained period of success and safety before we can do that. Come on...admit you're wrong. I'm not wrong at all. You may disagree with my viewpoint but my comparison of results of the teams 'not in our bracket' obviously makes little sense when taken out of context in relation to the argument I was making. If we use logic alone then we could say Athletico Madrid are a more attractive prospect than Real Madrid and Barcelona because they finished above them a couple of seasons ago. Which obviously isn't the case. Being a mid table side for 3 seasons is worth no more than being a mid table side for 1 season. I like how the majority of our fans are calling our winning run unprecedented and lucky, as if our losing run wasn't also unprecedented and unlucky. Quite possibly the most moronic thing ive read on FT. We beat Man Utd and lost aswel. Guess were in the same bracket as them? If you base your football logic so low your brain must be the size of a peanut. **** off son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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