Cardiff (away) Cup Match Thread.

[MC Prussian]

Other fans have expressed the same sentiment and that sums up the first and biggest problem in our club - we're not winners. Until we start to hate losing everything from the toss onwards we're going to be doing this.

And please don't think I'm making more of this than matters. It's an attitude of mind and you've always got problems if you're thinking about the match in front of the one you're playing. We should hate to lose any match (we even threw the Academy title away last season) but if you leave your only goalscoring central midfield on the bench you're going to be firing on less than all cylinders.

As for missing penalties everyone does it but that's no excuse. It's sloppiness and another sign of not attending to detail. Fernandes? When does he ever score? Rarely - just seven goals in 209 league appearances since 2004 and 9 goals in 247 games all told. It's appalling. So why have him on the field when penalties are looming and people like King are sitting on the bench?

As for the defeat last night somehow giving us the additional boost of revenge it can just as easily be argued that it will give Cardiff a boost of confidence. It actually has nothing to do with Sunday. We didn't want it enough and have got what we deserved. It's all about attitude and we didn't have it. Which is exactly why we're where we are in the League table.

And, once again we conceded two goals. Is it ever going to end?

We've been good enough to beat the two table-topping teams in our division but not the also rans. And so it was again tonight. And some of our fans are not bothered. Well, when that attitude changes among both our players and our fans, we'll start winning things.

We lose on penalties in the Carling Cup and Thracian starts talking out of his negative backside again.

a) We are winners - but obviously not as big as you want the team to be (otherwise, we would've lost more games than won)

b) Central (defensive) midfielders don't have to be goalscoring machines

c) Talking about attitude issues for the Sunday game? We deserve to be in 9th with a mediocre start, Cardiff are only one (read: 1) point away in the league - MASSIVE difference, yeah (of course, you'll then divert the topic and start talking about the goal difference - after only SEVEN games played)

d) We kept a clean sheet in the last league game - don't make it look like our defense is worse than you want it

[The Doctor]

Fernandes? When does he ever score? Rarely - just seven goals in 209 league appearances since 2004 and 9 goals in 247 games all told. It's appalling. So why have him on the field when penalties are looming and people like King are sitting on the bench?.

You talk out of your ass so often - being a good goalscorer in normal play does not make you a good penalty taker.

Yuki Abe has scored 52 goals in 375 games, hardly a brilliant goalscorer, yet he put away the penalty when asked did he not?

[Callabinho]

With ten changes to the side I'm not at all surprised that it came to what it did, I'm pleased with last nights display! Both Johnson and ball got through 90mins which is good, jeff had a chance to test himself against a decent defence, Howard got his first run out of the season, St.Ledger & Mills looked a good pairing at the back! All in all a decent run out for the lads! The serious stuff starts on Sunday!

[General Smuts]

Any reason why St Ledger took a penalty and Ball didn't?

[The Doctor]

Any reason why St Ledger took a penalty and Ball didn't?

'Choo talking bout? Ball was involved in all 14 penalties.

[Fox92]

The only tonic, in my eyes, is to beat them on Sunday.

[HEGGSY]

I would rather take 3 points in the league but obviously it would of been nice to win last night. But to be honest a win on sunday and people will forget about last night

[Thracian]

"I'm delighted we're out and further delighted we've at least gone out in a dignified manner."

Allows me to rest my case without another word.

[acooling08]

Thracian we all would like a Cup Run for sure, but you have to give priority to the League. If we manage promotion this season and can establish ourselves in the Premiership like say Stoke have done, then surely we will be much more capable of winning cups then.

[Bert]

Stop taking out your arse man?

Do you not think Cardiff would have had scouts at the Brighton game? McKay will know exactly what Beckford is capable of you dimwit and playing him tonight would have

made no difference to that!

Just ridiculous....

You're a clown.

[davieG]

I'd prefer for us still to be in it if for nothing else but to give the 'second teamers' some competitive football if that was how we were planning to approach this competition as it would have minimal impact on the fitness of the 'first team' but would also have a positive influence on the clubs owners, management, players and fans.

i can't find a way to justify losing.

[Thracian]

We lose on penalties in the Carling Cup and Thracian starts talking out of his negative backside again.

a) We are winners - but obviously not as big as you want the team to be (otherwise, we would've lost more games than won)

b) Central (defensive) midfielders don't have to be goalscoring machines

c) Talking about attitude issues for the Sunday game? We deserve to be in 9th with a mediocre start, Cardiff are only one (read: 1) point away in the league - MASSIVE difference, yeah (of course, you'll then divert the topic and start talking about the goal difference - after only SEVEN games played)

d) We kept a clean sheet in the last league game - don't make it look like our defense is worse than you want it

a) When have we been winners in the last decade and more? And don't expect me to count climbing back from a level we'd never previously dropped to?

b) We have a natural goalscoring midfielder on the bench (who had considerable influence on the last League Cup game) with penalties approaching and we chose to bring on a bloke who so rarely scores, who doesn't even defend as well as King and who clearly can't take a penalty either. On exactly what basis would you make that decision?

c) Yes, we're both underperforming by the standards we're supposed to be setting.

d) Yes, I watched our clean sheet against Brighton and it pleased me. But it didn't blind me to the fact that Mills kept giving the ball away. Nor did it hide the fact that apart from Brighton and Coventry we've leaked goals at approaching two a game. You may be happy with that sort of benevolence but I'm not expecially as part of fit is self-inflicted either because of our tactics (not the players fault) or because we invite pressure by giving the ball away for absolutely no reason.

[Finnegan]

Allows me to rest my case without another word.

Translation for those new to Thracianisms:

'Finners is right, I am being overly reactionary and I don't really have a counter to his argument. I was just venting about a perceived snub to beautiful Andy and, now I've calmed down, I concede last night will have no negative impact on our league season and may even improve our chances of promotion.'

[James.]

On the contrary I don't think a run in the Carling Cup would have harmed our league chances much. Would have been quite nice for the "second team" to get some first team games and go on a bit of a run.

Certainly not delighted we're out...

[Guest Bilo]

QPR went out at home to Port Vale in the first round of the Carling Cup last year.

I honestly shudder to think how the FT populous would have reacted to that result.

Sometimes we have to be pragmatic and look at our priorities. We had a great run in the 07-08 season as we won at Forest, performed heroically at Stamford Bridge and could consider ourselves unlucky to lose 4-3. Where did it get us? I don't think many remember our season for that run somehow.

It was always massively unlikely we were going to win the Carling Cup this season anyway and it would probably have been damaging to try. Give the FA Cup a bit more of a go as it's arguably less demanding on the squad (matches don't take place in the same week as a league game, most ties over in one game) but even that isn't our priority right now.

It's promotion, promotion, promotion. That's pretty much it.

[Corky]

It's always disappointing to lose, especially in a shoot-out where one miss proved the difference, but our fringe players got a good run out and have scored 10 goals in three away games in the Carling Cup.

We've still got the Fa Cup and most importantly the league to concentrate on. We need to put this defeat behind us and continue our unbeaten league run.

[Finnegan]

I think the strength of our squad is a myth, personally. We have some depth but not enough to get very far with our ressies and them comes the temptation to start fielding the first team for draining encounters against top prem teams we'll never beat.

I'm with Bilo. It's all about promotion, no distractions.

[Guest Col city fan]

Other fans have expressed the same sentiment and that sums up the first and biggest problem in our club - we're not winners. Until we start to hate losing everything from the toss onwards we're going to be doing this.

And please don't think I'm making more of this than

matters. It's an attitude of mind and you've always got

problems if you're thinking about the match in front of the one you're playing. We should hate to lose any match (we even threw the Academy title away last season) but if you leave your only goalscoring central midfield on the bench you're going to be firing on less than all cylinders.

As for missing penalties everyone does it but that's no excuse. It's sloppiness and another sign of not attending to detail. Fernandes? When does he ever score? Rarely - just seven goals in 209 league appearances since 2004 and 9 goals in 247 games all told. It's appalling. So why have him on the field when penalties are looming and people like King are sitting on the bench

As for the defeat last night somehow giving us the additional boost of revenge it can just as easily be argued that it will give Cardiff a boost of confidence. It actually has nothing to do with Sunday. We didn't want it enough and have got what we deserved. It's all about attitude and we

didn't have it. Which is exactly why we're where we are in the League table.

And, once again we conceded two goals. Is it ever going to end?

We've been good enough to beat the two table-topping teams in our division but not the also rans. And so it was again tonight. And some of our fans are not bothered. Well, when that attitude changes among both our players and

our fans, we'll start winning things.

Super post and and agree with all of it. The winning mentality is crucial whatever the fixture being played.

As many have pointed out above, cardiff too played a weakened side but somehow came our on top. Why then just accept that we have lost the chance to enjoy a cup run 'just because' we have a league game on Sunday?

It's so narrow minded, boring and so Sven-like to do it this way. I say again, we have the squad and the current recent

form to have won BOTH games... Now we could win neither.

And for some plonker earlier to suggest we didn't play Beckford cos we didn't want Mackay to see him.... !!!! lol

Even 'Bert' is joining in on this ridiculous nonsense... Do you REALLY think that the Cardiff management don't know what Beckford is capable of?

[Thracian]

Thracian we all would like a Cup Run for sure, but you have to give priority to the League. If we manage promotion this season and can establish ourselves in the Premiership like say Stoke have done, then surely we will be much more capable of winning cups then.

I don't remember too many people expecting us to win the League Cup when it happened so many times.

And taking your view, why would anyone even bother going watch cup matches at all. The football authorities might as well just forget em or leave em to the top clubs to sort out among themselves?

What you need in winning cups or anything else is ambition. Not money, but a belief in yourself and a determination to show you can beat anyone.

I just don't see we have that, nor do I see how being out of the cup and still not having that belief, will guarantee us promotion to the Premiership or anything else. It will just see us as also rans.

The League Cup offers us a great opportunity to make a statement about who we are and what we intend to be. What's more it gives us chance to build confidence, to build the habits of winning, scoring goals, developing partnerships and putting fear into people.

Ambition shouldn't be something you turn on and off - it should become part and parcel of what you are and something that's engendered even on the training ground never mind on match days.

You talk about promotion but this defeat only only comes on the back of our copping out completely at Cardiff last season with a performance I was thoroughly ashamed of.

Perhaps there were some signs of improvement last night and that "at least we drew the pre-penalties part". But we still finished losers and, as against Forest, failed to capitalise on getting in front.

[Dr The Singh]

listened to match on radio, so my opinion myabe second hand. But for me we had some fringe players who should have used to match to propel themselves in the eyes of Sven, but it seemed for one reason or another we didn't grasp the occassion (cup match) and really go for the jugguler, considering we had the better players!!

[Finnegan]

I loved it when we got to three cup finals under MON. Was fantastic, we were mid-table also rans and it gave us something to cheer.

[Christoph]

Dont worry lads, still got the FA cup :sge:

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

After a night to relect on it, it is disappoinintg but I'd have the win in the league any day.

Never were going to win on penalties, but take positives like the fact Johnson played 90 mins and Howard and Dyer impressed.

[hackneyfox]

Once it went to penalties we were fcuked. Has Sven EVER won a shootout in his managerial career?

I'd have blamed Fernandes and Weale before Sven.

[lcfcsnow]

b) We have a natural goalscoring midfielder on the bench (who had considerable influence on the last League Cup game) with penalties approaching and we chose to bring on a bloke who so rarely scores, who doesn't even defend as well as King and who clearly can't take a penalty either. On exactly what basis would you make that decision?

I agree with you for the most part but I have to say, where was King in the playoff semi final shootout? He was an ever present that season but didn't stand up and be counted in the shootout leaving Kermorgant and a young Waghorn to take penalties instead.

I don't think the decision to bring Fernandes can be questioned we scored 6 penalties in a row and lost, that rarely happens in football.