Negative Football and timewasting

[Captain...]

Should we be better at it?

At the Leeds game last week, there were some of the most disgusting time wasting/slowing down tactics I had seen since the last time we played Leeds and they were hanging on to a 1-0 win. It was horrible and frustrating to watch, and it made the last minute equaliser so much more satisfying.

Last night I saw Bayern Munich, arguably the 2nd best team in Europe, playing the last 10 minutes in the corner of the pitch and making some very cynical fouls and dives, it was crap to watch, but Bayern held on, Leeds didn't...

So against Cardiff on Tuesday night we had the same situation and, judging by Young's screaming for us to play into the corner and waste time, we tried to continue to attack and play football...

...and we got punished.

So was it the right option?

Seeing as usually if we sit back and play negatively we are not very good at it, we often lose the ball in the corner when trying to waste time (Knocky being the exception) and end up just inviting them on to us and we end up conceding, from a fans point of view I hate seeing us play that way almost as much as I hate seeing the opposition do that to us. We have conceded very few last minute goals this season, all of them coming in this poor spell of form.

So should we be practising negative football, and as a fan would you be happy watching cynical negative football for 20 minutes if it meant we won games like Cardiff 1-0, but didn't finish teams off quickly and hammer them into the ground scoring 4+ like we have done a few times this season?

[SystonFox]

if you're winning you do what you can to protect the lead. if your gaffer feels its play it in the corner, hold it up and dive for a FK with 30 secs to go then fine, if the gaffer says keep possesion and try to knock it about then thats also fine. but if the oppo has the ball theres not a great deal you can do but defend. we didn't defend well enough against Cordiff. perhaps Pearson needs to re think his tactics in this situation but each manager is different. id hate to see negative football but at the same time i want to beat top of the league Cardiff irrelevent to how we played. 3 pts is 3 pts

[?????]

I can't see anything wrong with it, the 3points are the most important thing, who cares of we have to run it into corners for 5-10 mins? But saying that I can't stand diving of any sort so I don't think that should be tolerated.

[foxfanazer]

Think we do need to improve our match play a little bit. The quality is there to go beat teams 3 or 4 nil but 3 points is 3 points regardless of how many we score

[pSinatra]

I did think against Cardiff that we should do to them what they did to us at the KP. They went a goal up & spent the rest of the game breaking up play, sticking the boot in, committing fouls........something that we seem to be incapable of doing. People have said that Cardiff have been lucky, scraping results. It would appear that they know exactly what they're doing. It ain't pretty but it works.

[jogsuk]

Thats being professional! When your in the lead with 10 / 15 mintues to go then stick the ball up your jummper and hide! Do whatever it takes to protect that lead! if it means putting the ball into a stands do! Thats what we failed to do on Tuesday night! Whe your 1-0 up you slow down the game as much as your allowed to get away with it and maybe even taking a booking in the process!

Remember its points that count not how dull the game was!

[Deucalion]

I can't complain about the late goal at Cardiff because I hate to see time-wasting.

[Corky]

No, the best way to waste time is keep the ball. You can't add time on for that.

We just don't look convincing at timewasting. You see other clubs and players almost seem natural at going over, sitting down with "cramp" and little injuries, we don't seem to be able to do it.

Just be calm in possession and you should be fine.

[coatsworthstache]

Should we be better at it?

At the Leeds game last week, there were some of the most disgusting time wasting/slowing down tactics I had seen since the last time we played Leeds and they were hanging on to a 1-0 win. It was horrible and frustrating to watch, and it made the last minute equaliser so much more satisfying.

Last night I saw Bayern Munich, arguably the 2nd best team in Europe, playing the last 10 minutes in the corner of the pitch and making some very cynical fouls and dives, it was crap to watch, but Bayern held on, Leeds didn't...

I hate it. I can understand Bayern in the last 10 minutes, but teams come to the KP and it seems to be the norm from the 1st minute to take ages to take any set-piece, goal kick etc. Weak refereeing doesn't help, remember Paddy Kenny was doing it all game for Leeds, and yet at the end of the first half when we had a corner, the referee added 0 minutes stoppage time and blew for half-time.

The problem I have is that it shouldn't be for teams to get better at it, it should be for decision makers to stamp it out. Taking timing out of the hands of the referee would do this in a stroke, once the ball is dead, the clock stops, once the clock gets to 90minutes the game ends. Remember at some level, this is an entertainment industry, and people pay to watch football, not to watch goalkeepers pulling their socks and up and kicking posts to get mud of their boots.

[Kitchandro]

But if you actually look at those 2 examples, Leeds conceded in the last minute and Bayern were beaten 2-0 at home. Those were negative results at the end of it, you could argue it would have been worse for Leeds if they'd tried to take us on but they didn't hang on, but you can't tell me Bayern were better off playing as they did last night.

We didn't grind out the win we wanted at Cardiff, and look at the goal, it was caused by sitting back and letting them cross it into our box at will. The negativity didnt help us there.

Now, I'm all for being physical when it's necessary, setting up solidly against better teams away from home (like we did in the first half) etc, but flat out negatvity is bad in the long run. You will never improve to the level that you should be capable of.

Grinding out wins is more about character, team work and 100% effort. I think this idea of fouling people, sitting back and timewasting is overrated. Leeds are mid-table because they're a boring, slow tempo, average side. Just like us last season.

As Corky says above you need to use the ball sensibly and effectively. Don't gift them back possession at the drop of a hat by hoofing it when everyone is in your own half. If we're under pressure we need outlets to release it, players who can collect the ball and hold it up, or worry their defenders so they can't push so many forward.

Keeping it in the corner is fair enough, but people should bare in mind how desperate the linesman is to give a throw or a free kick the other way when players do this. Unless you're Bayern Munich at home to the last English side in the Champions League of course.

I think you've answered your own question Shrap - if we didn't finish teams off quickly like we did to Ipswich and Huddersfield at home, maybe it would have been them who got the last minute equaliser. Because we were negative instead of finishing them off.

You don't have to be negative to defend a lead, you just need to use the ball better, use your common sense and defend as a strong unit when necessary. And if possible, get a 2nd, 3rd and 4th goal. That is the most effective way, no doubt about it.

[_Fatboyslow_]

Your OP covers 2 issues, so firstly setting out at the start to close out a game is one thing, (us at say cardiff) and is acceptable and part and parcel of the game. To set out to spoil a game from the start (Leeds) is not as here you are intentionally breaking the rules to gain an advantage, so is ineffective cheating.

The second of running out the clock to defend your lead is fine, no differant to shielding the ball out of play to gain a goal kick or throw in. It can get a little out of hand at times as we have seen, but if the ball is there to be played then fair enough. If players or ball boys waste time when restarting the officials need to deal with it.

[Captain...]

I hate negative tactics with a passion and I'm glad we rarely see us trying to play keep ball in the corner, that is not football, and generally we have been quite good at not conceding late on without employing negative tactics.

The thing is whenever we do try and do it, and sometimes it is the right time to do it, like 92nd minute, 1-0 up away to the league leaders, we always seem so bad at it.

Agree with Coatsworth's 'Tache, the refs really should be the ones to stamp it out, or given the tools with which to do so, as there is nothing more than can do than have a word, which wastes more time, or book them, which wastes even more time, even if it is post match fines, such as in cricket for slow over rate, or the ability to reverse a decision if they are taking too long over it, take too long over a throw, it is reversed and possession given to the opposition with a throw, with a goal kick, it is a corner, with a free kick, then an indirect free kick. The problem is a booking is too severe for what is a minor offence, and so many players do it, that it would be a card fest.

They still wouldn't be able to do anything about players time wasting in the corner though, that is the most annoying, play it in the corner, stand on it, wait for the foul, short free kick, run it into the corner, draw the foul...

[ealingfox]

You just know half the people saying they would want us to do it would actually be going apesh*t at Pearson if we did.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

I also remember us being a goal up at home to Charlton, Clemence taking the ball into the corner deep into the opposition half, conceding a free kick and Charlton hoof it up the other end and equalise. As others have said, the best way to kill time is to keep possession at all costs.

[Finnegan]

Honestly rather draw or lose with a bit of dignity and pride than time waste.

The last couple of minutes in the corner I can basically stomach but anything else? Never.

[pazzerfox]

It can be the difference between 3 points and 1 or 1 and 0 (as shown on Tuesday), so we definitely need to improve in that area.

[Captain...]

It can be the difference between 3 points and 1 or 1 and 0 (as shown on Tuesday), so we definitely need to improve in that area.

But it is not a guarantee as proved by Leeds last week, and they are experts at it.

[Number 6]

Too often these days result trumps performance. Personally I'd rather watch a team play some nice football. If winning comes with that (as it often has this season) then that's a bonus. There's definitely a balance to be had.

[Out Foxed]

I remember Ipswich doing it after bowyer scored that early pen last season. Embarrassing to watch. No I'd rather we didn't do it.

[Basingstoke Fox]

Honestly rather draw or lose with a bit of dignity and pride than time waste.

The last couple of minutes in the corner I can basically stomach but anything else? Never.

I basically agree with this and the posters saying that the best way of killing the game off is to keep and manage the ball well. I don't want to pay the high prices that we do pay to go to the games, if we're just going to watch time-wasting. I hated seeing Charlton, Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday doing it and I'd hate for us to become one of those sorts of sides. We can be much better than that and that's something that we can take pride in as supporters of our club.

[purpleronnie]

I cant remember a time when leicester could simply kill games off, I dont think its a particualry english thing to do, It involves keeping the ball something that we're not very good at.

[James.]

In my eyes negative football is a tactical decision and while it's not what I want to see if clubs want to play that way that's their call.

Timewasting on the other hand is just cúntish and completely goes against the principles of sportsmanship and fair play. Like some others I'd rather we lose and retain a sense of what makes sport great then act like dicks just to get the win.

[Webbo]

In my eyes negative football is a tactical decision and while it's not what I want to see if clubs want to play that way that's their call.

Timewasting on the other hand is just cúntish and completely goes against the principles of sportsmanship and fair play. Like some others I'd rather we lose and retain a sense of what makes sport great then act like dicks just to get the win.

That's a fans view. If you were a professional would you rather retain a sense of what makes sport great and lose your job?

[James.]

That's a fans view. If you were a professional would you rather retain a sense of what makes sport great and lose your job?

I would hope that their employment was based on more than just their ability to time waste effectively.

[Alf Bentley]

No, the best way to waste time is keep the ball. You can't add time on for that.

We just don't look convincing at timewasting. You see other clubs and players almost seem natural at going over, sitting down with "cramp" and little injuries, we don't seem to be able to do it.

Just be calm in possession and you should be fine.

Exactly - and the reason why I can't vote in this poll.

There are different ways of "using up time" - and we have the players to be quite good at keeping possession without indulging in Leeds-style cheating by feigning injuries, petty arguing, refusing to accept the ball from an opponent at a throw-in, repeatedly moving the ball at goal-kicks and so on (to name just a few of the Warnock tactics deployed at the recent match).

Your poll needs more options: "Yes" to keeping possession, to passing it around at the back, to holding it in the corner... (and to not playing pointless crosses or getting caught offside, sins Vardy & Waghorn were apparently guilty of at Cardiff); but "No" to Warnock-style illegitimate time-wasting and cheating.