Miquel The Work Geordie Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 yeah but club vs country actually clashes if you're a player, you might tire yourself out or injure yourself when playing for england and not be able to play for your club. you ain't gonna miss city vs Newcastle next week just cos you cheered too much in tonight's win are ya? Why would you want to support that, though? Why would you want to support somebody with an eye on a club fixture rather than applying themselves wholeheartedly whilst representing their country?
ScouseFox Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 Why would you want to support that, though? Why would you want to support somebody with an eye on a club fixture rather than applying themselves wholeheartedly whilst representing their country? yeah ideally I wouldn't but I can't help how they feel. I don't think most do actually "not care" it just sometimes comes across that way. they seem to care less about qualifiers, which is nearly understandable when you think how shit the opposition are and how most are pretty pointless. think I've drifted the opposite way to most though in that my feelings are just cos some players look like they might not give a shit why shouldn't I? still my team my country etc, i still want to jump round the pub every time we score. always have always will. at least you (and a few others) put up a few decent points about starting to not give a hoot, as opposed to literally just stopping cos we aren't very good. we're not even that bad really in the grand scheme of things.
Dan Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 I'll make an analogy Scouse. If Leicester played 100 miles away for home games in a half full ground because it's £45 a ticket for qualifying games against Norwich (Switzerland), Barnsley (Slovenia), York City (Estonia), Nuneaton (Lithuania) and East Stirling reserves (San Marino), where you're playing for a top two place (which we would absolutely walk every time), would you really feel anything for us? I would seriously struggle to. It's one thing having national pride - but do this lot play like they have any themselves?
Corky Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 And on the sterling tiredness issue. Seems only the Liverpool fans are getting their knickers in a twist about it, they'd not be kicking up this much of a fuss of it was anyone else, although that's understandable... I bet they'd be giving out stick of it was someone like Wilshere that had said he was tired. I'm sure the Sturridge incident has played a massive part in Hodgsons decision to rest him too. If Hodgson hadn't have given a reason as to why Raheem didn't play he'd have been slated, he does and he still gets slated. Poor bloke can't win. I agree, they are adults and Hodgson should take them at face value. If they say they are tired, or injured, Hodgson leaves them out for the best of the team and brings in a fit player. Then if that replacement plays really well and is undroppable for the next game there should be no complaints. This Sturridge thing will rumble on and Sterling will be caught in the middle as he's the most exciting prospect currently.
Finnegan Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 I don't think people turn off England because it's fashionable. They do it because it's not enjoyable for them to watch ninety minutes of boring struggle from mostly boring players. It's why city's gates dropped under Levein and Kelly and why they're up now. We don't like the idea of glory supporters but at the same time people want to be entertained. I'm a fairly hardcore international fan, I'm country before club. Even I gave up going to games and occasionally even watching on telly under Toshack. It was tedious, dull and shit. Ask yourself, other than some sort of patriotic obligation, why would anyone opt to watch Estonia and England grind out a terrible one nil when they could watch a good film, play a game or shag their missus?
Vacamion Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 why would anyone opt to watch Estonia and England grind out a terrible one nil when they could watch a good film, play a game or shag their missus? "God Save our Gracious Queen, Long live our Nooooooooooooble Qu......... Ah well better look for some films and games"
Finnegan Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 "God Save our Gracious Queen, Long live our Nooooooooooooble Qu......... Ah well better look for some films and games" I usually get at least to the chorus. One of us has to be gwlad for the experience.
Grandad. Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 We play a diamond because Liverpool did, Liverpool relied on Suarez to score and create their goals and we don't have a player that is anywhere near his level so we're going to struggle to break sides down when they're really defensive and narrow because we don't have a Suarez. 41212 is ok on the counter but cramming the centre of the pitch with players won't work very well in an attacking sense. Liverpool played the diamond at the back of the season and it wasn't because of Luis Suarez, we played the diamond because Rodgers seen that Sterling wasn't a winger and is better centrally, that is why England now play the diamond and Hodgson has realised that Rooney isn't a number 10, he is a striker, Rooney isn't a link player, he is a goal scorer. England were pretty pathetic I thought last night, the fact we have scored just 6 goals against San Marino and Estonia is woeful. Like MTWG has already said, I will care about England when I see the England players perform like they do for their clubs and they start playing as a side to their full potential, I do believe there is a lot of potential there, that's what the frustrating thing is, but scoring just 6 goals against that shit we have played is shit. And Hodgson hanging Sterling out to dry is ****ing bang out of order, perfect way to deflect how shit England have been and get the media and every pundit, fan and other **** speaking about Sterling now being 'tired' than how average England are against the worst side in Europe and another minnow in Estonia. Hodgson is a ****.
Samilktray Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 I don't really think he's hung Sterling out to dry. He's seemed quite supportive of him in what he's said about it.
Grandad. Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 I don't really think he's hung Sterling out to dry. He's seemed quite supportive of him in what he's said about it. He's spoke about Sterling telling him about being tired, knowing full well the media would speak about this more than the result, Hodgson covered his arse, win well then he has rested Sterling and England have more options, win and play shit (like we did) and we can use Sterling being tired as a factor. A manager shouldn't go to the media and inform them on a private conversation between a manager and his player. Load of shit.
Super_horns Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 A manager shouldn't go to the media and inform them on a private conversation between a manager and his player. Load of shit Hodgson is sometimes too honest for his own good - and the press would have demanded an answer. Most would have made some sort of excuse about a slight knock. Suspect Liverpool had a say in it all.. Bit worrying though that at 19 Sterling is tired - trouble is we almost are relying on him already!
Grandad. Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 Hodgson is sometimes too honest for his own good. Most would have made some sort of excuse about a slight knock. Suspect Liverpool had a say in it all.. I think we did have a say in it mate, I thought that when he took Sterling and Henderson off at HT v San Marino. Hodgson knew Sterling has been struggling, hence taking him off v San Marino at HT, so to then air him out to the media telling everyone that Raheem has come up to him and told Hodgson that he is tired is shit from Hodgson, nothing to do with being to honest, Sterling could of withdrew himself from the squad like so many England players have done before with bullshit excuses but he stayed and came on and lifted the dour game yesterday.
Vacamion Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 Reading this board, it's easy to forget we won both games, conceded none and are top of the group.
Bayfox Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 little off topic but didn't want to start a new thread. I heard the commentary yesterday mentioned 5 clean sheets in a row for the 1st time in about 8 years. they implied that the back 4 then would have been cole, terry, rio and neville. looking back those 4 must be some of the most decorated english defenders ever. how did we not win something or go a lot closer with that back 4.
Simmo86 Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 little off topic but didn't want to start a new thread. I heard the commentary yesterday mentioned 5 clean sheets in a row for the 1st time in about 8 years. they implied that the back 4 then would have been cole, terry, rio and neville. looking back those 4 must be some of the most decorated english defenders ever. how did we not win something or go a lot closer with that back 4. Because we lacked bottle.
bovril Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 I don't think we underachieved back then. We got to the 1/4s twice in a row which is about where we should have been - top 8 in the world.
purpleronnie Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 For the last decade there have been criticisms of the England players and their passion and commitment to our national side. So I suppose stories like a 19 year old telling the manager he's too tired only a couple of months into the season will only perpetuate that view.
Grandad. Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 For the last decade there have been criticisms of the England players and their passion and commitment to our national side. So I suppose stories like a 19 year old telling the manager he's too tired only a couple of months into the season will only perpetuate that view. Raheem Sterling.. Minutes played. 2012/13: 1,748 2013/14: 2,218 2 months of this season, after a World Cup: 1,110 Sterling said he was tired for the training session, never said he couldn't play v Estonia, how many players sit out of training sessions, a hell of a lot do.
purpleronnie Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 Raheem Sterling.. Minutes played. 2012/13: 1,748 2013/14: 2,218 2 months of this season, after a World Cup: 1,110 Sterling said he was tired for the training session, never said he couldn't play v Estonia, how many players sit out of training sessions, a hell of a lot do. If a players starts moaning about being tired for training you can bet your bottom dollar the manager would be hestitant to play them, you would hope players would do everything in their power to play as much as they can for england. I'm not saying its right or wrong but that it won't help the publics percerption that england players aren't willing to run through brick walls for their country.
ScouseFox Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 michael owen has openly admitted he completely fu cked his later career by playing too many games too early as a kid. the likes of sterling and barkley can't play every game at 18/19 because they'll end up f ucked too. barkley has already picked up his first "major" injury after his first proper season and the first time he hasn't had a summer break cos he was involved in the World Cup. common sense to rest players in a pointless game we were always going to win. don't see what the big deal is. they're kids not machines.
Manwell Pablo Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 I realize both games where horrendous to watch (San Marino was always going to be) but I struggle to see the need for all the moaning, Estonia, away, was never going to be a completely straight forward exercise, as I said before the game. Away international games are difficult as they take you completely out of your comfort zone. Three games are down and we're in a situation where we can practically book our flight to France if we beat Slovenia at Wembley next month, hardly the worst position to be in, given that we're doing better than Spain Germany Holland Portugal and Greece
Grandad. Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 The thing with Sterling is that Hodgson could easily have said, that he is playing Lallana ahead of Sterling because Lallana deserves a start and he wanted fresh legs out there v Estonia, no need to say Sterling came up and told him he was tired and asked to miss training. That is all Sterling did here, asked to miss a session. Never asked to be withdrawn from the squad, never refused to train. Hodgson let him miss the session and it was Hodgson who didn't start Sterling but then chose to bring him on after 65 minutes. Sterling could easily of done what Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Rooney, Owen and all the others have done and just pulled out of the squad.
filbertway Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 I genuinely don't even see the issue. If he didn't feel he could give a full 90 because he was tired then good on him for saying it. I'd rather have players feeling fully fit and able to give their all.
Dan Posted 13 October 2014 Posted 13 October 2014 Reading this board, it's easy to forget we won both games, conceded none and are top of the group. Anything less would be a disgrace.
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