A bigger stadium, what are the options?

[Clever Fox]

The closed season is nowhere near long enough to extend a stand. 2 1/2 - 3 months, you're in cloud cookoo land chap.

They built the Whole Stadium in 12 Months, so why do you think they couldn't put a top on one Stand in 8 Months.

Assuming the foundations and structure where built to potentially carry an upper tier if required in the first instant.

Then you're not designing a new Stadium you're only adding to what's their already. Which is basically a repetitious structure, like for like components. 

Not difficult at all.

[Babylon]

They built the Whole Stadium in 12 Months, so why do you think they couldn't put a top on one Stand in 8 Months.

Assuming the foundations and structure where built to potentially carry an upper tier if required in the first instant.

Then you're not designing a new Stadium you're only adding to what's their already. Which is basically a repetitious structure, like for like components. 

Not difficult at all.

We will need to do the foundations from what I remember. If you look at the images from cardiff I posted on the previous page it shows the work and what they do, with the whole stand being built behind the old one first. If you want it done quickly you can pay I'd imagine, but it looks a bigger job than I first though if we did it the same way.

[Great Boos Up]

For those saying we would have to give more than our current 3,200 tickets to away fans are wrong.

Old Trafford is what 70,000? Away allocation is exactly the same as ours.

I don't think anyone said " have to " but meant could do if we expanded. Better than empty seats if things were to go T*ts up.

We are quite a fair, forward thinking, progressive family club and would never want to be associated with that's what ManU do.

I'd much prefer to set the marker of fair allocation rather than just meet it.

[urban.spaceman]

I'd love it. Had an ST throughout the Kelly/Levein years yet have absolutely no chance of getting a ticket nowadays.

 

I refuse to pay for just the privilege of being able to attempt to buy a ticket through the membership scheme when I will be back in the Midlands for maybe 2 home games a season.

 

 

 

Ironic how I paid all that money to watch that dross yet can't get a ticket now we're big time!

DITTO

[promised land]

They built the Whole Stadium in 12 Months, so why do you think they couldn't put a top on one Stand in 8 Months.

Assuming the foundations and structure where built to potentially carry an upper tier if required in the first instant.

Then you're not designing a new Stadium you're only adding to what's their already. Which is basically a repetitious structure, like for like components.

Not difficult at all.

8 months, I thought you said closed season.

Look at the Etihad as an example. A bigger stand to extend yes but it took them a long time, the roof alone would be a major exercise as it's all supporting itself at present.

Cardiffs extension looks awful and cheap, add into they always had ideas to do it from the start as there was a huge void from top row of seats to the external wall.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Would love to see Filbert Street Car Park turned into a fan village.

 

Would need to get the Tigers involved I would imagine.

 

 

We must be one of the worst away days in the country.

That's Morrisons isn't it?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Building another stadium is obviously not going to happen but for those stattos out there, has anyone moved stadiums twice in a reasonably short space of time?

Coventry

[ScouseFox]

leave it like it is, why change it when it's the best atmosphere we've probably ever had

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Hopefully any new development will add some Bond villain style helicopter landing pad on the roof of the stand and garishly oppulant viewing position for the owners!

[Wymsey]

Shame the nearby area has student properties on it (especially behind where the old ground used to be).

 

Is that was still empty, it would've been great potential for a fan's village etc.

[Ashley]

I don't think anyone said " have to " but meant could do if we expanded. Better than empty seats if things were to go T*ts up.

We are quite a fair, forward thinking, progressive family club and would never want to be associated with that's what ManU do.

I'd much prefer to set the marker of fair allocation rather than just meet it.

Regardless why give more tickets to opposition fans if you can get away with 3,200 and sell tickets to your own fans? - should we expand?

[Guest CityFan 06]

I have wondered if that space of free land next to the stadium, located next to the 'Filbert Way' sign is any link to future expansions? Might not be anything to do with it, but looks a good amount of space for a car park. Of course because of the expansion more parking spaces would be understandable due to the increase of supporters travelling to the ground.

[wattolcfc]

When we expand, I think the club should get the old railway line back in use behind the ground, could ferry people to and from the city centre/park and rides on match days, keep traffic problems down to a minimum.

[davieG]

The Tigers want to put a fans village amongst other things on the car park next to their which they've put in a bid for along with 4 other companies but it's probably end up as either empty offices or student flats.

I have wondered if that space of free land next to the stadium, located next to the 'Filbert Way' sign is any link to future expansions? Might not be anything to do with it, but looks a good amount of space for a car park. Of course because of the expansion more parking spaces would be understandable due to the increase of supporters travelling to the ground.

It was sold back in the summer but who too who knows?

[C-man]

They built a whole stadium in 12 months because it was flatpack and done on the cheap. The structural changes that would be required to facilitate a new tier would be expensive and time consuming.

I don't think the Club will consider this a worthwhile investment - even if we were to miraculously sell out an additional 8k every game the return on cost would be very slow, particularly once you've factored in running costs and overheads.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Regardless why give more tickets to opposition fans if you can get away with 3,200 and sell tickets to your own fans? - should we expand?

 

Exactly, the club has been doing so much to rump up the atmosphere to support the lads, why would they give the away fans another 1000 or so seats. 

[Clever Fox]

8 months, I thought you said closed season.

Look at the Etihad as an example. A bigger stand to extend yes but it took them a long time, the roof alone would be a major exercise as it's all supporting itself at present.

Cardiffs extension looks awful and cheap, add into they always had ideas to do it from the start as there was a huge void from top row of seats to the external wall.

I did say in the close season but that was only for the physical works of erecting it on site at the Stadium. All supposition of course but here is the scenario I was looking at. As it's a relatively new stadium all the Drawings including working Drawings should be still available. Would make sense to also use the same structural Engineers and Builders.

Design and prepare Planning drawings 3 to 4 Weeks. During that time preliminary discussion with the Council to see is it a runner.

Submit planning late January/February. Discussions with St Eng and Fabricators and Builder working out what's involved and time frames.

Planning approval early April. Fabrication work begins.  Builders move in after the last game in May.  That should allow for 8 to 10 weeks for the works to be carried out at the Stadium. Even with a little slippage in time it could be still be finished early in the new season. 

 

But as Babs has said, if the Foundations have to be redone then that presents a completely new scenario and set of problems.

It may be easier to remove a whole stand and then start from the ground up with a complete new two Tier Stand and sell off the old one to someone else.

Just a thought though.

We'll probably be still talking about it in years to come.

[davieG]

I did say in the close season but that was only for the physical works of erecting it on site at the Stadium. All supposition of course but here is the scenario I was looking at. As it's a relatively new stadium all the Drawings including working Drawings should be still available. Would make sense to also use the same structural Engineers and Builders.

Design and prepare Planning drawings 3 to 4 Weeks. During that time preliminary discussion with the Council to see is it a runner.

Submit planning late January/February. Discussions with St Eng and Fabricators and Builder working out what's involved and time frames.

Planning approval early April. Fabrication work begins.  Builders move in after the last game in May.  That should allow for 8 to 10 weeks for the works to be carried out at the Stadium. Even with a little slippage in time it could be still be finished early in the new season. 

 

But as Babs has said, if the Foundations have to be redone then that presents a completely new scenario and set of problems.

It may be easier to remove a whole stand and then start from the ground up with a complete new two Tier Stand and sell off the old one to someone else.

Just a thought though.

We'll probably be still talking about it in years to come.

The original builders wouldn't touch us with a barge pole as they believe we ripped them off when we went into administration as they didn't get the full payment which is also which the finer details of the stadium were never completed.

 

I doubt very much you'd get planning approval in a 2/3 month timescale.

[Jace]

The stadium is such a basic designed structure it will be very easy to extend, from what I've heard the extension to the kop and east stand is very similar looking to Cardiffs recent extension which would be a shame as it is a very poor unimaginative design. Personally I would like to see us plan something like Southampton had previously been planning with an entire revamp of the stadium with an extension up to 40,000. For those of you who are not already aware St Marys Stadium is structurally the same design as ours 

 

http://www.footballforums.net/showthread.php/287636-Southampton-reveal-St-Mary-s-stadium-redevelopment-and-expansion-quot-plans-quot

[promised land]

They built the Whole Stadium in 12 Months, so why do you think they couldn't put a top on one Stand in 8 Months.

Assuming the foundations and structure where built to potentially carry an upper tier if required in the first instant.

Then you're not designing a new Stadium you're only adding to what's their already. Which is basically a repetitious structure, like for like components. 

Not difficult at all.

Actually a very difficult project and far more complex than a whole stadium from ground up.

It's not just going upwards, to get another tier on you need to go out wards behind the existing turnstile wall, plus as I said the roof would be a job in itself altering that.

But hey what do I know, only been in the building trade 27 years.

[Clever Fox]

The original builders wouldn't touch us with a barge pole as they believe we ripped them off when we went into administration as they didn't get the full payment which is also which the finer details of the stadium were never completed.

 

I doubt very much you'd get planning approval in a 2/3 month timescale.

Legally they have to give a yes or a no in 2 Months but can stretch it to 3 with last minute questions which is what very often happens.

[davieG]

Legally they have to give a yes or a no in 2 Months but can stretch it to 3 with last minute questions which is what very often happens.

They'll  be plenty of legal reasons why something like this will take longer

 

for example

 

The insistence on a viable travel plan something we still haven't  complied with for the stadium build.

Consultation of nearby residents and the almost certain reappearance of the Offside protest group.

 

This are both time consuming back and for delaying obstacles.

[Clever Fox]

Actually a very difficult project and far more complex than a whole stadium from ground up.

It's not just going upwards, to get another tier on you need to go out wards behind the existing turnstile wall, plus as I said the roof would be a job in itself altering that.

But hey what do I know, only been in the building trade 27 years.

 

I agree with your first point, Sometimes altering something can be more problematic that a new build.

Keep in mind that the type of money involved is small compared to normal projects. Again a new Roof might be cheaper than faffing around with alterations.

 

but then again as you say what do I know . Retired now, But nearly 50 years as an Engineer, Many spent overseeing and supervising Multi million pound projects.

Still I'm always willing to learn new ways as Technology keeps moving forward at pace. 

 

If it needs new Foundations then it probably wont happen anyway.

[Vlad the Fox]

If I remember correctly the foundations were put in place to take an extra tier on the east stand bringing the capacity up to 40,000.

[Clever Fox]

They'll  be plenty of legal reasons why something like this will take longer

 

for example

 

The insistence on a viable travel plan something we still haven't  complied with for the stadium build.

Consultation of nearby residents and the almost certain reappearance of the Offside protest group.

 

This are both time consuming back and for delaying obstacles.

You are quite right Protest groups can cause problems and delay any project. Funny you raised that point, something I had completely forgotten about. I know of another large stadium where about 50 local houses backed onto the Stadium. The residents objected to a new stand. They had to be bought off at a cost of 2 grand each and a few modifications. This was quite a few years ago when two grand would buy you at least half a house.