The end of pointless possession football?

[Phube]

Surely this year have proven to be the end of pass, pass pass keep possession football.

Leicester, Atletico Madrid, Iceland, Italy etc. Have proved with a good, well drilled defence, and pacy disciplined players you can match any 'better' team.

The question is whee does this leave the experts (like Hoddle etc.) who can't get over that %possession does not equal win?

[Libertine]

Surely this year have proven to be the end of pass, pass pass keep possession football.

Leicester, Atletico Madrid, Iceland, Italy etc. Have proved with a good, well drilled defence, and pacy disciplined players you can match any 'better' team.

The question is whee does this leave the experts (like Hoddle etc.) who can't get over that %possession does not equal win?

 

Spot on. Sick of this hipster crap. If you're good enough like previous Spain squads, Germany etc then fine but we're not. Stop overcomplicating football, get people in behind. Simple.

[Fox92]

When it's aggressive it's good to watch. Germany aren't boring, they keep the ball, the play out from the back but they go for it. Arsenal used to be the same (with Henry, Pires, Bergkamp etc), keep the ball, in behind, fast... England are just the opposite... We go sidewards too much, there's no creativity, and when we get to the edge of the area we just don't know what to do with it.

[jaqo88]

All about the mentality. Having lots of possession can be a good thing, if you are positive with the time on the ball, and look to push forward at every opportunity. It is absolutely useless, when you play like England or someone like Man U at the moment, as passing sidewards gets you nowhere. Less about the possession, and more about what you set up to do.

 

Positive thinking on the ball is key. 

[wardyfox86]

The problem is we play all our possession football in the middle third, and attempt to draw opposition out.

But the opposition are very much aware that we lack the quality to play it through them, so just stick 10/11 men behind the ball and leave us to it.

I said it in a different thread, we would be much better giving up the ball, allowing some pressure and enticing them out, then breaking fast. We have enough pacey players to do this.

The only problem with that is you need to trust your defenders to defend

[DB11]

I guess it depends what sort of a person you are as to whether you like it.

 

Some people are mesmerized by Barcelona but I find nothing more boring than watching them

[ScouseFox]

just further proof of what a few of us knew a good ten years ago, spain ruined football 

[Stadt]

The reason Spain and Barca kept the ball was because they had the players that when they had the opportunity could play a killer ball, it's all well and good when Xavi and Iniesta recycle the ball to feed Villa and Torres in their primes but when it's Eric Dier and Jordan Henderson feeding Harry Kane it's a different story.

[fuchsntf]

Talking of rating possesion,

What odds would you of got for....

Leicester PL champions

Iceland EU champions.

If Hodgson had the players to play counter attacking football, he didnt have nous or competence.

Leicester/spurs would of beat Iceland...and without doubt both would of beat England.

[Kilworthfox]

It's fine having slow possession, as long as you have exceptional quality in midfield to find gaps. If you don't have exceptional players the possession based football becomes awful to watch, very predictable, easily defended and ultimately worst of all totally ineffective.

 

The best players know when to inject pace into the attack, we did this wonderfully last season.

 

I hope that Leicester and England are finding ways to be successful however they wish to play in future. I think that the players need to intelligent and understand the situation they are in on the field, and decide if they need to have more of the ball or be defensive and counter attack at pace.

 

There has to be a split of 100% of the ball possession, so it is illogical to suggest that just because you have less and can defend well that, that is better than having most of the ball. Winning is all that matters, scoring more than the opposition, always has been, doesn't matter how its done.

[fuchsntf]

It's fine having slow possession, as long as you have exceptional quality in midfield to find gaps. If you don't have exceptional players the possession based football becomes awful to watch, very predictable, easily defended and ultimately worst of all totally ineffective.

 

The best players know when to inject pace into the attack, we did this wonderfully last season.

 

I hope that Leicester and England are finding ways to be successful however they wish to play in future. I think that the players need to intelligent and understand the situation they are in on the field, and decide if they need to have more of the ball or be defensive and counter attack at pace.

 

There has to be a split of 100% of the ball possession, so it is illogical to suggest that just because you have less and can defend well that, that is better than having most of the ball. Winning is all that matters, scoring more than the opposition, always has been, doesn't matter how its done.

good post, puts the point where the ball should be,

system, plan,and have the players who understand it.Possesion % s is as good or bad as your players can handle.

[J.Lisemore]

People like Hoddle just try to over complicate the game of football to look like some sort of fashionable modern day tactical genius.

[fuchsntf]

People like Hoddle just try to over complicate the game of football to look like some sort of fashionable modern day tactical genius.

Hoddle, was a grwat player, a blind and bias pundit, who still could lay good points on the table.

I rated him when he was the English manager, regretted his too loose words on his social thoughts.

I believe he could still do a good job for England.If the 2 could work together love to see

Shearer and Hoddle come together.

[Webbo]

We tried playing the "British Way" ie. direct when Graham Taylor was manager and we didn't qualify for the world cup. 

 

I was reading Jamie Carragher tonight and I reckon he's right when he says our players are too soft. Pampered from an early age, indulged by their clubs and agents. Too much "never mind you did your best" and not enough bollockings.

[Donut]

We tried playing the "British Way" ie. direct when Graham Taylor was manager and we didn't qualify for the world cup. 

 

I was reading Jamie Carragher tonight and I reckon he's right when he says our players are too soft. Pampered from an early age, indulged by their clubs and agents. Too much "never mind you did your best" and not enough bollockings.

 

Thats shite. Sorry but thats rubbish.

[Donut]

Surely this year have proven to be the end of pass, pass pass keep possession football.

Leicester, Atletico Madrid, Iceland, Italy etc. Have proved with a good, well drilled defence, and pacy disciplined players you can match any 'better' team.

The question is whee does this leave the experts (like Hoddle etc.) who can't get over that %possession does not equal win?

 

Possession football can be equally effective as direct football

 

Its whatever approach suits the players at the disposal of the manager, the situation of the game, the conditions, and the opponent.

 

Neither is better or worse than the other.

[Manwell Pablo]

Surely this year have proven to be the end of pass, pass pass keep possession football.

Leicester, Atletico Madrid, Iceland, Italy etc. Have proved with a good, well drilled defence, and pacy disciplined players you can match any 'better' team.

The question is whee does this leave the experts (like Hoddle etc.) who can't get over that %possession does not equal win?

Possession football still the best way to win a game if your any good at it. Just look round Europe you'll see most teams with highest possession % in their league have a trophy in their cabinet of some description.

[Captain...]

I think people misunderstand what Barcelona and Spain did to become successful, yes they had a lot of possession but people were obsessed with tiki taka passing, and so tried to copy that by playing lots of short sideways passes.

They were wrong, the success of Barca and Spain was in winning the ball back quickly and if they didn't they drop deep. Possession stats were high because they won ball back quickly and high up the pitch, not because of a 100% pass completion.

When they won the ball back they were able to attack with speed, but they were also capable of keeping the ball and working an opening with intricate passing, as well as having players that could create space and take defenders out the game. They were also pretty handy on set pieces.

Their success was because they got so many aspects right possession football was just one aspect of it and without the rest of it they wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful.

[Finnegan]

We tried playing the "British Way" ie. direct when Graham Taylor was manager and we didn't qualify for the world cup.

I was reading Jamie Carragher tonight and I reckon he's right when he says our players are too soft. Pampered from an early age, indulged by their clubs and agents. Too much "never mind you did your best" and not enough bollockings.

I hate excuses like this. Players from all over Europe are on silly contracts from a young age, pampered, driving hyper cars and strutting around in designer clobber with models on their arm. It's not just England.

Others that annoy me, "we play too much football" - all of Europe plays about the same and half the world's other players play in the prem anyway!

Other one, "the players are scared of failure because the press are mean" ****ing hell, have you ever read Marca? L'equipe? Bild? End of the world if they lose.

Spain especially, the sports press there are absolutely mental.

[Thracian]

We tried playing the "British Way" ie. direct when Graham Taylor was manager and we didn't qualify for the world cup. 

 

I was reading Jamie Carragher tonight and I reckon he's right when he says our players are too soft. Pampered from an early age, indulged by their clubs and agents. Too much "never mind you did your best" and not enough bollockings.

 

 

 

Agree completely. We're soft mentally as much as physically. It's been programmed into us in schools for decades now and is reflected in so many aspects of society. 

 

Our weekly pub league golf competition was decimated in midweek due to nothing more dramatic than a bit of rain. One pairing I saw even walked off partway through.

 

How bad was it? Well, it was so warm, none of my three-man group even bothered wearing waterproof tops. One scored level par, the next two under par and the third three under par for nine holes. Hardly "impossible" playing conditions.

 

Against Iceland the first requirement for England was to compete. Yet so many didn't. We were physical pushovers, literally at times.

 

Then there's the mental weakness which was so apparent against Iceland and when we played Russia. We got a goal in front and blatantly turned off, sat back and hoped to play out time in a game we should have won by three or four.

 

I watched Johanna Konta play tennis yesterday. Lovely girl, lots of talent but lost a game she should have won because she didn't have the mental strength to capitalise on her opponent's self doubt when she twice had the chance. If I'd been her coach I'd have been as ashamed as I've been of Hodgson. 

 

Even socially I read of a school this week which removed the cross of Christianity from its badge out of concern for offending people of other faiths. Comment was made that the other faiths weren't concerned at all (not that it's anything to do with them) but it's the way we've been programmed to concede all the time that's been the big change....and such a disaster in many ways. 

 

Yet we're all affected. Ask yourself how many times you've written something for these threads which you firmly believed to be the truth - then wiped it out due to the hassle it would provoke.

 

Free speech, free choice? Increasingly, both concepts are a myth and we give more ground on a daily basis and all on the basis of other people's real, or contrived, sensibilities. . 

 

Much is connected to multi-culturalism, but not to everyone or even the majority of people in the multi-cultural melting pot.

 

Because lots of incomers settle here seamlessly and with massive, entirely positive, effect. While maintaining and celebrating their own cultures they embrace our country and our culture live here in an entirely complimentary way expecting only the same kind of politeness, respect and opportunity that should be due to anyone. 

 

But others come here to change the place. They openly despise our way of life and want to impose their own. And, for some reason, everyone else seems to step aside and allow it to happen. We've even made, or accepted,  rules to help them.

 

One thing's for sure. They're not soft and they don't compromise unless it's advantageous to do so. To me that sets a damned good example.           

[Finnegan]

Only you could turn a debate about styles of football in to some pseudo neo fascist diatribe about immigration, political correctness and the lilly livered youth of today.

Jesus christ.

[Guest Col city fan]

Agree completely. We're soft mentally as much as physically. It's been programmed into us in schools for decades now and is reflected in so many aspects of society.

Our weekly pub league golf competition was decimated in midweek due to nothing more dramatic than a bit of rain. One pairing I saw even walked off partway through.

How bad was it? Well, it was so warm, none of my three-man group even bothered wearing waterproof tops. One scored level par, the next two under par and the third three under par for nine holes. Hardly "impossible" playing conditions.

Against Iceland the first requirement for England was to compete. Yet so many didn't. We were physical pushovers, literally at times.

Then there's the mental weakness which was so apparent against Iceland and when we played Russia. We got a goal in front and blatantly turned off, sat back and hoped to play out time in a game we should have won by three or four.

I watched Johanna Konta play tennis yesterday. Lovely girl, lots of talent but lost a game she should have won because she didn't have the mental strength to capitalise on her opponent's self doubt when she twice had the chance. If I'd been her coach I'd have been as ashamed as I've been of Hodgson.

Even socially I read of a school this week which removed the cross of Christianity from its badge out of concern for offending people of other faiths. Comment was made that the other faiths weren't concerned at all (not that it's anything to do with them) but it's the way we've been programmed to concede all the time that's been the big change....and such a disaster in many ways.

Yet we're all affected. Ask yourself how many times you've written something for these threads which you firmly believed to be the truth - then wiped it out due to the hassle it would provoke.

Free speech, free choice? Increasingly, both concepts are a myth and we give more ground on a daily basis and all on the basis of other people's real, or contrived, sensibilities. .

Much is connected to multi-culturalism, but not to everyone or even the majority of people in the multi-cultural melting pot.

Because lots of incomers settle here seamlessly and with massive, entirely positive, effect. While maintaining and celebrating their own cultures they embrace our country and our culture live here in an entirely complimentary way expecting only the same kind of politeness, respect and opportunity that should be due to anyone.

But others come here to change the place. They openly despise our way of life and want to impose their own. And, for some reason, everyone else seems to step aside and allow it to happen. We've even made, or accepted, rules to help them.

One thing's for sure. They're not soft and they don't compromise unless it's advantageous to do so. To me that sets a damned good example.

Thracian....you make some great posts, but you must learn the art of precis buddy!

[Manwell Pablo]

Only you could turn a debate about styles of football in to some pseudo neo fascist diatribe about immigration, political correctness and the lilly livered youth of today.

Jesus christ.

Thing that makes me laugh he's sighted out jo Konta without any knowledge about where she's come from or what she's done in the past 12 months because he's watched one game .

[BenTheFox]

Do you think we'll see more teams playing with two strikers and 'proper' defenders? I hope so! 

[BenTheFox]

Spot on. Sick of this hipster crap. If you're good enough like previous Spain squads, Germany etc then fine but we're not. Stop overcomplicating football, get people in behind. Simple.

That's a real problem I have with England. We're trying to be Barcelona without having the players who are technically capable of playing that way effectively.