Houses

[Jon the Hat]

We are supposed to be exchanging today.... everything crossed as I have already signed a lease from tomorrow, paid a deposit and a months rent, and 50% of the removal fees...

[David Guiza]

2 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Why are some firms partners only accepting same day exchange/completions ? This is what I hate about high street law. There seems to be limited practical experience from  partners at that level. Who didn’t have the ability to it at one of the big boys and essentially hold the experience level of an associate at a large firm. 
 

If partners are making this decision on COVID rules changing without consulting their clients, it’s disgraceful. Lawyers are paid to advise, not dictate. 

It's mainly the larger factory firms who are doing so, the same firms that also tend to not exchange until they're in receipt of mortgage funds either. There are countless elements that can 'go wrong' in any Conveyancing matter so I'm not entirely sure where these firms intend to draw the line. There also seems to be an obsession with inserting meaningless riders also.

 

I get the impression that said firms are consulting their clients, but to the extent that they are convincing them that it's the only viable route. The problem then on, of course, is that the rest of the chain are at the whim of one party/their solicitor. 

[Sly]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Some people struggle to see a house without furniture in as a home.  Is there much else on the market in the area?  What does your agent think?

We’ve still got furniture in it. It’s just very minimalist. 
About 18 other houses on the market in the area that are 4 bed and a similar price band. I’ve saved them all on Rightmove, to figure put off it’s us, or the market slowdown. 
 

Our agent thought we’d gone Tat the right price for a quick sale. Not getting a lot of feedback now, so we’re debating if we need a new agent. Frustratingly, this one came highly recommend though. 
 

In relation to FTB, i’d accept a lower offer, to cut out the hassle of being stuck in a chain. 

[Wolfox]

@Greg2607 - how are you getting on?

 

Hopefully not on FoxesTalk as you’re  knee deep in boxes!!!

Edited 23 February 2021 by Wolfox

[FoyleFox]

1 minute ago, Wolfox said:

@Greg2607 - how are you getting on?

 

Hopefully not on FoxesTalk as your knee deep in boxes!!!

I hoped exactly the same. Busy unpacking boxes in the new place rather than retrieving from storage...

[ajthefox]

46 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

We are supposed to be exchanging today.... everything crossed as I have already signed a lease from tomorrow, paid a deposit and a months rent, and 50% of the removal fees...

Fingers crossed all goes well for you Jon.

[Greg2607]

4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

How is it going Greg?  Are you in?

Managed to get in at 16:45 yesterday.  Final removal van turned up at 20:00 and we got unloaded!!

 

It's a new build, so fortunately, site took sympathy with our situation and let us in at 14:00 to start unloading furniture even though we hadn't technically completed (or indeed exchanged) at that point. 

 

I have to say, the site were brilliant. On Saturday they made up a box of things from the show home so that we at least had cups, plates and cutlery!! 🤣🤣

 

It's not an experience of wish to repeat that's for sure!!!

[Greg2607]

23 hours ago, David Guiza said:

What new paperwork needed to be issued? Unless there is a change to a condition or a rider being added etc, the already signed paperwork should still be sufficient. Any amendments to dates can be hand amended and still accepted by the Land Registry.

Awful situation to be in, hope it's worked out for you now. I remember staying until 6:15pm to get a completion through when HSBC just didn't release funds the working day before completion, as they instructed they would, and instead the advance arrived at 17:00pm. I then had to contact the vendor's solicitor who's client was unwilling to allow my client to go in a license for the weekend, despite the fact that the property was vacant and our client was moving from Leicestershire to Kent. We were able to formulate completion in the end, at around 6pm once the money came in and was transferred over. 

 

COVID has had a huge affect on some firms where the partners' will only accept simultaneous exchange/completions. This in turn means that numerous parties have no certainty whatsoever about the date until the completion date itself; I understood that approach to an extent back in the first peak, but it seems far too cautious now as there are always ways to vary the contract is something unforeseen did happen between exchange and completion. 

Our solicitor cocked up paperwork on Friday and because we didn't complete, the solicitors we were buying from insisted on exchange and completion documents with yesterday's date on. 

 

Because we were using HTB, it had to all go back into the system for them to reissue to paperwork. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

5 hours ago, Sly said:

It’s not like it’s got horrendous colours

Post the link to your house and we can judge for ourselves 

[Greg2607]

3 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Why are some firms partners only accepting same day exchange/completions ? This is what I hate about high street law. There seems to be limited practical experience from  partners at that level. Who didn’t have the ability to it at one of the big boys and essentially hold the experience level of an associate at a large firm. 
 

If partners are making this decision on COVID rules changing without consulting their clients, it’s disgraceful. Lawyers are paid to advise, not dictate. 

This was our issue, exchange and completion on same day.  But our solicitor also mucked up the HTB paperwork 

 

We are going to try to get compensation, we are also planning to go to the legal ombudsman is they don't deal with our complaint.  They have been horrific throughout. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, David Guiza said:

It's mainly the larger factory firms who are doing so, the same firms that also tend to not exchange until they're in receipt of mortgage funds either. There are countless elements that can 'go wrong' in any Conveyancing matter so I'm not entirely sure where these firms intend to draw the line. There also seems to be an obsession with inserting meaningless riders also.

 

I get the impression that said firms are consulting their clients, but to the extent that they are convincing them that it's the only viable route. The problem then on, of course, is that the rest of the chain are at the whim of one party/their solicitor. 

I had a friend who was semi retired. Took up a role at a solicitor advisory business. Basically, because of his excellent background went into firms and told them what they were doing wrong and how to improve. He mentioned that he once had an assignment with one of the factories. His advice to them was to rip up all they were doing and start again. 
 

Ive never worked in conveyancing but I have utmost respect and sympathy for those in the profession who do it and do it well. Unfortunately, the legal services act and the undercutting of prices has seriously dumb down the area to a tick box procedure. Good conveyancing lawyers normally cost a bit more then the £350/450 plus searches you get on the high street or conveyancing factory. You’ll get no lower then a Senior Associate dealing and you’ll have practical advice as well as theory. Unfortunately, most consumers go for the cheaper option which is why these firms survive. 
 

There is no reason to delay exchange and completion nor is there any reason to exchange/complete on a simultaneous basis - you draft around it. Essentially stating that if lockdown restricts the move, the parties delay completion until say 5 working days after relaxation of rules and funds are re-received from the lender. This is what the commercial lot are doing and it’s kept large scale investor clients on board. This is year 1 LPC training - draft around the problem! 
 

Rant over. Sorry it infuriates me.

[Mickyblueeyes]

57 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

This was our issue, exchange and completion on same day.  But our solicitor also mucked up the HTB paperwork 

 

We are going to try to get compensation, we are also planning to go to the legal ombudsman is they don't deal with our complaint.  They have been horrific throughout. 

Hold on, so your solicitor dated the documents in agreement with the other side ? So essentially exchanged and completed ?? 
 

This sounds like a major cock up to me...

[Christoph]

1 hour ago, Sly said:

We’ve still got furniture in it. It’s just very minimalist. 
About 18 other houses on the market in the area that are 4 bed and a similar price band. I’ve saved them all on Rightmove, to figure put off it’s us, or the market slowdown. 
 

Our agent thought we’d gone Tat the right price for a quick sale. Not getting a lot of feedback now, so we’re debating if we need a new agent. Frustratingly, this one came highly recommend though. 
 

In relation to FTB, i’d accept a lower offer, to cut out the hassle of being stuck in a chain. 

Wouldn't worry too much about agents. 90% of people are finding and looking at houses through rightmove and zoopla. Agents don't really bring customers for viewings nowadays...more like guide the sale along to those who have shown an interest. 

[Milo]

29 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I had a friend who was semi retired. Took up a role at a solicitor advisory business. Basically, because of his excellent background went into firms and told them what they were doing wrong and how to improve. He mentioned that he once had an assignment with one of the factories. His advice to them was to rip up all they were doing and start again. 
 

Ive never worked in conveyancing but I have utmost respect and sympathy for those in the profession who do it and do it well. Unfortunately, the legal services act and the undercutting of prices has seriously dumb down the area to a tick box procedure. Good conveyancing lawyers normally cost a bit more then the £350/450 plus searches you get on the high street or conveyancing factory. You’ll get no lower then a Senior Associate dealing and you’ll have practical advice as well as theory. Unfortunately, most consumers go for the cheaper option which is why these firms survive. 
 

There is no reason to delay exchange and completion nor is there any reason to exchange/complete on a simultaneous basis - you draft around it. Essentially stating that if lockdown restricts the move, the parties delay completion until say 5 working days after relaxation of rules and funds are re-received from the lender. This is what the commercial lot are doing and it’s kept large scale investor clients on board. This is year 1 LPC training - draft around the problem! 
 

Rant over. Sorry it infuriates me.

Ours were a couple of grand are were sh1t.

 

I kind of got the feeling that if you do really well throughout your law journey of education, training and placements and are switched on, you don't end up in the grind of tick box conveyancing.

 

(Apologies if there is anyone on here who is a top notch, motivated conveyancing solicitor, obviously)    

[Mickyblueeyes]

14 minutes ago, Milo said:

Ours were a couple of grand are were sh1t.

 

I kind of got the feeling that if you do really well throughout your law journey of education, training and placements and are switched on, you don't end up in the grind of tick box conveyancing.

 

(Apologies if there is anyone on here who is a top notch, motivated conveyancing solicitor, obviously)    

Its certainly not the area that most want to qualify in during the journey. Some do enjoy it. For me and a lot of others, its not what you study for. 

[FoyleFox]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

Ours were a couple of grand are were sh1t.

 

I feel a bit better about our solicitor costs now after Micky's £350/450 post, our selling solicitor is £1400 and the purchasing solicitor is £1200. I'm going to guess there'll be extra as they'll have to talk to each other

[David Guiza]

1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I had a friend who was semi retired. Took up a role at a solicitor advisory business. Basically, because of his excellent background went into firms and told them what they were doing wrong and how to improve. He mentioned that he once had an assignment with one of the factories. His advice to them was to rip up all they were doing and start again. 
 

Ive never worked in conveyancing but I have utmost respect and sympathy for those in the profession who do it and do it well. Unfortunately, the legal services act and the undercutting of prices has seriously dumb down the area to a tick box procedure. Good conveyancing lawyers normally cost a bit more then the £350/450 plus searches you get on the high street or conveyancing factory. You’ll get no lower then a Senior Associate dealing and you’ll have practical advice as well as theory. Unfortunately, most consumers go for the cheaper option which is why these firms survive. 
 

There is no reason to delay exchange and completion nor is there any reason to exchange/complete on a simultaneous basis - you draft around it. Essentially stating that if lockdown restricts the move, the parties delay completion until say 5 working days after relaxation of rules and funds are re-received from the lender. This is what the commercial lot are doing and it’s kept large scale investor clients on board. This is year 1 LPC training - draft around the problem! 
 

Rant over. Sorry it infuriates me.

Completely agree.

 

It's the same with any other service in that you generally get what you pay for. If one were to pay peanuts for a factory firm then the likelihood is that they'll speak to a different person every time you call, that's if they can get through at all, and the process will be a long and stressful 3 months+. If they were to pay for a better quality Solicitor's firm who also happen to have a Property department then they are far more likely to get expert advise where necessary and not a box ticking exercise, as you mention.

 

I worked in commercial and residential property for a years as I fell into it from Uni and have a varied experience from working at a larger firm in Birmingham that I hated to working at a traditional firm that had been round since the late 1800s where it was far more enjoyable and I worked alongside colleagues with far better expertise and academic/working background. Without meaning to come across as a snob, it amazed me that some of the people I encountered had managed to get a job in a Solicitors' firm. 

 

I have no idea which area I'd like to specialise in long term, but there are countless that I'd happily avoid like the plague. 

[Wolfox]

2 hours ago, Christoph said:

Wouldn't worry too much about agents. 90% of people are finding and looking at houses through rightmove and zoopla. Agents don't really bring customers for viewings nowadays...more like guide the sale along to those who have shown an interest. 

Used Oliver Rayns in Clarendon Park…. A young outfit, but, they were ace at supporting a large chain and difficult process all round…. Did all the viewings and got it sold…. Well worth what I paid them and they really earned it

 

 

[RonnieTodger]

6 hours ago, RonnieTodger said:

Yeah, I agree. The way we're looking at it, is that if the asking price was £10k higher, we would've gone for it at that price. We saw another one in the same area, that wasn't quite as nice on at £10k higher than this one too.

 

We didn't quite go £10k above in the end. Conscious of the estate agent playing a blinder for the vendor  

 

Lets see what happens!

Offer accepted, as long as I can get the mortgage having been on/off furlough.

That shouldn’t be a problem, given our conversations with advisors/lenders. 

 

Feeling pleased. Obviously there’s that “did we pay too much” feeling (we probably did). But the house was originally on for more than our final offer. 
 

We ended up £7,500 over the revised price, but we think it’s worth it. We’re paying £600 p/m rent, so the sooner we move out, the more we save in that regard. 
 

If this thread has taught me anything, it’s that this is just the start  

[Sly]

7 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Post the link to your house and we can judge for ourselves 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-77887170.html

 

It’s grey, white and magnolia! 
 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 hour ago, Sly said:

It’s grey, white and magnolia! 

 

Nice, clean, fresh, tidy.

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/house-prices/rush-meet-stamp-duty-deadline-pushed-house-prices-58k/

 

'Rush to meet stamp duty deadline pushed up house prices by £58k'

'Properties bought by homemovers – those who aren't first-time buyers – climbed in value by 15.5pc in the six months to December 2020'

[Mickyblueeyes]

18 hours ago, Milo said:

Ours were a couple of grand are were sh1t.

 

I kind of got the feeling that if you do really well throughout your law journey of education, training and placements and are switched on, you don't end up in the grind of tick box conveyancing.

 

(Apologies if there is anyone on here who is a top notch, motivated conveyancing solicitor, obviously)    

 

17 hours ago, FoyleFox said:

I feel a bit better about our solicitor costs now after Micky's £350/450 post, our selling solicitor is £1400 and the purchasing solicitor is £1200. I'm going to guess there'll be extra as they'll have to talk to each other

Were those fees all inclusive of all cost or just legal fees. If it was all inclusive, you’d pay around 350/400 for searches. Around 150 for Land registry costs. Perhaps £150 for dealing with a lender. Which leaves around £700 for legal costs. Which is better then the very very low figures you can get but think about it from a business perspective. A high street solicitor at SA level is still on a good salary (above £45k  excluding bonus pay). They have targets per year of at least £150k/£175k. 
 

Which file are you going to take or push through ? The one off residential purchase which won’t make a dent in your monthly target or the £2500/£3500 excluding disbursements (I.e. the figures above) from an investor client who will bring you a steady stream of income over the year. 
 

The problem with conveyancing and the services being received by the consumer has been brought about by the law society and govt allowing anyone to practice in the area with basic training. The Legal Services Act was aimed (among other things) to bring more transparency but instead it’s made high street firms re-think (in a cost cutting manner) how to offer the services without making a loss. This means most firms give the file to an inexperienced paralegal or a junior lawyer still learning their trade. If it’s a basic file, it’s ok. However, if you are in the current scenario or something slightly technical comes about, just like any junior or inexperienced person, they buckle - which I can’t blame them for. Law (all Law) is bloody hard when it’s technical. It’s a volume game now so supervision is slim to none. 
 

Unfortunately, this is why the consumer suffers. Which is ridiculous when the vast majority of property acquisition is a major investment for most people. 
 

I’m lucky that I’ve never touched conveyancing in my career but I still studied the process during my academics. There is so much to it then instructions - searches - exchange and completion. And the consumer is losing that “expert” advice because very hard working people are to some extent being exploited. 

P.S why are you paying your solicitor more for your sale then your purchase - it’s usually the other way around based on the work involved. 

 

 

[FoyleFox]

Our costs are all-inclusive of fees etc. The quote had a breakdown of the fees, but I don't recall the exact figures, £700 for legal services sounds familiar.

One is a Northern Ireland rate and one an England rate I'd guess. We did have quotes approximately £200 - 300 for the Solicitor acting for the sale, but we've used her several times and were happy to reinstruct rather than go with an unknown for a small saving, especially as this time it's our home.

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stamp-duty-holiday-will-be-extended-to-end-of-june-gc0qfrckz

'Stamp duty holiday will be extended to end of June'