2018 Russia World Cup Qualifying

[isaidno]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

US OUT?

 

Will be if it stays the same.

[Dan LCFC]

Panama are in. Sensational.

[ozleicester]

Full time. Panama and Honduras win..  USA lose... Out

[isaidno]

USA lose 2-1. Panama win to qualify. Honduras vs Australia 

[Dan LCFC]

USA are out. This is astonishing. Honduras make the play-offs and face Australia.

 

What a night. I'm gonna pay for this tomorrow but no regrets.

[Detroit Blues]

So this is what it feels like to be relegated.... 

[Guest MattP]

Well that was worth staying up for. What a night of football.

 

Can't ever remember a World Cup without the Yanks, sad to see them out really but what a day for Panama.

 

 

[KingsX]

3 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

So this is what it feels like to be relegated.... 

Relegated from CONCACAF?  More like Leyton Orient than a drop to the Championship.  I hope the Grouper has his resignation letter handy.

[Jordan]

Have fun next summer, fellas.

 

If anyone needs me, I’ll be curled up in a fetal position in my bedroom for the next few days/weeks/months/years.

[ozleicester]

Fkin talk sport ( sorry Geoff) talking about Syria v the USA.

 

THEY ARE BOTH OUT...Talk about the teams that are IN.

[Nalis]

Hope Australia win the play off game v Honduras, cant remember a single thing of note from them in any previous World Cup apart from being a dirty bunch.

 

Happy to see either Peru or NZ in the World Cup, prob have a preference for Peru.

[purpleronnie]

Mixed feelings about that.

 

Certainly won't miss the USA USA chants.

 

I told you yanks you had a tough group.

 

Still a joke that 4th out of 6 in a really poor group can qualify.

Edited 11 October 2017 by purpleronnie

[Kitchandro]

Really gutted that 2 of my favourite international teams, Chile and the USA, are out. Along with Mexico, they're always the most entertaining sides to watch.

 

It's really surprising as well as they've both been amongst the most progressive nations over the past 10 years. I think they'll be a real loss to the World Cup.

 

I'm hoping Colombia are at least half the side they were 3 years ago, after how good they were in 2014 it's nice to see them make it.

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 October 2017 by Kitchandro

[the fox]

imagine thinking messi isn't the greatest footballer ever

man dragged his team to the world cup. no one is even close in ability to leo, battling the top midfielders in playmaking and and at the top the goal scoring charts year in year out.

[Finnegan]

So wait, hang on, Peru go through because Paolo shot from an indirect free kick but Ospina got a touch so it counts!?

 

Meanwhile Panama go through with a goal that didn't cross the line!?

 

What on Earth. 

 

 

[the fox]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

So wait, hang on, Peru go through because Paolo shot from an indirect free kick but Ospina got a touch so it counts!?

 

Meanwhile Panama go through with a goal that didn't cross the line!?

 

What on Earth. 

 

 

here is an even funnier one that i got while i was browsing reddit

 

"The points that Chile took from Bolivia by having an ineligible player in the bench, helped Peru even more. Peru had lost its game against Bolivia and Chile had tied it. That point would have made all the difference today."

[Alf Bentley]

9 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

Would love to stay up and follow developments in the Central and South American qualifying groups tonight, but too much to do tomorrow.

 

I expect to wake up to hear about all the melodrama:

- at least one side completely imploding; 

- a 20-man brawl;

- at least 4 red cards; 

- at least 2 massively controversial refereeing decisions;

- at least 3 goals in injury time;

- a pitch invasion

 

I reckon....

CONCACAF: USA will snaffle the final automatic spot and Panama will hold off Honduras to make the play-off

South America: I reckon Chile & Peru might be the losers in the game of musical chairs: Uruguay to ease through, Argentina to pull-off a last-gasp win in Ecuador, Colombia to get a draw in Peru, Paraguay to beat Venezuela to make the play-off v. the Kiwis, while the Chileans and Peruvians are left face-down on the pitch..... but what do I know?

 

Not TOO far off, was I?

Correct about Uruguay, Argentina, Peru/Colombia, Chile & Panama/Honduras....just didn't foresee the Paraguay & USA debacles....but maybe they were the "implosions" I was predicting? 

Didn't get all of my melodrama list, but there were implosions, controversial decisions and late goals. I see 2 players got red cards in the same minute in Paraguay v. Venezuela - was that a "brawl/handbags" scenario?

 

Mind you, that's the sort of "not too far off" that has you regularly losing megabucks on accumulators if you start believing your own publicity. 

 

Pleased that Panama made it - good to have a second debutant. Pleased that Argentina made it as they usually have something significant to offer. Pleased Colombia made it just because I loved the friendly, bonkers Colombians I met over there in 1990. Hope Peru win their play-off - one of the teams that had something to offer (like humiliating Scotland!) back in my youth. Chile are a bit of a loss, potentially - an attractive side in recent years - but not so much Paraguay....if Tony Pulis managed international sides, he'd be managing Paraguay. Don't know who I'd prefer out of the Aussies and Honduras, probably the Aussies as a few of their fans will turn up and Cahill probably deserves a last hurrah.

Edited 11 October 2017 by Alf Bentley

[Nalis]

26 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

So wait, hang on, Peru go through because Paolo shot from an indirect free kick but Ospina got a touch so it counts!?

 

I guess its the same logic as Fuchs launching a long throw at a keeper who gets a fingertip to it before it goes in. Goal still counts in both scenarios though it would have been brave for Ospina to leave it if he wasnt 100% sure it was an indirect free kick.

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I guess its the same logic as Fuchs launching a long throw at a keeper who gets a fingertip to it before it goes in. Goal still counts in both scenarios though it would have been brave for Ospina to leave it if he wasnt 100% sure it was an indirect free kick.

 

Oh yeah I'm not arguing about the rules, just crazy days. 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, the fox said:

imagine thinking messi isn't the greatest footballer ever

man dragged his team to the world cup. no one is even close in ability to leo, battling the top midfielders in playmaking and and at the top the goal scoring charts year in year out.

Maradona dragged an even worse Argentina team to actually lifting the World Cup.

[Guest MattP]

29 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Not TOO far off, was I?

Correct about Uruguay, Argentina, Peru/Colombia, Chile & Panama/Honduras....just didn't foresee the Paraguay & USA debacles....but maybe they were the "implosions" I was predicting? 

Didn't get all of my melodrama list, but there were implosions, controversial decisions and late goals. I see 2 players got red cards in the same minute in Paraguay v. Venezuela - was that a "brawl/handbags" scenario?

Yep 

 

Player headbutted each other, carried out fighting in the tunnel, last image I saw was riot police flying into the tunnel

 

The Paraguayans were starting to behave like animals in the last few minutes.

[purpleronnie]

11 minutes ago, MattP said:

Yep 

 

Player headbutted each other, carried out fighting in the tunnel, last image I saw was riot police flying into the tunnel

 

The Paraguayans were starting to behave like animals in the last few minutes.

Who'd of thought those South Americans would be so feisty.

[the fox]

34 minutes ago, MattP said:

Maradona dragged an even worse Argentina team to actually lifting the World Cup.

have a read

 

"

The Manager: Carlos Bilardo

Dr Bilardo should go down in history not only as a great manager, but as a great character, too. To call him a perfectionist would be an understatement. After seeing his side win the World Cup final 3-2, he still berated his defenders after the game for conceding from two set pieces after being 2-0 up. Centre-back José Luis Brown claims that only half an hour after winning the tournament, he was already thinking about the next World Cup in 1990.

His selections and tactics were rarely popular with the public, but he was never phased by peer pressure. If it hadn’t been for his controversial decision to make Maradona captain ahead of Daniel Passarella, who had captained his country to its first World Cup victory only eight years earlier, the summer of 1986 may not have panned out in the way it did.

Something which is forgotten is that Maradona did not have the legendary status he enjoys now before 1986; far from it. Following his red card for losing his temper at the 1982 World Cup, he suffered two very difficult years at Barcelona. A bout of hepatitis and bad injury problems, coupled with controversy on the field, the climax of which was a brawl in the 1984 Copa del Rey final against Athletic Bilbao during which he knocked out an opposing player, led to his not representing his country between 1982 and 1985.

In that time, Bilardo still showed some support for his future star. As coach of the national team he made a habit of regularly visiting his overseas players—he would visit the players at their clubs, show them video tapes and even rehearse set-pieces with them using borrowed team-mates—and he treated Maradona no differently even when he was out of the national set-up. This helped build a trust between the manager and his talisman.

But what proved to be even more important than his nurturing of Diego was his decision to give him the captaincy and build his team around him. This caused him to play at his very best, and the fruits of his labour are talked about to this day. Argentina could not have won the World Cup without Maradona, but Maradona could not have reached the level that he did without Dr Bilardo. This is the first example of the team not being reliant on one man.

The Squad

In the build-up to the final, West Germany coach Franz Beckenbauer described La Selección as close to perfection and without an obvious weakness. He wasn’t far off. The team was set up beautifully both to play to its best in every area of the pitch and to get the best out of the likes of Maradona, Burruchaga and Valdano.

Tactics

With the exception of the little number 10, the Argentine side was under strict tactical instruction. Bilardo used a European-style 3-5-2, with Brown as sweeper and José Luis Cuciuffo and Oscar Ruggeri as the two other central defenders. The midfield five was designed to dominate the opposition and allow Maradona the freedom to produce flashes of brilliance. Such tactical shrewdness was relatively new to Argentina. The team’s number seven, Jorge Burruchaga, said:

‘”Bilardo saw football in a way we were not used to in Argentina – tactical, the way you were supposed to live, the way you were expected to think.” “As a coach, first of all he thinks about the ‘nil’, making sure no goals are scored against you.”

A team like set up like this cannot rely on one man, or it will surely be doomed to fail. Maradona was expected to do the lion’s share of the creation, but this does not mean that he was dragging the rest of the team along with him; there are many sides even today who use this blueprint of tactical rigidity with one playmaker free to string the team’s attacks together.

The Defence

Argentina conceded five goals in the tournament—and only three until two set pieces in the final—a defensive record which has been matched or beaten by every World Cup-winning team since, but the defence was a most impressive unit. Only having a defensive three meant that they were much more vulnerable at the back, particularly as wide player Ricardo Giusti preferred attacking much more to defensive work.

Nery Pumpido, who had won the Copa Libertadores with River Plate earlier that year at a time when South American domestic football was much more respected than it is now, was a strong goalkeeper with excellent positioning. Oscar Ruggeri, also at River Plate in 1986, was the right-sided central player at the back. One of Argentina’s greatest defenders, he went on to represent his country 97 times and was one of the World Cup winners’ best players at the tournament. On the other side was José Luis Cuciuffo—an intelligent defender who often roamed up the field to create chances, reminiscent of Laurent Koscielny at Arsenal.

José Luis Brown, who scored the opening goal in the final and also played the last minutes with a badly injured shoulder, was one of the key cogs in the brawn of the team. Only in the team due to an injury to Passarella, he performed brilliantly in every single match and was one of the main reasons why his team only conceded three goals in the six matches before the final. He had a great footballing brain, as is evidenced by the successful coaching career he forged after retirement, but it was also his lack of fear that helped him do so well as a sweeper.

Julio Olarticoechea was actually the left-hand part of the midfield five, but was used more as a wing-back with the attacking-minded Giusti on the other side. He is probably the least famous of the team who started in the final of the tournament, but his contribution is still worth mentioning as he did an excellent job of breaking up the opposition’s play on his side.

The “other” key players

Probably the two most famous players in the side other than Maradona were the two Jorges: Burruchaga and Valdano.

Valdano, named La Liga’s Foreign Player of the Year in 1985-86, had just won La Liga and the UEFA Cup with Real Madrid and was at the peak of his powers. He only scored seven goals for Argentina, but four came in the 1986 World Cup and one of them came in the final itself.

Burruchaga, scorer of the winner in the final, was also plying his trade in Europe, for French side Nantes in 1986. He was a key player in every area of the pitch. A great all-round footballer, his work rate was a sight to behold, but he could start attacks as well. He was almost as important as Maradona, but in a less memorable way.

The Unsung Heroes in Midfield

If Argentina had had weaker players than Ricardo Giusti, Sergio Batista and Héctor Enrique in their midfield, the team’s passage to the final may not have been as simple, and what is for sure is that the final proper would have been a very different story without them. Giusti was able to create enough trouble on the right side to allow his team-mates to get into space; Batista served as a dominant enforcer for the whole 90 minutes; Enrique, with Maradona being closely marked by Lothar Matthäus, did a great job of stringing attacks together.

This team certainly was not a one-man show. In fact, although it had an obvious best player, it did not have a solitary talisman. Burruchaga, Valdano and even the likes of Brown, Ruggeri and Batista could be relied upon to produce when it mattered at any point and in any situation.

The Statistics

Maradona’s staggering five goals and five assists means that he was “directly” involved in ten out of his team’s 14 goals at the tournament. However, this overemphasises his contribution to the team as the other ten players on the pitch in each game did a lot for the overall match, be it in terms of “doing the dirty work” by covering ground, defensive action, number of passes or just build-up to the goals.

Football, and just football statistics alone, is far more than goals and assists. General play is the most important of all, in which Maradona contributed massively, but which is always a team effort, but this chart goes some way to showing that the team were less reliant on their number 10 and more the supporting cast to his efforts. It looks at everything a player can do to affect his team’s goal difference in a match, be it through anything from defensive performance to work off the ball. The fact that Maradona’s “PeakGI” (goal impact) is not high enough to be on this list suggests that the 1986 Argentina team were not as reliant on him as other teams in the past.

The Matches

The best evidence for Argentina’s 1986 World Cup win being a team effort is in the matches, not the statistics. Certainly, in the matches against England and Belgium it was Maradona’s genius (and tenacity, such as the “Hand of God”) that got his team to the finish line, but it was the team’s and manager’s efforts which allowed him the opportunity to create the chances, goals and history.

The matches themselves are the most important things of all when it comes to judging this tournament and thankfully, there is close to full footage of Argentina’s 1986 campaign—featuring the entirety of the final; the match which best demonstrates the whole team’s efforts.

West Germany went into the final with a very clear gameplan: Stop Maradona at all costs. Lothar Matthäus was given the task of man-marking the playmaker, which he did very impressively throughout the entire match. What made it even more difficult for the 5ft 5in man was that whenever the ball came near him, someone would usually join Matthäus and he’d effectively have two men on him.

This is where the team as a whole came into its own. Quite incredibly, Maradona found a way to stamp his mark on the game: In one of the few moments where he found space in front of him his brilliant first-time ball through to Burruchaga allowed Argentina to retake the lead. However, this was the team’s final and not any individual’s.

Over the 90 minutes, the eventual winners were simply too good for the West Germans. In fact, Beckenbauer’s men had no right to bring the score back to 2-2 from the two set-pieces—their only two convincing chances of the game—and had it not been for the two defensive lapses which so angered Bilardo, Maradona’s moment of genius mat not have been needed. Even before the two German goals, the Argentines had multiple chances to make the score 3-0 and beyond.

Such a dominant performance was thanks to every man in the team doing his job perfectly. The defence barely let the opposition near the goal; the midfield made the middle of the park their own by breaking up their opponents’ play and starting multiple attacks; Valdano took his chance for the second goal brilliantly; Maradona produced the crucial moment of magic when he was able to find himself some space. Had it not been for the two German goals, it would have been the most perfect of big-game performances."

 

 

 

it's called a TEAM not a group of players, chemistry is much more important than having a group of talented footballers (the 2015/2016 leicester team stand as a proof of that)
and just to add, in the last 8 games that argentina played in the  qualifiers, messi and the other team's own mistake combined for all the goals.
sadly, messi doesnt have an eder to win him a final. watching the peru game when he was feeding his teammates and they were bottling it was painful

Edited 11 October 2017 by the fox

[AKCJ]

43 minutes ago, MattP said:

Maradona dragged an even worse Argentina team to actually lifting the World Cup.

Only Messi has scored a goal for Argentina in the last 11 months. They're utterly horrendous.

 

 

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Only Messi has scored a goal for Argentina in the last 11 months. They're utterly horrendous.

 

 

 

Which is absurd when you think:

 

Icardi, Dybala, Di Maria, Pastore, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain, Salvo, Gomez, Acosta, Correa. 

 

I mean, if they were losing games 6-5 or something because of how dreadful their defence is then you'd think fair enough. 

 

But jesus Christ.