For 2017/18 we need to evolve into a more possesion based side.

[ScouseFox]

59 minutes ago, Wookie said:

Because we had the space to play direct through balls in behind, now we don't have the space so now we have to use the ball better.

using the ball better is completely different to becoming a possession based side though. 

 

we still need to move the ball forward quickly, we just need to do so without booting it straight out of play or to the other team. 

[Stadt]

Just now, ScouseFox said:

using the ball better is completely different to becoming a possession based side though. 

 

we still need to move the ball forward quickly, we just need to do so without booting it straight out of play or to the other team. 

Yeah of course but we're so wasteful in possession, the ball goes back to Huth and then it's usually an opposition throw in

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, rmahrez said:

This table shows that there is almost no correlation between average possession and league position, from last season.

 

 

It's all about using possession efficiently, as we did extremely well last year.

 

Funny I look at that table and the six teams at the top just happen to be the best six sides in the country this season.

 

I'm sure if you did this with any other country there is a direct correlation between possession and success. Last year us winning the title with that amount of possession was an anomaly and not something we should be basing our future on.  Last season we broke the opposition lines with quick turnover and pace what seemed like several times a match and now it's hardly ever.

 

If we try and follow last year's blueprint we'll get gradually worse before relegation in a year or two. We haven't discovered a new way of winning football matches that trumps all others.

 

Possession is key as you can score and won't concede when you have it but possession for the sake of it is meaningless.

[Koke]

4 minutes ago, Wookie said:

Yeah of course but we're so wasteful in possession, the ball goes back to Huth and then it's usually an opposition throw in

 

The amount of times Huth passes it back to Kasper because he doesn't know what to do with. Kasper then boots it up field and the opposition have the ball back. Morgan and Simpson aren't much better with their aimless hoofing either.

 

The ball is treated like an ebola virus.

[Koke]

14 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said:

I agree with you, I really want Claudio to succeed.

If we do achieve 14th, he stays and we must learn from the summer mistakes.

I just hope he gets us right and we survive, I'm not sure at present.

 

I think we will be fine because we have much better players than the bottom 5/6. We're better than the bottom 3 + Palace and Middlesbrough. 

 

Summer of 2017 will be vital. We can't afford another bad window. 

[Monsell1976]

13 minutes ago, Koke said:

 

I think we will be fine because we have much better players than the bottom 5/6. We're better than the bottom 3 + Palace and Middlesbrough. 

 

Summer of 2017 will be vital. We can't afford another bad window. 

Do hope your right, we really do need to get the season going now though, as the frustration in this thread I can agree with as well, but I like Claudio and want it to work.

I think he see's out the season, no matter what, and then we will see where we are.

[fuchsntf]

We have failed miserably, to use our big advantage of pace, and ball into space.

We need not so much posession, but the confidence of holding the ball , not to feel

rushed, so be confident in individual posession, and know and see the pass, not pass in panic.

 

Our delivery across the frontline has been poor, our delivery from midfield has been poor, or not

Forthcoming, we have been too long on the backfoot, and too deep.Our forays forwards are less

and nobody is daring to start any attacking movement.Intensity has disappeaered.

I am hoping that Mendy/Drinkwater/Ndidi combination will grow, and at least for this season be good

enough against teams outside the top 8-10.  From 17 games we need 10 good results.Not to be safe but

to put some pride back into a poor league season.

A small run to build confidence, it might mean making this  run away from home.

Burnley, Bournemouth, West.brom, have shown more this season, we need to compete at their level

at least. 

 

 

 

 

[Kitchandro]

3 hours ago, Koke said:

 

Passing around the back for 90 minutes is preferable to hoofing it aimlessly and giving the ball away.

 

Our ball retention is horrific and it needs to be addressed in the summer. 

How? At least hoofing it gives us some sort of chance of them making a mistake and us pouncing on it. You can't possibly score passing it across the back.

 

Now I agree that we give the ball away far too easily and that needs to improve but that's not the same as becoming a possession based side. Do you not realise that we succeeded last season because we weren't like other sides in that way?

 

Half our problem is that we've tried to become more possession based and more slow in the build up, that's why we're reliant on individual players like Mahrez and Gray to go round someone etc. That's also why we've had players like Albrighton and Drinkwater picking the ball up deep in their own half and playing long hopeful balls when we need them being given it in the final third where they can make some of their quality count. The majority of our players are not suited to slow tempo passing football, in fact some of them can't pass the ball at all.

 

What we need to do is get back to pressing, high tempo game we had last season, giving other teams no time on the ball and winning it high up the pitch, thus giving our attacking players (and quick players) a platform to get their defenders 1-on-1 or even in behind. This also makes it easier for us to pick out our own players and pass the ball quicker.

 

We'll likely never compete with the top teams trying to outpass them but we had found away to effectively nullify their strengths and make the most of their weaknesses. Basically, we had a philosophy, which worked, and we've not stuck to it enough this season. Last night we gave them far too much respect, that's why we lost so badly.

 

Not much needed to change from last season - we needed to replace kante sufficiently and strenghten the squad to improve specific positions and give us options when players were out of form. But we've failed to do those things.

 

I don't understand why people think going away from last season's philosophy was or is the right thing to do.

[Kitchandro]

3 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

Funny I look at that table and the six teams at the top just happen to be the best six sides in the country this season.

 

I'm sure if you did this with any other country there is a direct correlation between possession and success. Last year us winning the title with that amount of possession was an anomaly and not something we should be basing our future on.  Last season we broke the opposition lines with quick turnover and pace what seemed like several times a match and now it's hardly ever.

 

If we try and follow last year's blueprint we'll get gradually worse before relegation in a year or two. We haven't discovered a new way of winning football matches that trumps all others.

 

Possession is key as you can score and won't concede when you have it but possession for the sake of it is meaningless.

Completely disagree.

The reason the top 6 sides are where they are is because they have the best players, not because their style is better. We didn't have the best players apart from 2 or 3 gems, yet we finished above them all.

 

Even Conte realised that with Italy he didn't have the best individual players at the Euros but he was clever enough not to try and beat them at their own game. Ditto Coleman with Wales and Simeone with Athletico Madrid. Possession based teams like Spain and Belgium highlighted what we proved last season. That whilst possession football was not quite on it's way out, it was beatable, and no longer the only way to play, which is what people had been led to believe during the Barcelona/Spain glory years.

 

England would be much better served if we stopped trying to be like Spain & Belgium when we have such inferior players. That's why we fail so miserably, we don't have a philosophy that complements the players we have (or any philosophy at all for that matter).

 

It's ludicrous to suggest we're failing this badly this season because we're doing what we did last season. Completely ridiculous. Read back what you're saying. It doesn't make any sense.

 

It's not luck or any of that bollocks, it's that we haven't implemented our philosophy well enough this season. The tempo has been poor, the effort has been lacking and we're not pressing high enough. Individuals have lost form or completely downed tools. We've not replaced Kante. We've not strenghtened the squad adequately.

 

It's laughable to say what you're suggesting, that last season's style didn't really work and it was mostly luck.

[STUHILL]

9 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

How? At least hoofing it gives us some sort of chance of them making a mistake and us pouncing on it. You can't possibly score passing it across the back.

 

Now I agree that we give the ball away far too easily and that needs to improve but that's not the same as becoming a possession based side. Do you not realise that we succeeded last season because we weren't like other sides in that way?

 

Half our problem is that we've tried to become more possession based and more slow in the build up, that's why we're reliant on individual players like Mahrez and Gray to go round someone etc. That's also why we've had players like Albrighton and Drinkwater picking the ball up deep in their own half and playing long hopeful balls when we need them being given it in the final third where they can make some of their quality count. The majority of our players are not suited to slow tempo passing football, in fact some of them can't pass the ball at all.

 

What we need to do is get back to pressing, high tempo game we had last season, giving other teams no time on the ball and winning it high up the pitch, thus giving our attacking players (and quick players) a platform to get their defenders 1-on-1 or even in behind. This also makes it easier for us to pick out our own players and pass the ball quicker.

 

We'll likely never compete with the top teams trying to outpass them but we had found away to effectively nullify their strengths and make the most of their weaknesses. Basically, we had a philosophy, which worked, and we've not stuck to it enough this season. Last night we gave them far too much respect, that's why we lost so badly.

 

Not much needed to change from last season - we needed to replace kante sufficiently and strenghten the squad to improve specific positions and give us options when players were out of form. But we've failed to do those things.

 

I don't understand why people think going away from last season's philosophy was or is the right thing to do.

This is what I can't get my head around. We were lauded to the Footballing world for our constant pressing and in your face style, that caused even the best players in the league to struggle to cope with. No matter what formation, or what players we use or who we are up against, there is 0 excuse for not pressing like we did last season. 

 

On the odd occassions we have done it this season, we have been a success and yet the next game we go back to standing off and giving the opposition time and space, just like today. It really does baffle me!

[davieG]

Teams are playing deeper when we have the ball so there isn't  the same space for Vardy to get, control and move with the ball. So many times this season when it's  been tried you see Vardy chasing after a ball that goes out of play, or sails over his head because the space isn't  there. 

[lgfualol]

6 hours ago, STUHILL said:

This is what I can't get my head around. We were lauded to the Footballing world for our constant pressing and in your face style, that caused even the best players in the league to struggle to cope with. No matter what formation, or what players we use or who we are up against, there is 0 excuse for not pressing like we did last season. 

 

On the odd occassions we have done it this season, we have been a success and yet the next game we go back to standing off and giving the opposition time and space, just like today. It really does baffle me!

This is really true. It's like we are so desperate for space so we can play like last season that we let them get as close to our goal as possible before eventually trying to tackle and chipping the ball out of play. Teams know exactly what we'll do. What they won't expect now is if we press and pass the ball along the floor (although passing accuractly is a tough job for most of the lads) it's pretty much how we have most of our Prem goals this season.

[StanSP]

Agree with the OP but also agree about using possession more efficiently. We need to be more intelligent on the ball. Last year we had the 'surprise' factor in that many teams underestimated us and didn't know how we would play. This season teams are finding it ridiculously easy to play against us and overcome anything we put together. 

 

In order to be more efficient with possession though we need better players with the ball at their feet. This would include eventually replacing both centre backs (something that some would say should be done already). It irritates me that we'd hoof balls up to Chilwell and Vardy especially when the latter was going up against Cahill & Luiz. And even more irritating that if Vardy did win a header there was barely anyone around him within 15-20 yards of him.

 

Also agree with @Koke that I'd rather we be patient at times and just keep the ball for a period of time as opposed to whacking it up and gifting possession away. Get a sense of calm in to the players. Chelsea yesterday did this to a tee. They didn't mind passing it around the back 3 or having Alonso spray it across to Moses. Keep the ball and the opposition can't score. We're just not good enough right now at consistently unsettling teams by frustrating them in not letting them have the ball. 

[Chico1958]

Just out of interest

 

I've just been reading an interview that was done on one of the Chelsea sites

 

It was with Zola and Jimmy Floyd, in it they were talking about when CR was at Chelsea

 

Key Points:

• Took over an aging Team
• Started bringing in younger players
• Changed systems to see how players could adapt
• Started looking at the youth development
• Had "chats" with older players telling them that they wouldn't be playing so often
• Could be very straight with players about performance and future
• They said it not me " Left  Jose the Team that went on to win the League "

I'm not sure what site it was on as I picked it up on LCFC News Now but worh a read if anyone doubts Claudio's current performance.

 

Although it does seem very similar to what is happening in the here and now.

[m4DD0gg]

Squad needs an overhaul thats for sure.

 

A back four for who couldn't kick a ball straight other than fuchs and with an average age of 30 plus. A 35 year old liability as cover at CB is pathetic.

 

With the exception of Ndidi (based on 2 good performances) not one of the players we spent 80m on looks anything other than down right ordinary.

 

Two players touted in god knows how many world wide football awards and then completely anonymous for most of the season.

[Koke]

10 hours ago, Kitchandro said:

How? At least hoofing it gives us some sort of chance of them making a mistake and us pouncing on it. You can't possibly score passing it across the back.

 

Now I agree that we give the ball away far too easily and that needs to improve but that's not the same as becoming a possession based side. Do you not realise that we succeeded last season because we weren't like other sides in that way?

 

Half our problem is that we've tried to become more possession based and more slow in the build up, that's why we're reliant on individual players like Mahrez and Gray to go round someone etc. That's also why we've had players like Albrighton and Drinkwater picking the ball up deep in their own half and playing long hopeful balls when we need them being given it in the final third where they can make some of their quality count. The majority of our players are not suited to slow tempo passing football, in fact some of them can't pass the ball at all.

 

What we need to do is get back to pressing, high tempo game we had last season, giving other teams no time on the ball and winning it high up the pitch, thus giving our attacking players (and quick players) a platform to get their defenders 1-on-1 or even in behind. This also makes it easier for us to pick out our own players and pass the ball quicker.

 

We'll likely never compete with the top teams trying to outpass them but we had found away to effectively nullify their strengths and make the most of their weaknesses. Basically, we had a philosophy, which worked, and we've not stuck to it enough this season. Last night we gave them far too much respect, that's why we lost so badly.

 

Not much needed to change from last season - we needed to replace kante sufficiently and strenghten the squad to improve specific positions and give us options when players were out of form. But we've failed to do those things.

 

I don't understand why people think going away from last season's philosophy was or is the right thing to do.

 

Because we can play like last season against the top 6. But when we're at home for the other 13 teams we need a different approach.  We're heavily reliant on individual creativity whereas a team like Bournemouth rely on team creativity. The latter is more sustainable than the former.

 

We just need to treat the ball better. Our ball retention is horrific. 

[Koke]

2 hours ago, m4DD0gg said:

Squad needs an overhaul thats for sure.

 

A back four for who couldn't kick a ball straight other than fuchs and with an average age of 30 plus. A 35 year old liability as cover at CB is pathetic.

 

With the exception of Ndidi (based on 2 good performances) not one of the players we spent 80m on looks anything other than down right ordinary.

 

Two players touted in god knows how many world wide football awards and then completely anonymous for most of the season.

 

If we have another bad window I can undoubtedly see us declining even further and be in a Swansea type of situation in a season or two.

[CosbehFox]

14 hours ago, Tuna said:

We needed to do this last summer. In fact I was sure we would, it should have been forseen that the tactics from last season would eventually have been found out. They have been and now we are in a bit of a problem.

 

It's my personal belief that Ranieri will retire at the end of the season. Lets hope that we somehow survive in the premier league and enter a new era at the end of the season with a new man in charge with fresh ideas and a fresh approach. Either way he needs to go in the summer.

 

Last season will never be forgotten, but I cannot forgive the fact we did not take advantage of it in the summer to strengthen and evolve.

I don't think you are far off there (Ranieri retirement). I think it's  been pretty clear the target is 40 points. Have a go at Seville and if the cup goes well, it goes well.

 

It's not so much about keeping the ball, it's just about being better on the ball. 

 

 

[somebum]

I dont agree at all. Possession stats are nonsense. We need to improve our supply routes to our forwards, I still believe we need more creativity and I would like to see DD alongside a equally creative player with a DM behind them.

[crazyleicester]

Possession stats always do my head in because its about keeping the ball in the right areas and sometimes the stats dont tell the whole story.

 

You also need to have players who are very comfortable with the ball starting from the back and Im sorry to say that our back 4 (with the exception of Fuchs) is not the best with the ball.

 

For me we need to concentrate on two things. Firstly, set pieces. I havent got the stats for goals conceded but I we look quite shaky from corners etc but as an attacking unit, we have scored 3 which is 17th in the prem. That needs serious work especially when we have Wes and Huth (and Ndidi now) . Mahrez, Albrighton and Fuchs should also be able to deliver more. Yesterday Albrighton was delivering plenty but our lads were nowhere near. It was madness.

 

The second thing is energy, closing down and making the oppo make mistakes. We got by without possession last season as we let the oppo have the ball in there half and then as they approached the half way line you had Vards and Oka snapping at them as well as the rest.

[somebum]

prime exanple of possession meaning bugger allis Everton v Man city on right now

[Danizen]

One of the best things about our title win was that we pissed in the face of all the tiki-taka fan boys who believe there's only one right way to play football.

 

I'd love us to go back to playing, exciting counter attacking football. 

 

Results are more important, though. 

[foxes21]

We'd have to buy a whole new team. Trying to move to a possession based game with this current squad, would give us the same results Sousa got. It would be terrible.

 

I don't think possession is the problem. We are missing our pressing game. Last season we dictated the game, by how aggressive we pressed. It was impossible for teams to get through our middle because Mahrez/Drinkwater/Kante/Albrighton/Okazaki would be so narrow. And we'd always win second balls.

 

We haven't pressed as aggressive this year and I think it's down to a poor pre season, lack of rotation & lots of games played.

 

Possession isn't the problem, our intensity, pressing and fitness is. You can still win games with 35% possession, but you have to move the ball with a purpose like we did last season.

[foxaholic]

On 1/14/2017 at 22:13, rmahrez said:

We won the league with 41% possession and 10/11 of that starting 11 are still at the club. Why on earth anyone would think possession would be the answer to our current problems is beyond me.

 

Possession as a stat is flawed. It is all about what you do with the ball, never mind signing a whole new team only to pass it around the back for 90 minutes.

Everton murdered Man c with 29%

[NewEnglandFox]

It's not too late of a New Year's resolution...