For 2017/18 we need to evolve into a more possesion based side.

[Guest CityFan 06]

Koke's thread is very relevant right now. We, as a side are very uncomfortable in possession, whenever we're pressed we just seem to lose the ball more often than not. There's many a time this season where we've needed to keep the ball on the floor and get some movement and creativity going. We haven't done that and we are inexperienced at doing that because our counter attacking style of play worked so well last season. Creativity is what's really hindering us at the moment.

[foxy boxing]

I've been saying all season we need more possession and keep hold of the ball more because without the ball you have to work so much harder and without the ball you can't do anything with it. Simple

[Koke]

Half this team can't pass water. We're an absolute abomination of a side. 

 

The back four need addressing in the summer. And our playing style need vast improvement. We must be the worst side in the league in terms of keeping the ball and passing it.

[Guest CityFan 06]

This summer I'd definitely look at signing players who are comfortable in possession (Wilshere type players). Games like today when we face a side such as Crystal Palace, there's times in the match when you need to keep possession. We struggle to do that, and invite pressure on. 

 

Now, generally defensively we're quite resolute defending pressure or when in the lead, but we could make it easier for ourselves to take the strain of the defence. 

[Chico1958]

Marco Silva it is then or is it Pulis

 

Or shall we start a thread to bring Claudio back..........

 

Just joking people .................

[Vardinio'sCat]

Good thread because I understand the sentiment, it is painful to watch at times.

 

But part of me thinks... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. We are the Atletico of the PL,and we should double-down, buying high workrate players who are mobile enough to press the seven bells out of rivals. This is the style that has taken us to giddy heights, so it would be strange if we changed direction when we are on fire.

 

Having said all that, watching Benny actually trying to play out, when possible, has been very rewarding. I think he has brought greater calmness on the ball to Huth, because Huth knows he can always give the ball to Benny, without Benny having a nervous breakdown.

 

[lcfcben76]

There's obviously a time and a place for passing the ball sometimes but the atletico game for example we literally just lumped it forward time after time and it just came straight back at us, would love for us to just string a few passes out from the back from time to time and move up the field

[ajthefox]

We need to be more comfortable on the ball and we should always be looking for players with the capacity to keep it but the idea that we need to become a 'possession based side' is a nonsense. We won the league by breaking the mould and as others have said, why change a winning formula? We just need to be able to retain the ball better than we are currently doing when we're under serious pressure like yesterday at Palace, Wednesday at Atletico or a couple of weeks back against West Ham.

 

That does not mean becoming a 'possession based side' it just means not smashing the ball away all the time.

[Thracian]

On 14/01/2017 at 22:34, Koke said:

 

I kind of agree with you.

 

In your opinion what is Drinkwater best attributes? He's not a DM and he doesn't score any goals, and if his creativity is as non-existent as you say, what exactly is he good at?

 

I can't and wouldn't dream of trying to speak for DavieG's views. 

 

But, to me, Drinkwater has his strengths but I've always thought he could have improved some aspects of his game immensely.

 

He loves getting involved on the ball and being the focal man. To some extent he's excellent in this way and has improved too over the years by becoming physically more combative and not nearly so easy to muscle off the ball.

 

Although  not quick  he's naturally busy and demanding of people around him both verbally and by example. Anyone rubbishing the guy needs to look at his record of achievement here in a team that was, for a long time, assembled  with fairly modest means.

 

We've one promotion as champions of The Championship, we've won a Premiership title at odds of 5000-1 and we would seem set to complete our third season of survival at that level. Historically that's an incredible effort even before I mention our reaching the Champions League quarter-finals having already topped our qualification group.

 

For much of that time Drinky's been one of our better players - a seven-to-7.5 out of 10 footballer on many if not most occasions. We owe him big time, no question.

 

But he's not especially ceative and I'd doubt now that he'll ever make a marksman. Some players don't have the technique but I don't think that's the case with Drinkwater. I think his marksmanship's let down by his instincts when shooting and his passing by his lack of speed off the mark and the knowledge that quick one-two's will always be hard work and likely 50-50 adventures.

 

Coupled with not being that accurate a long passer it all means his distribution is fairly average and unthreatening. In his shoes I'd work on every aspect of the shooting because I see no technical reason he couldn't improve that area and thus become more dangerous and valuable as a midfielder. He already has sound basic technique. It's all about finding more opportunity to shoot and then have the mental thought processes to be more precise and more ruthless, starting with the basic requirement of seeing more shots hit the target.

 

Drinkwater wastes most of his chances by shooting high or wide and that's all in the mind and is a fault that can be eliminated with time, effort and the right application. And if Drinkwater could lift his goals return to 10 a season it would have the bonus of extending his own useful career and quite posibly buying a bit more time and space for his colleagues. 

 

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[Thracian]

How we might best succeed as a team depends on the make-up of our squad and the managerial philosophy as a consequence. You can't just save a magic wand and turn a team of competitors into a team of passers or a team of plodders into a team of athletes.

 

Could we possibly have won the title as a "passing" side. Not a chance because we could never have afforded the passing players necessary and we don't seem capable of developing our own beyond a certain level - for various reasons.

 

Ranieri's already tried to change us quite dramatically and ended up getting sacked because of the level of his failure. That suggests that any change needs to evolve slowly but, lately, I've wondered why we should change other than by way of offering ourselves a worthwhile option.

 

I say that because a) we've already won the title once and at the expense of far better "passing" sides. b) because we still won't be able to buy the best passers necessary and c) because it's not necessarily the best way to set us apart in any case.

 

What's been successful for us is pressing high, countering rapidly and defending in a committed, organised, resolute manner.

 

I'd first be inclined to strengthen those qualities by adding more pace, more potential goals, more strength and yes, greater accuracy in terms of ball retension but not at the expense of the vitals I've mentioned.

 

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[KingsX]

This thread nicely summarizes the case for comfortable and purposeful ball retention, vice “aesthetic” ticky tack completions, so the through ball can be played when space opens up, not just hoof-to-unload.  Much-needed evolution, not wholesale change.

 

The initial job for CS was to stay up, and get what he could in the CL.  That required a total focus on the existing strengths of the team.  To keep the reins (as I hope he does), he needs to have a vision to broaden those strengths, and recruit/coach to get there.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

To do this would involve a £100m plus investment as it would not utilise the 'primary players' we already have.

 

It would not guarantee any better performances in terms of the league table than we have now and that's with 5 months of the season a total w/off this time around.  Southampton are a very decent, neat and tidy 'footballing team' yet we are only 3pts behind them as things stand. 

 

There's no way we would have won the league playing everyone else at their own game, and slowing things down trying to pass the ball around to create goal scoring opportunities as, from what I can see, it's very difficult to do when you are not able to buy the best players capable of doing that.

 

Im not against getting better players, but I am keen on retaining this style of play and an identity which has brought us unimaginable success.

[lgfualol]

Just buy players that fit our current system but can actually kick a ball, hold on to the ball or beat a man without having a panic attack. 

 

Passing practice this Summer I think. Would be nice.

[An Away Move]

I think this thread hits the nail on the head about why Ranieri eventually fell. I think he wanted us to evolve into a more versatile team that retains the ball more. Trouble is it totally went against the grain of what made us become winning machines. In the last ten games of the great escape we were desperate and had nothing to lose by playing all out. We discovered an intensity of play that was very effective, which we simply carried on with to astonishing effect with the title win last season. We only started winning and being effective again by going back to that. Changing our style is going to mean a lot more losses. No manager has that time and luxury. 

[Ashley]

We play a brand of football which no one as of yet as been able to find out(find us out). We've got some brilliant technical players in our team too who can actually play, but why go to a possession based team when we can do what we do best? 

 

 

[TheSomersetFox]

7 minutes ago, SydenhamFox said:

I think this thread hits the nail on the head about why Ranieri eventually fell. I think he wanted us to evolve into a more versatile team that retains the ball more. Trouble is it totally went against the grain of what made us become winning machines. In the last ten games of the great escape we were desperate and had nothing to lose by playing all out. We discovered an intensity of play that was very effective, which we simply carried on with to astonishing effect with the title win last season. We only started winning and being effective again by going back to that. Changing our style is going to mean a lot more losses. No manager has that time and luxury. 

 

Odd then how we didn't look like we could string 3 passes together under him for 90% of this season. Agree with your point about losing the intensity in our play though - I think that came from Ranieri. Just had us sitting in our half all game

[Livid]

I like Ndidi but Drinkwater seems to have been out of form for months. King and Amartey are bit players and Mendy when fit doesn't seem to be the answer. 

 

If we can get one quality experienced central midfielder in this summer I think we could see a big difference. We need to stop looking for the next big thing though and look a bit higher up the pecking order.

[AmarteyAndChill]

36 minutes ago, Livid said:

I like Ndidi but Drinkwater seems to have been out of form for months. King and Amartey are bit players and Mendy when fit doesn't seem to be the answer. 

 

If we can get one quality experienced central midfielder in this summer I think we could see a big difference. We need to stop looking for the next big thing though and look a bit higher up the pecking order.

Adrien silva

[Foxxed]

Teams can score against us when they waltz through the centre of the park. If they're one on one with Huth and Morgan there's a greater than normal chance teams will score against us. This is why we keep a narrow formation to push them out wide. I'm not sure we need a more possession orientated formation but we need to lessen this weakness. There are times when we are in possession when we look frankly uncomfortable. We need to fix this. But a fast counter attacking team I want us to remain.

[TrentFox]

We won the league last year. That's genuinely amazing, isn't it? Even more so with all of these shortcomings. 

[fuchsntf]

Too many posters on here making  exactly the same mistake as Ranieri.

trying, wanting to make us into something that contradicts the ethos that made us Champions.

Yes it needs new younger blood, tweeking here or there, but lets get away from this silly suggestion

that its all out possesion or lack of it, is our problem.

Teams havent  stayed deeper this season, thats a total fallacy, they have had players, cover Mahrez's

target spaces covered his runs with 2-3 players preempting his get out balls.

 

The fact that Vardy has started scoring again proves the opposition  cant cover, or defend any better than last season.

It was our or better said Ranieris tactic of keeping us on the backfoot, instead of carrying on trusting in what we had.

Then not investing in cover for DDrinkwater and replacing kante with a quality midfielder ( not the same has).

James should have been loaned out for a shorter stint.Benny and Kapu should of been shown earlier more confidence

and patience. Its no coincidence that we refound out game and ethos and unique style as soon ascee went positive

and on the front foot.Somebody like Ndidi should of been around since the summer.

Our playing failure besides the above, was not seeing DDrinkwater couldnt be our soul dependant in midfield.

Even now its his avg form that has prevented us in getting decent higher passes to the front line.

Mahrez is starting too deep, which still needs to be addressed.We are too hung up about his defensive duties.

 

POSSSESION....f*^k it. !!!

Its what you do with the Ball, and how quick you use and move it.. We were smart last season,

we just forgot the reason why...nothing more.

Yes we need new players with better ball retention potential, but not with notion of changing our ethos.

Like Athletico, slow and smooth steps.Its not doing them any harm and the oppo still hasnt fathomed them out.

We should do it at our tempo, and not give into ungratefull stats.

We have not been found out, we conned ourselves for 6 months, our goal and even defensive record of late prove it.

Everton and CP, played us while they had found new form , with us also having other priorities, and protecting some

players. The worse thing we had 2 occasions and money to invest, and we didnt,

but we have seen Ndidi, Gray, and Benny come through the dark mists.Not forgetting giving the frontline service

gets us goals....

Again possesion is a poor fans argument especially after being a city fan through our dream period...

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, SydenhamFox said:

I think this thread hits the nail on the head about why Ranieri eventually fell. I think he wanted us to evolve into a more versatile team that retains the ball more. Trouble is it totally went against the grain of what made us become winning machines. In the last ten games of the great escape we were desperate and had nothing to lose by playing all out. We discovered an intensity of play that was very effective, which we simply carried on with to astonishing effect with the title win last season. We only started winning and being effective again by going back to that. Changing our style is going to mean a lot more losses. No manager has that time and luxury. 

I don't believe he did that at all, us having more possession was more down to the opposition sitting deep on us this season at the start, compared to last.

 

Not a chance we tried to pass it more either, I saw more aimless pumps up field early season than I have since his departure.

 

His downfall for me  was players struggling to find motivation and then him chasing an answer through making changes that served to make him look out of his depth and lose everyone's faith.... amongst a few other things.

 

I screamed last summer for a slight evolution of our style, and still think we need a teeak to help us control games.

 

Against Athletico and Palace we've been poor at controlling it. But I think that's been enhanced also by us being tired. For our current system to work at its best all the players need to be at 100%, as there is slot of effort involved in supporting a player receiving a long pass than a short one.

[shailen]

Didn't SAF build his United team with fast players up front and to play on the counter attack. I understand ultimately holding onto the ball for longer gives you more control over the game, but it's not a guaranteed way to win. What we are doing now, breaking on teams, defending deep is the only way we are going to get success imo. We need some serious investment before we can even think of playing that way imo.

[sylofox]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

I don't believe he did that at all, us having more possession was more down to the opposition sitting deep on us this season at the start, compared to last.

 

Not a chance we tried to pass it more either, I saw more aimless pumps up field early season than I have since his departure.

 

His downfall for me  was players struggling to find motivation and then him chasing an answer through making changes that served to make him look out of his depth and lose everyone's faith.... amongst a few other things.

 

I screamed last summer for a slight evolution of our style, and still think we need a teeak to help us control games.

 

Against Athletico and Palace we've been poor at controlling it. But I think that's been enhanced also by us being tired. For our current system to work at its best all the players need to be at 100%, as there is slot of effort involved in supporting a player receiving a long pass than a short one.

Now your comments I don't get. If teams were sitting deeper on us at the start of the season why have they stopped all of a sudden.

 

Everyone could beat us but since we sacked CR teams have reverted back to last season as we have. The only mystery in this is why CR tried to change what was not broke.

 

The sad thing is we could have challenged again this season. A top four place was possible. Something I believe we will do next season. What changed the most this season was us and it's cost us.

[davieG]

It's not a case of trying to emulate Arsenal or the likes but it would certainly help if we we improved significantly our passing ability, a lot of our lack of possession is down to giving the ball away for no apparent reason or attempt to attack the opposition.

 

So rather than talk about an increased possession game we should be looking to improve our pass completion which will increase our possession rates but more importantly improve our defensive and the number of attacks, attempts, shots on target and goals!