Should Ranieri Stay or go?

[foxfan92]

Have been hoping he turns things around and shuts all the moaners up on here ... but that drab performance against 10 man Millwall has convinced me we need a change. If possible not just the manager but the players we've got.

 

Can we clone Ndidi since he looks decent? Ten of him on the pitch plus Kasper and we might have a chance!

[inckley fox]

42 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Kante was gone pretty much the moment the season ended - aims for this season are unlikely to have been on his mind.

 

Stay for me - the problem is entirely a load of players who cannot be arsed now they've won a title, and the idea that subordinates acting like twats should see you carry the can rather than them being given the short sharp end seems fundamentally wrong to me. I'd be sacking a few players.

It's not hard to understand why any Leicester fan would find it hard to call for his head. However, when you say 'a load of players', it would seem to mean most of the first choice starting eleven, and pretty much all of a totally different second string, including (based on the last few games) the long-standing players, the youth team graduates and the guys Ranieri himself brought in. He said that the issue on Saturday was a lack of 'heart', well, that means pretty much everyone on the books lacks the desire to play for him. Surely we can't say that and still believe that it's right for him to stay on?

 

So, yes, there may be one or two arguments to keep Ranieri. There's the very emotional argument that he's earned our faith based on what he did last year, which doesn't help us in the short term but would seem to cover us on moral grounds, and there's the argument that for the next two games it's going to be very tough to get someone in and give them a fair chance of getting off to a good start, so we may as well stick with the manager on the grounds that he could get a positive result and bounce from there.

 

But I'm not sure that this 'the players are a bunch of traitors' argument stacks up, because (a) there's so many of them who aren't performing - in the starting and second eleven - that it's hard to avoid seeing the manager as the common denominator (b) just as he has earned our faith, so should many of the players have (c)a lack of belief / confidence and a lack of effort can be hard to separate from one another and (d) it's so easy to pinpoint moments in which Ranieri's decisions could easily have led to a loss of faith in his leadership.

 

For my part, I'm not going to strain myself in calling for Ranieri's head, nor fall out with anyone who stays loyal. But I think the real arguments for Ranieri staying on are either short term fixes, in the absence of any easy and immediate alternative, or emotional arguments by which we honour the fairy-tale, but quite possibly screw over the club in the process. I certainly don't think it helps to be picking sides, and if you're calling to sack players I think you're allowing ideals to get mixed up with practicalities.

[inckley fox]

On 19/02/2017 at 12:26, st albans fox said:

Anyone saying 'sack him' has to put forward a viable alternative

 

pearson is not viable

Those in a job they won't leave are not viable

 

i think shakey and stowell with their experience of two seasons ago are the only option.  IF the owners don't believe there is any breakdown between shakey and Claudio then they won't see any logic in sacking Claudio and putting shakey in charge. Seems to have got very political. If Claudio stays it probably means there is no rift. 

 

I never called for Pearson's head two years ago because no one could put forward a replacement who was a better option. Even after Dull at home when I resigned myself to relegation I didn't want the manager removed because I knew he would be able to bring us back again. 

 

I think i will hang on until after the two most important games of our season thus far - this Wednesday and hull at home. Anyone wanting to make their decision should have irrefutable evidence by then. 

 

Thus far the champions league campaign has defined the season. It may well continue to do so in a positive fashion, despite that seeming incredible. 

 

 

I understand what you're saying. Pearson is viable from our point of view (he has experience with these players, may well get a positive reaction from some key players, experience at keeping sides up in this league and in building beyond that) but maybe not from the board's. Really that's their problem rather than mine and I couldn't care less whether they like their manager or not, if the results are good. But throwing his name in the hat may be unrealistic.

 

So then we get the big names like Mancini, Bielsa etc. which seem totally unrealistic and not especially appropriate when you consider that we need a relegation dogfight specialist. Or there's the usual suspect sort of candidates like Pardew, which sounds awful. And then the up-and-comers like Rowett and Monk, both of which have a few question marks hanging over them. It may or may not work.

 

Like you, I think that - post-transfer window - every week that passes makes it less viable to give a manager the requisite bedding-in time. If we wait for just two more games (up to Liverpool) then it'll only give a dozen games for a boss to both evaluate his options, try them out and turn around our recent form, and do it without making any signings. That's a tall order, and any interested managers might look at what happened to people like Nigel Adkins in that situation in the past.

 

It means that if Ranieri is the main impediment to us performing, then removing him may be the solution, rather than replacing him. It may already be at the stage where we need a leader who can have an instant impact, and who doesn't need time to get to know the squad, so if Pearson isn't an option, it may simply have to be Shakespeare.

 

The one thing I hope we don't do (but suspect we will) is look for glimmers of hope - for instance, a narrow, hard-fought defeat in a one-off game where we pull ourselves together, or a dour draw against fellow strugglers - and use them to fool ourselves that something which isn't working, might just start working again. I'm not sure there's time for that. The improvement has to be clear and instant, or they should act.

[ZeGuy]

3 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

It also lost us Kante I feel. That would've surely swung him if he was contemplating staying.

I always saw Kante as the guy with a plan. While I was certain he wouldn't stay more than two seasons, I still was baffled to see him go that fast. It is one thing to say you're playing for 40 point when you barely escaped relegation the last season. It is another when you're the actual Champ. Kinda self defeating. We'll never know exactly why, but it is possibly something that could have weighted in Kante's decision making.

 

Difficult to resist to Conte though.

[Koke]

On 18/02/2017 at 20:21, ZeGuy said:

He won the premier league and the season after he plays for 40 points. Even if it was realistically impossible to match last season, he could have played for the top ten. Keep the players hungry, give them a real objective. Don't let them rest on their laurels and satisfied to return to obscurity. His lack of ambition killed the team's motivation.

 

This is why I think if we stay up with him we need a new manager in the summer. I can't take Ranieri saying in August that our aim is 40 points. Southampton and Stoke openly say they aim for top 10 finish or Europa League spots but Ranieri will bang on about 40 points.  I'm all for lowering expectations but he sets the bar so low it's embarrassing.

 

The comments about being underdogs against Millwall was embarrassing.

[TeamRocket]

Is he not gone yet

[fairbanksh]

The endless round of" which player to blame this week" is pointless

Something is totally rotten and most not all indicators go to Ranieri 

The manager sets the tone picks the team and tactics 

The players will not only be humiliated if relegated but lose money and credibility 

Ranieri hasn't a clue but a massive ego loving the publicity etc

How much longer will the club put up with what now is becoming one of the most painful embarrassing season of this crazy club

[Rusko187]

If we get annihilated tomorrow do we think that would be it for him? I'm still on the fence.

[tony222]

8 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

If we get annihilated tomorrow do we think that would be it for him? I'm still on the fence.

100% we won't lose tomorrow 

[Rusko187]

7 minutes ago, tony222 said:

100% we won't lose tomorrow 

Wish I shared your optimism

[roblcfc84]

Just now, Rusko187 said:

Wish I shared your optimism

I share his optimism - I can guarantee we won't lose tomorrow 

[Rusko187]

3 minutes ago, roblcfc84 said:

I share his optimism - I can guarantee we won't lose tomorrow 

Are you implying this will be down to sods law? Play crap in 2017, come to Sevilla and Tonk them 7-0?

[roblcfc84]

44 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

Are you implying this will be down to sods law? Play crap in 2017, come to Sevilla and Tonk them 7-0?

As amazing as that sounds We were both, I assume, being silly because we don't play tomorrow. 

[yorkie1999]

Keep him, but as a mouthpiece for the press.  What it needs is a proper leader/leaders on the pitch. Someone who'll give praise where it's due and give bollockings where they're due, and Morgan is just not that man , nor is drinkwater as i get the feeling he is a bit of a bully and looks to blame, something a leader should never do. It needs someone that once on the pitch just says "fvck claudio, we're on the pitch let's just play football.

[Guy]

8 hours ago, Raw Dykes said:

 

No, they don't. It's like you're shifting the burden of proof. We might as well not have a manager at all at the moment. That's how bad we are. We're getting the same results as we would if there was a mannequin on the touchline.

 

Anyone with some man-management or motivational skills would do a better job. Anyone with some ideas would do better. Just the change in itself would be a big breath of fresh air.

 

I can't remember if I was calling for Pearson to be sacked 2 years ago. I doubt it. I think, like you, I thought we were relegated, but that we already had the ideal manager to get us challenging for promotion again. Can you, or anyone, honestly say that they can see Ranieri being a good manager for us in the Championship? I can't. I can only see us sliding as long as he's here.

 

I think it's odd that people are still giving him another game or two to convince them. I think it's already too late. It's too much to ask a new manager to save us at this point. The club is in freefall, and there aren't many games left to turn a hoofball team with no confidence into a competitive PL team.

Back in December when the first poll was conduced over whether we should keep Ranieri or sack him at the time, I said give him until the end of the January transfer window and then see, although even back then I was thinking that was being a wee bit generous - but benefit of the doubt nevertheless. Since that poll then in the league I think we've only beaten West Ham narrowly at home (1-0) and were fortunate to do so - while we haven't mustered a single league goal ever since!! I know we've still got 13 games left to save ourselves but if the previous 13 are anything to go by (2 wins from 13!!), then we're obviously doomed. I honestly thought the Man City 4-2 win was the turning point but talk about false dawns!!

[The Doctor]

6 hours ago, inckley fox said:

It's not hard to understand why any Leicester fan would find it hard to call for his head. However, when you say 'a load of players', it would seem to mean most of the first choice starting eleven, and pretty much all of a totally different second string, including (based on the last few games) the long-standing players, the youth team graduates and the guys Ranieri himself brought in. He said that the issue on Saturday was a lack of 'heart', well, that means pretty much everyone on the books lacks the desire to play for him. Surely we can't say that and still believe that it's right for him to stay on?

 

I wouldn't say that many - I think some of them (Morgan and Huth) have just fallen off a cliff and are being woefully exposed by those in front of them, then the likes of Musa just haven't settled properly or (Kapustka) aren't quite ready for the sort of football in this division. There are a few who have seemingly downed tools and can't be arsed - Vardy and drinkwater on recent performances would seem to be the obvious front runners, and we're not good enough to carry players like that on the hope they maybe feel like it.

 

 

Quote

 

But I'm not sure that this 'the players are a bunch of traitors' argument stacks up, because (a) there's so many of them who aren't performing - in the starting and second eleven - that it's hard to avoid seeing the manager as the common denominator (b) just as he has earned our faith, so should many of the players have (c)a lack of belief / confidence and a lack of effort can be hard to separate from one another and (d) it's so easy to pinpoint moments in which Ranieri's decisions could easily have led to a loss of faith in his leadership.
 

 

 

just on c - that may be true, but a few things obviously stand out as a lack of effort rather than belief; Vardy not bothering to close down defenders three yards away for instance.

i can see d, but where i think that will be from a playing staff is the tinkering with formations, and given it seems the players don't want to play anything but 4-4-2 I find it rather hard to blame ranieri on that, the change in formation is necessary (we're being consistently overrun with two centre mids) and if they are refusing to let him do his job and fix us then it's obvious where the problem lies.

 

 

Quote

 

 

For my part, I'm not going to strain myself in calling for Ranieri's head, nor fall out with anyone who stays loyal. But I think the real arguments for Ranieri staying on are either short term fixes, in the absence of any easy and immediate alternative, or emotional arguments by which we honour the fairy-tale, but quite possibly screw over the club in the process. I certainly don't think it helps to be picking sides, and if you're calling to sack players I think you're allowing ideals to get mixed up with practicalities.
 

 

 

 

not going to argue that my position isn't practical, but as I said, I feel very uneasy at players having that much power over their manager. Ultimately I think it may have to be a change in manager, hope that the players will do their jobs for a couple of months, then have a fire sale and rebuild in the summer.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

5 hours ago, fairbanksh said:

The endless round of" which player to blame this week" is pointless

Something is totally rotten and most not all indicators go to Ranieri 

The manager sets the tone picks the team and tactics 

The players will not only be humiliated if relegated but lose money and credibility 

Ranieri hasn't a clue but a massive ego loving the publicity etc

How much longer will the club put up with what now is becoming one of the most painful embarrassing season of this crazy club

 

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

KEEP HIM! He will keep us up.

[justfoxes]

What about keep Claudio as a director of football and get Roberto Mancini in ??

[Ian S]

2 hours ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

KEEP HIM! He will keep us up.

Yeh right.In Seville at the moment and not spoken to a single city fan who thinks he can keep us up but many who don't want him sacked. The conversation is about how he can go in the most painless way ,not whether he should stay.

Dead man walking.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, tony222 said:

100% we won't lose by more than 15 goals tomorrow 

On Wednesday at least

[inckley fox]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

I wouldn't say that many - I think some of them (Morgan and Huth) have just fallen off a cliff and are being woefully exposed by those in front of them, then the likes of Musa just haven't settled properly or (Kapustka) aren't quite ready for the sort of football in this division. There are a few who have seemingly downed tools and can't be arsed - Vardy and drinkwater on recent performances would seem to be the obvious front runners, and we're not good enough to carry players like that on the hope they maybe feel like it.

 

just on c - that may be true, but a few things obviously stand out as a lack of effort rather than belief; Vardy not bothering to close down defenders three yards away for instance.

i can see d, but where i think that will be from a playing staff is the tinkering with formations, and given it seems the players don't want to play anything but 4-4-2 I find it rather hard to blame ranieri on that, the change in formation is necessary (we're being consistently overrun with two centre mids) and if they are refusing to let him do his job and fix us then it's obvious where the problem lies

 

not going to argue that my position isn't practical, but as I said, I feel very uneasy at players having that much power over their manager. Ultimately I think it may have to be a change in manager, hope that the players will do their jobs for a couple of months, then have a fire sale and rebuild in the summer.

I get where you're coming from. If you're focusing on a specific group of players (e.g. Vardy, Drinkwater, Ulloa, Mahrez, whoever) then that makes far more sense to me, though I'm not sure whether the players who are protesting are necessarily the ones who have let us down, and if we are speaking about a specific group then couldn't Ranieri have done more to sideline them?

 

Just on a separate, loosely relevant note, a colleague of mine knows a player in the side (I know, those are the sorts of words which normally make me stop reading posts too). I'm aware that I can't substantiate any of this, and can do no more than vouch for it personally, but today I was told something interesting, and against the grain of what I'd thought.

 

The player in question said that Ranieri's strength is in his speaking. The pep talks are incredible, full of anecdotes about Italy and his childhood. He's exceptionally clever, a great story-teller, and has a ridiculous memory, with real attention to detail. He says the lack of English doesn't get in the way at all, and he's a motivator - the best he's ever known (and this guy has been around the block). However, and this is what really surprised me because it doesn't fit in at all with what I've heard Mahrez and Vardy say publicly, the guy also said he's terrible tactically, as hopeless as anyone in the game, and most of that guidance has always come from the coaching staff.

 

Clearly not everyone would agree with him, perhaps even within the dressing room, but it may be a reflection on the sorts of discussions going on behind the scenes. To me it sounds like a description which would better fit Pearson than Ranieri, but that's not the case.

 

Anyway, I never get any sort of interesting information. Ever. Hardly fireworks, I know, but I thought it comment-worthy.

[Daggers]

This club now resembles the deft management skill of Jeremy Corbyn combined with the playing ability of a full-bladdered UKIP canvasser.

 

Claudio has to go after tomorrow night, before his head is called for at home games. He doesn't deserve that, he needs to leave while most of us still love him for what he did.

 

 

[Arcs past]

8 hours ago, Daggers said:

This club now resembles the deft management skill of Jeremy Corbyn combined with the playing ability of a full-bladdered UKIP canvasser.

 

Claudio has to go after tomorrow night, before his head is called for at home games. He doesn't deserve that, he needs to leave while most of us still love him for what he did.

 

 

Don't worry mate, he will leave when he knows the time is right. Italians aren't exactly known for going down with the ship, if you know what I mean. 

 

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

Yes he should go. But the damage has been done. I think there is unfortunately very little hope we stay up now. I pray once it is announced that we are down, Claudio does the honourable thing and leaves. This is what scares me more now. 

 

The club should spend the next few months identifying a candidate to take us forward. Not just one suited to the championship but someone whose style and ideas we want to buy into. That way, before preseason, that new candidate is in place for the championship campaign. 

 

All this does depend on Claudio doing the right thing come May.