Gegenpressing

[Countryfox]

2 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

 

 

Yes down with the over-clever people and up with leaving the EU and keeping the immigrants off our server.

 

Let's make Foxestalk great again.

 

 

You and Jonesy leave by the back gate please Matchstick and walk over to the Politics Thread  ...

[halibut]

I don't think there's another team in the top leagues today where the two FWs press as quickly and hard as Leicester, and that's what makes us unique (and made us mediocre without its presence).

I don't think Leicester is gegenpressing in Klopp/Dortmund terms. Compared to Dortmund's glory years, the most obvious difference is that Leicester chooses to drop deep and sit back on numerous occasions. At Leicester, not all MFs frantically chase the ball -- it's usually the two FWs, plus one player on the flank, that are responsible for driving the opponent to the sides and suffocating the opponent. When successful, a maximum of three players do sprints to win 10+ seconds of time for the teammates to reposition themsselves, and leave the opponent with few choices of where the ball could go onwards.

All this starts with Vardy; I think his defensive contributions were underrated last season, attention directed towards his goals. I don't recall Lewandowski chasing as hard as Vardy, and the same applies to whomever-else@Dortmund v. Okazaki. At Dortmund, it was mostly the MFs trying not to retreat by maintaining persistent pressure. Very different styles...

Details of Leicester's transition between its defensive and attacking modes have been covered in great depth in various sites btw, links provided by other members on Foxestalk.

[Danizen]

9 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Is that you Andy Johnson Richie Wellens?

 

[fuchsntf]

I have not read through all replies...

counterpressing..thats all it is...English teams used to be renouned for it, few do it today.

Klopps teams, German International team, became experts. English teams with foreign managers,

slowly lost the coninuity. Liverpool it was in their blood.

When Okazaki played for Mainz, hardly known that he had it in him, but isnt that been his game in a Leicester shirt.

 

I live in Germany, its become my most used language, but why turn to a foreign language when better explained,

in ones own.  

Schadenfreude..je ne sai quoi, ...deja vu, ...manana,.. mano a mano..aficiando..etc etc, we turn slightly because

it explains that bit extra???   Advant guarde???  Holiday feelings ???  

Who knows, but in sport terms our vocabulary is  solid and explanatory, and sells its self,

that the German, French and Spanish, are happy to drop good ol English terms into their own commentaries....

Good game!!  Good game!!  

[worthosoriginals]

15 hours ago, mahrez555 said:

Not sure if this has been talked about before but, do you think Leicester use a form of gegenpressing?

Haven't seen it mentioned in any media outlets but, watching the two games under Shakespeare it seems like we do 

Nahhhh, your getting football  mixed up with a dry cleaning process.

Maybe it's the way they clean the kit?

 

[foxinsocks]

Corby do trouserpressing.....

[brockmyster]

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

The word gegen is from Germany. It kind of suggests they do pressing there . Atletico Madrid have had a lot of success with pressing too.

I more meant that in the prem it has been on the rise past few years and many teams have struggled with it which in my opinion is due to a lack of class on the ball. Even the "top 6" have struggled at times with it. Germany it is used often but teams are more comfortable with passing in my opinion, as for atletico the class going forward also helps there but again in la liga they are all much more confident and capable on the ball then the average prem teams.

 

This isn't a knock at it because I'm not saying possession is everything we proved it last year, but the general effectiveness of this is the prem at present is down to the weak standard of players on the ball.

[Leeds Fox]

3 hours ago, Kitchandro said:

That's not true if we're doing it properly, the way we were this season. It wasn't just Kante winning the ball back on his own all the while, we funnelled them into him with 2 or 3 other players.

I don't for a second think it was just Kante, I just don't think we always played the way 'Gegenpress' is described. I thought we pressed the player in possession, with two men, then pressed the next player to get possession. In turn rather than at the same time. It was quick, but it seemed we allowed the pass if a challenge wasn't made and then tried to win it from their touch rather than completely cut off the pass.

 

Not for a second saying you're wrong, and maybe it was just that it isn't as effective in the Prem with our players, as it was in the Bundesliga with Bayern, or La Liga with Barca. That style of play is much more suited to a high possession based team, something that we weren't. 

[norwichfox]

3 hours ago, Countryfox said:

Gegenpressing ....   very modern.    When I was a lad ...    (yawnnn !!!) ...     we used to play a system called  "Punktball',  which is German for "Point ball" ...      when us heavy smoking, beer swilling chumps lost the ball we would stand still and point at it and say  "Yours !!"  to a team mate.  It was then up to him to try and get the ball back.    We were probably ahead of our time ...

Yes. It's a method that was adopted by City earlier this season, but when our pointer in chief forgot which leg he should lead with and got injured we had to revert to a winning system under Shakey...

[SpacedX]

2 hours ago, foxinsocks said:

Corby do trouserpressing.....

Fulham do flower pressing. 

[The_77]

Sure, we press and counter but the tactics aren't necessarily "gegenpressing."

At our most successful and exciting moments, these are the three things that are happening:

• A disciplined high backline and wingers who pinch inside compress the pitch and force opponents to fight through multiple lines of pressure
• Interceptions are into an attack as quickly as possible, utilizing long/diagonal balls or runs up the wing, allowing our forwards to exploit space in the opponent's third
• Interceptions are quickly turned into attempts, increasing the chances are of scoring

This was one of the best tactical breakdowns from last season:

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/12/15/leicester-city-premier-league-ranieri-vardy-mahrez-tactics-epl

[Vardinio'sCat]

20 hours ago, BoyJones said:

Is this a wind up question? We are playing english style, not too much nicety, in your face and get the job done. Hopefully, when we are out of the EU, no more of these stupid topics from over clever contributors. 

 

[brookfox]

21 hours ago, Wookie said:

The english translation is counterpressing.

Is that the same as when you're ironing a shirt and out of nowhere you iron a massive crease into it?!

[Struwwelpeter60]

“We are very good at doing the simple things,” Danny Drinkwater said. “There is no reason to complicate it. He is simplifying what he can, which is helping a lot. We will support any manager who comes in but every player probably knows Shakes more than anyone else. If he does get it then it would be a good fit. We have known him a few years and a few of us have known him a long time. If he does we will support him all the way.”

 

In plain English: the English Champions love it simple, very simple.

Everything beyond basic 442 and counter-attacking is too complicated

for our heroes. Therefore Ranieri, who dared to demand some tactical

flexibility from players, who are earning up to 100k/week , had to go.

And therefore we won't see real Gegenpressing from our team, because

it is, if executed properly, a very complicated system. A system that can

backfire easily, if not all players are constantly on their toes.

I wonder, what potential contenders for the manager job at LCFC will

think, when they read DDs comment? 

[Vardinio'sCat]

11 minutes ago, Struwwelpeter60 said:

“We are very good at doing the simple things,” Danny Drinkwater said. “There is no reason to complicate it. He is simplifying what he can, which is helping a lot. We will support any manager who comes in but every player probably knows Shakes more than anyone else. If he does get it then it would be a good fit. We have known him a few years and a few of us have known him a long time. If he does we will support him all the way.”

 

In plain English: the English Champions love it simple, very simple.

Everything beyond basic 442 and counter-attacking is too complicated

for our heroes. Therefore Ranieri, who dared to demand some tactical

flexibility from players, who are earning up to 100k/week , had to go.

And therefore we won't see real Gegenpressing from our team, because

it is, if executed properly, a very complicated system. A system that can

backfire easily, if not all players are constantly on their toes.

I wonder, what potential contenders for the manager job at LCFC will

think, when they read DDs comment? 

 

Maybe yer Chelsea's and Man U's can be brilliant playing different styles, but we are Leicester City.

 

The fact that we can only play very well in a relatively narrow range isn't that surprising, it is a bit of a miracle that we can play that well at all.  

[Struwwelpeter60]

10 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

Maybe yer Chelsea's and Man U's can be brilliant playing different styles, but we are Leicester City.

 

The fact that we can only play very well in a relatively narrow range isn't that surprising, it is a bit of a miracle that we can play that well at all.  

Do you think, our players are too ignorant to play something else? 

[Vardinio'sCat]

1 hour ago, Struwwelpeter60 said:

Do you think, our players are too ignorant to play something else? 

 

Not ignorant so much as not suited to certain styles with the current personnel (imho), particularly at the back. Hopefully things will improve in the future.

 

I remember thinking it was odd when a clearly frustrated CR said we could only play 442, or only wanted to play 442 (was it around the NY?). I know he didn't want to play it, but 532/352 worked for Nige in the great escape, with pretty much the same players.

 

Your point about what would prospective managers think of the whole sorry mess of this season is a really good one. It wasn't the greatest advert for the club, in fact the sacking of Ranieri was the worst bit of PR in LCFC history, as far as I know.

[Vardinio'sCat]

 

Having said that, did Wes show some skills we didn't know he had, in the Hull game? 

[ozleicester]

13 hours ago, Richard said:

Jaminjipressing

i prefer Jumanji pressing

 

 

[erlee]

Look at the HIGH pressing West Ham did against Chelsea..  bollox

 

loook where the central defenders are  absolute shambolic defending re first goal

 

Leicester will be undone if they keep pushing morgan & Huth up

[Dan]

5 hours ago, Struwwelpeter60 said:

“We are very good at doing the simple things,” Danny Drinkwater said. “There is no reason to complicate it. He is simplifying what he can, which is helping a lot. We will support any manager who comes in but every player probably knows Shakes more than anyone else. If he does get it then it would be a good fit. We have known him a few years and a few of us have known him a long time. If he does we will support him all the way.”

 

In plain English: the English Champions love it simple, very simple.

Everything beyond basic 442 and counter-attacking is too complicated

for our heroes. Therefore Ranieri, who dared to demand some tactical

flexibility from players, who are earning up to 100k/week , had to go.

And therefore we won't see real Gegenpressing from our team, because

it is, if executed properly, a very complicated system. A system that can

backfire easily, if not all players are constantly on their toes.

I wonder, what potential contenders for the manager job at LCFC will

think, when they read DDs comment? 

Tactical flexibility, aka a diamond with full backs that don't attack?

 

Ranieri's tactics this season were often horrendous. The Chelsea home and Southampton away games in-particular stand out as completely flawed set ups where no-one could answer me where they saw a realistic chance being created.

[filbertway]

10 hours ago, Struwwelpeter60 said:

“We are very good at doing the simple things,” Danny Drinkwater said. “There is no reason to complicate it. He is simplifying what he can, which is helping a lot. We will support any manager who comes in but every player probably knows Shakes more than anyone else. If he does get it then it would be a good fit. We have known him a few years and a few of us have known him a long time. If he does we will support him all the way.”

 

In plain English: the English Champions love it simple, very simple.

Everything beyond basic 442 and counter-attacking is too complicated

for our heroes. Therefore Ranieri, who dared to demand some tactical

flexibility from players, who are earning up to 100k/week , had to go.

And therefore we won't see real Gegenpressing from our team, because

it is, if executed properly, a very complicated system. A system that can

backfire easily, if not all players are constantly on their toes.

I wonder, what potential contenders for the manager job at LCFC will

think, when they read DDs comment? 

Christ, you must be the only Leicester fan that's more bitter and upset since Ranieri left.

[FraserSorensen]

13 hours ago, The_77 said:

This was one of the best tactical breakdowns from last season:

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/12/15/leicester-city-premier-league-ranieri-vardy-mahrez-tactics-epl

I love reading articles from shortly before the title win! This was my favourite part:

 

'A Europa League finish, maybe even a Champions League place, doesn’t seem out of the question thanks to the quick start, but it will be very difficult to maintain the current pace of earning more than two points per match in the standings'.

[Beliall]

This little factoid just popped up on my Facebook. Quite apt I think

 

Word of the day: VERSCHLIMMBESSERN (German) - to make something worse while trying to improve it

[Struwwelpeter60]

16 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Tactical flexibility, aka a diamond with full backs that don't attack?

 

Ranieri's tactics this season were often horrendous. The Chelsea home and Southampton away games in-particular stand out as completely flawed set ups where no-one could answer me where they saw a realistic chance being created.

Yes, Ranieri made  mistakes. And he was the first to admit them

(a huge difference to our players and other people at the club).

You are mentioning the Chelsea home and Southampton away games.

Right, after the fact, we, CR and everybody knew, that it didn't work.

But could we have known it before the games started?

Was it completely bonkers to try something new against Chelsea, after

442 didn't work at all at Stamford Bridge? Is it solely the fault of the

manager, if a new tactic/formation doesn't work? What about the

responsibility of the players, whose  (very well paid) job it is to

execute the instructions of the manager?

What would happen, if you told your superior at work to keep it

simple, because otherwise you would be out of your depth?

I guess, you would be out of a job, not your superior.

Right?