lgfualol Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Yes, but less so than under leave. True. Giving full control to the tories is scary, amongst other things. But hey if we leave the fishermen can catch more fish and the elderly will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Agreed. We can be justly critical of the shocking manipulation and misrepresentation by both campaigns. However, in the internet era, there's no excuse for any voter not being able to look into the issues and make their own mind up (apart from pensioners who've never used computers, maybe). I'm just anticipating scenarios where the result is close and the losers accuse the winners of winning by telling lies. Or scenarios where England narrowly votes Leave, but the overall vote is Remain because of Scotland, or there's a narrow Leave vote overall because of England despite a large Remain vote in Scotland. There are enough divisions in this country without schisms being opened even wider. Should be fascinating, though - and politics will be interesting for a long time after tonight, whatever the result. I plan to stay up for as long as I'm not dozing off. I might go bed soon and get up early, I've a long drive tomorrow and I'm not sure what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Don't worry, even if we vote Remain, we'll reform the Commission. We'll make it so we actually VOTE for it: No longer chosen by heads of state, we'll give it direct electoral legitimacy. And with direct--not indirect--electoral legitimacy, it'll be able to propose laws that aren't in the treaties signed by the heads of government. We'll lock the heads of state out altogether! European super-state here's we come! Really, the "The EU isn't democratic because the heads of state--not us--choose the Commission" is one of the strangest arguments I've heard this campaign. (Also, have I mentioned the European Parliament and the delegates in the European Council can and as dissolved the Commission? Good.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 EU Funding meant this was able to happen I might go bed soon and get up early, I've a long drive tomorrow and I'm not sure what to do. Radio will keep you going all day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Really, the "The EU isn't democratic because the heads of state--not us--choose the Commission" is one of the strangest arguments I've heard this campaign. Yeah, that's the main issue in any general election "but which anonymous crony will each party propose when a vacancy appears?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theessexfox Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Don't worry, even if we vote Remain, we'll reform the Commission. We'll make it so we actually VOTE for it: No longer chosen by heads of state, we'll give it direct electoral legitimacy. And with direct--not indirect--electoral legitimacy, it'll be able to propose laws that aren't in the treaties signed by the heads of government. We'll lock the heads of state out altogether! European super-state here's we come! Really, the "The EU isn't democratic because the heads of state--not us--choose the Commission" is one of the strangest arguments I've heard this campaign. (Also, have I mentioned the European Parliament and the delegates in the European Council can and as dissolved the Commission? Good.) Where is this appetite for reforming the Commission, where are the proposals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 I might go bed soon and get up early, I've a long drive tomorrow and I'm not sure what to do. That's what my missus plans to do. She's had to go to her mother's for the night and plans to get to bed early and then set a 5am alarm. I'm too much of a politics addict. I'll have to wade straight in. Got to get daughter up for school at 7am, though, so will be a tricky calculation so as not to feck that up: in bed by 3am for 4hrs sleep or try to see out the night, then post-breakfast kip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 True. Giving full control to the tories is scary, amongst other things. But hey if we leave the fishermen can catch more fish and the elderly will be happy. Oh no not the Tories with they're majority of 16, hugely polar wings, opposed upper chamber, u-turns galore and the cloud of election fraud in 28 constituencies hanging over their heads. Not to mention we can be rid of them in four years if the PLP gets its act together. Honestly it's such a weak argument its untrue. The EU isn't the socialist barrier to rampant conservatism you obviously think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Where is this appetite for reforming the Commission, where are the proposals? Just a general statement that it's not democratic. Not heard any proposed except, "fook it, leave". Yeah, that's the main issue in any general election "but which anonymous crony will each party propose when a vacancy appears?" Sorry, can you explain that a bit more? I've had a long day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theessexfox Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Just a general statement that it's not democratic. Not heard any proposed except, "fook it, leave". Sorry, can you explain that a bit more? I've had a long day. "We'll reform the Commission" just seems a bit of a bold statement given that was nowhere on the agenda on Cameron's renegotiation and as desirable as it sounds - I'm pro-Remain and would like to see it reformed in this way - I think it's pretty unlikely as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Guaranteeing we'll reform the commission after a remain vote is fanciful to say the least given it wasn't even something we could talkaabout when threatening to leave. Us on the leave side certainly won't be going away to hold the remainers to account on this point in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 "We'll reform the Commission" just seems a bit of a bold statement given that was nowhere on the agenda on Cameron's renegotiation and as desirable as it sounds - I'm pro-Remain and would like to see it reformed in this way - I think it's pretty unlikely as it stands. Since it's constrained by the treaty negotiations on one end, and the elected MEPs on the other, I don't really care to change it fundamentally. It just annoys me this is signaled out about what's shit about the EU. There's plenty that's shit about the EU--from the CAP, to the flawed emissions trading bullshit to plenty of other things--but instead it's the "undemocratic" nature of the "barmy Brussels bureaucrats". But then if you focus on policy change, rather than "just bin it all", then Brexit would no longer be Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Just back from the long 50 second walk to my local polling station here in our sleepy Buckinghamshire village. Bless the two old dears who've been sat on their arses for 15 hours making small talk and checking addresses all day - they must be knackered but were still smiling I asked what the turnout had been like and they said nearly 500 of the 750 eligible village voters had showed up. Which by my maths is about two-thirds, which sounds quite high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 I've no idea what's Cameron has even promised or proposed. Since he's up against a rather unfocused group of people shouting about The Commission and Immigration (including non EU immigration apparently), all of which no ideas have been put forward, I just saw his venture to get some things back as a joke. "We want to leave the EU!", "Alright, I'll go to the EU and ask for some stuff. What do you want?", "Nothing!!!" I just rather we engage in EU politics, rather than help pay for UKIP to live on 40k a year to stay at home, while complaining about the EU gravy train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 23 June 2016 Author Share Posted 23 June 2016 Given the vast difficulty of proposing legislation that fits in across 28 member states, I don't think you'll see an elected comission. Have an elected body would actually discount to many representative people from standing for election in my mind. And it's key to note, the comission may draw up the legislation, but its the heads of state that determin the direction of travel. One change that I think is likely is that Junker will go - probably at the end of his term, but possibly before - and possibly it would be Tusk to replace him. I certainly feel Tusk has an understanding for what a fragile position the EU is in and what is needed going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 I also like Tusk's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 I have this dream where we discuss policies and wonder how they can be improved on a basis of shared broad objectives instead of emotional attachments to ideologies. A wet dream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 It will be to no avail but proudly voted Leave tonight. Thankfully the EU is a doomed project whatever the result so even if it doesn't happen tonight, we will be independent within the decade IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 I might go bed soon and get up early, I've a long drive tomorrow and I'm not sure what to do. Mirror. Signal. Manoeuvre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Guaranteeing we'll reform the commission after a remain vote is fanciful to say the least given it wasn't even something we could talkaabout when threatening to leave. Us on the leave side certainly won't be going away to hold the remainers to account on this point in the future. We can't fecking reform the House of Lords properly how the FECK can we reform the Franco German private club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry - LCFC Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Ah, the long night of dramatic local results, over-analysed incidents and the cheery but polite chatter of David Dimbelby begins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 It will be to no avail but proudly voted Leave tonight. Thankfully the EU is a doomed project whatever the result so even if it doesn't happen tonight, we will be independent within the decade IMO. If the vote is Remain that will strengthen it beyond democratic fracture ! If we vote remain the Only way it will collapse after tonight is war And history shows that's not that improbable ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 I've just been told by an ITK that leave release clause has been met and is going for a medical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Ah, the long night of dramatic local results, over-analysed incidents and the cheery but polite chatter of David Dimbelby begins! Fcuk Babestation ! David's moobs are all that's got my attention tonight ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 23 June 2016 Share Posted 23 June 2016 Given the vast difficulty of proposing legislation that fits in across 28 member states, I don't think you'll see an elected comission. Have an elected body would actually discount to many representative people from standing for election in my mind. And it's key to note, the comission may draw up the legislation, but its the heads of state that determin the direction of travel. One change that I think is likely is that Junker will go - probably at the end of his term, but possibly before - and possibly it would be Tusk to replace him. I certainly feel Tusk has an understanding for what a fragile position the EU is in and what is needed going forward. Is this the same Tusk out of the film Tusk??? Fcuk Babestation ! David's moobs are all that's got my attention tonight ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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