Guest MattP Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 30 minutes ago, toddybad said: The idea that europe wants to see the loss of free trade is nonsensical. The EU don't want a hsrd brexit but have a set of red lines. It isn't us vs them. It's us vs us. If we are to believe the leak in BILD that's exactly what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 1 hour ago, MattP said: If we are to believe the leak in BILD that's exactly what they want. They are talking a hard line at the moment because they want us to pay a chunk of money over to help them fill the big hole they will have in their budget post Brexit. We will pay for pension etc I am sure, but nothing more, and if that means we are on WTO terms the day after brexit then fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: They are talking a hard line at the moment because they want us to pay a chunk of money over to help them fill the big hole they will have in their budget post Brexit. We will pay for pension etc I am sure, but nothing more, and if that means we are on WTO terms the day after brexit then fine. Whilst saying that WTO terms are fine is a legitimate position, I'd counter that they are absolutely not fine given the impact that will have on inflation, the stock market, pensions (due to the damage it will do to the stock market), business, jobs and the rest of the economy. People that are barely getting by now will not be fine with higher prices. Before anybody counters with 'buy British' - that's fine in principal but very difficult in practice given the destruction of this country's manufacturing and the risk of further industry moving into the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 On 01/05/2017 at 13:05, Charl91 said: "Meanness"?!? Come off it, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel here. If it was the Tories making decisions like this (or if the shoe was on the other foot), you'd say it was just good business sense. Complaining about the EU being "mean" makes you sound like one of those lefty-wet-special-snowflakey types that you openly mock. We've treated the EU with contempt for far too long, they owe us no favours. Of course they're going to look out for their best interests, in the same way that we're (apparently...ha!) trying to look out for ours. Awwww poor European Union. Yes we've treated them with contempt for far too long, what with our huge net contribution, trade surplus, defence and intelligence leadership and the fact we've allowed over 3,000,000 of their citizens (majority of them poor and low-skilled) to move to the UK absolutely no questions asked. Bless them. However if you're referring to the UK resisting the "United States of Europe" at every turn then you're god damned right we treated them with contempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 5 hours ago, MattP said: If we are to believe the leak in BILD that's exactly what they want. It's funny, it's almost as if they are desperate, absolutely desperate for Brexit to be a disaster to save their broken little club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 1 hour ago, BlueSi13 said: It's funny, it's almost as if they are desperate, absolutely desperate for Brexit to be a disaster to save their broken little club. It's funny that you think their prerogative is a hateful one rather than an effort to secure the best deal for their side of the breakup, you know, like you want to say we're doing for Britain. But then I suppose we're all guilty of projecting our own emotions onto others at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: They are talking a hard line at the moment because they want us to pay a chunk of money over to help them fill the big hole they will have in their budget post Brexit. We will pay for pension etc I am sure, but nothing more, and if that means we are on WTO terms the day after brexit then fine. The budget and spending we had already committed to? Amazing people seem to think that the UK should be fine to just welch on its commitments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 1 hour ago, The Doctor said: The budget and spending we had already committed to? Amazing people seem to think that the UK should be fine to just welch on its commitments. Well look at it the other way, if we no longer get the benefits, why would we still bear the costs? Would that be reasonable? Leaving the club means not paying the fees any longer. Sure there is a notice period, but that cannot be forever, and certainly not everything decided up to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 1 hour ago, The Doctor said: The budget and spending we had already committed to? Amazing people seem to think that the UK should be fine to just welch on its commitments. What if we were a beneficiary state of the EU and those commitments were in reverse. Would you expect them to keep paying their commitments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said: Well look at it the other way, if we no longer get the benefits, why would we still bear the costs? Would that be reasonable? Leaving the club means not paying the fees any longer. Sure there is a notice period, but that cannot be forever, and certainly not everything decided up to now. We committed to the current spending period. If we want to pull out, then like with all contracts there's an early exit fee. The notice period isn't forever, the notice period is 2 years as is well established, but the current cycle of funding, which we agreed to be a part of, runs beyond that. Don't want to be paying without getting the benefits? Time your departure to meet with the end of the funding cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 Just now, Strokes said: What if we were a beneficiary state of the EU and those commitments were in reverse. Would you expect them to keep paying their commitments? Yes. If you've committed to a contract then you should honour it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 5 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Yes. If you've committed to a contract then you should honour it. But like all contracts, if they are not watertight and there are get outs. We should explore them, as we no longer see benefits of them. I don't see how that's immoral. They must think that there is a get out or loop hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 EU now demanding 100 billion according to the FT. Maybe they can go the whole hog and ask us to sign the deal in Versailles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 2 minutes ago, MattP said: EU now demanding 100 billion according to the FT. Maybe they can go the whole hog and ask us to sign the deal in Versailles? Im going to miss our mafia friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 2 minutes ago, Strokes said: Im going to miss our mafia friends. Either they have totally misread us again or appointed Diane Abbott to work out the maths. They still don't understand Britain even after the vote, we aren't Greece, you can't bully us into accepting what you want. It really is bizarre that they think this sort of thing is the way to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 What's £100 billion between friends hey? Maybe we can post date a cheque until after brexit when the pound drops to worthless as you all seem to think it will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSi13 Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 3 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: It's funny that you think their prerogative is a hateful one rather than an effort to secure the best deal for their side of the breakup, you know, like you want to say we're doing for Britain. But then I suppose we're all guilty of projecting our own emotions onto others at times. Hateful? Nah But salty, wounded, threatened, bitter and vulnerable? Yes, absolutely. It's almost as if these "leaks" have been deliberately orchestrated to try and impact the upcoming General Election by attempting to wound the one British party likely to give them a tougher time in the upcoming negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 The really sad thing about all this is just how polarising it has made things. Doesn't seem to be much room for fence-sitters or much kind of nuance. Suppose it was always going to end that way, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 Yanis Varoufakis was very good on newsnight, basically told us to prepare for even more or this, Brussels will bully and bullshit in every way possible throughout the negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 What the British electorate, have got to do, for both the election and Brexit reporting is understand, that at present its pure speculation..In danger of the political media according to their sympathies, will try and turn into facts based on incompetent created untruths and downright lies. Just like both sides of the referrendum. Even now on forums like this one people are trying to argue over points, that are not yet a given...its silly !! Figures, contractual duties, negotiation approach, and processes, not only dont have content, the box, the pidgeon holes, the filing of relevant subject is so far from complete. The debate and discussions are not even been had to give the electorate, any hard information. At the moment any information is media speculation, nothing more...They even get their own media (experts) To have heated debates...At the moment there is no bread on the table, because nobody has yet gone shopping.. People are still arguing, what shops, might have, or not have available.Then trying to tell you how you should bake it!!! Plus they are trying to sell, that those naughty foreign shopkeeper are not honest like ours, so cant be trusted, that a lying disorganised toe rag of our own is still better, than their toe rags...So when it comes to the descision, it was always the baddies in blackhats fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajthefox Posted 2 May 2017 Share Posted 2 May 2017 4 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: It's funny that you think their prerogative is a hateful one rather than an effort to secure the best deal for their side of the breakup, you know, like you want to say we're doing for Britain. But then I suppose we're all guilty of projecting our own emotions onto others at times. 1 hour ago, BlueSi13 said: Hateful? Nah But salty, wounded, threatened, bitter and vulnerable? Yes, absolutely. It's almost as if these "leaks" have been deliberately orchestrated to try and impact the upcoming General Election by attempting to wound the one British party likely to give them a tougher time in the upcoming negotiations. I realise you're trying to point out the hypocrisy Carl but I don't agree and I think the first part of Si's response is pretty much spot on. I never wanted this but since the vote a significant part of me has actually warmed to the idea precisely because of the attitude the EU has projected publicly. They have a right to expect some concessions from us and we cannot ask for a deal whereby we retain all of the benefits without having to make the same contribution but I think much of their rhetoric has shown them up. The referendum was a democratic process and the EU's attitude towards it has stunk from day 1 imo. I understand that both sides are playing hardball but for me there is a difference between the types of the thing May has been coming out with and what has been coming out of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 3 May 2017 Share Posted 3 May 2017 Up to 97% of Britain's food and drink exports at risk from Brexit with no trade deal: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/03/uk-food-sector-faces-enormous-challenges-post-brexit-say-peers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrifox Posted 3 May 2017 Share Posted 3 May 2017 The Guardian eh ? Must be true then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 3 May 2017 Share Posted 3 May 2017 43 minutes ago, surrifox said: The Guardian eh ? Must be true then What an idiotic thing to say. It is a report from the EU Energy and Environment Subcommittee of the House of Lords, reported in the Guardian. Or are you accusing them of making that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrifox Posted 3 May 2017 Share Posted 3 May 2017 Just now, Buce said: What an idiotic thing to say. It is a report from the EU Energy and Environment Subcommittee of the House of Lords, reported in the Guardian. Or are you accusing them of making it up? They don't need to make it up just get selective quotes from individuals and a lot of coulda woulda shoulda - isn't that how fake news works ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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