General Election, June 8th

[Alf Bentley]

44 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Do you think Corbyn will resign if he loses?

 

I haven't been active in the Labour Party for years, so don't have inside information. So, pinch of salt, but....

 

My best guess would be "option 2" as described by @MattP.

I reckon the Corbynistas would ensure that he waited and then resigned once the rules for the leadership election had been changed, so they were guaranteed a Hard Left candidate on the ballot paper.

 

If Labour loses badly, I doubt that Corbyn would try to stay on permanently. I don't think he's a megalomaniac, bent on exercising personal power. He never really wanted to be leader, in fact.

His narcissism is of a different kind. He sees it as a personal mission to promote a "principled left-wing political platform". So, I reckon he'd go, but only once the Corbynistas were sure their next candidate would be on the ballot.

 

The question then is how the membership would react to a disastrous defeat. If they remained committed to the Momentum programme, then Corbyn's chosen successor would have the numbers to win....which might lead to a split & realignment.

But if a lot of Corbyn's supporters either change their minds or, more likely, drift away, then a more mainstream candidate might win - particularly if they reached out and made a few policy compromises with the Corbynistas. That might be quite feasible as Corbyn's programme isn't as extremist as some people think.

 

[EnderbyFox]

Less political discussion, more shitpost memes please. 

 

 

[Sharpe's Fox]

@MattP  will also be interesting to see if a drubbing increases the proportion of Corbyn-wing MP's in relation to the rest of the PLP and if any candidates parachuted into safe seats by the NEC will also get that part of the party to the 15% needed. McDonnell amendment may not be needed. 

[Alf Bentley]

2 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said:

Less political discussion, more shitpost memes please. 

 

 

 

Childish but..... 

 

She looked surprisingly close to that picture yesterday - older and looking worn and knackered.....and that's before an election and 2 years of negotiations!

[Foxxed]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

It's no secret, It's been widely covered in the press.  It doesn't seem to be making much impact in the polls.

 

The other parties aren't making much of this, probably because they know they're likely to be caught as well.

It's making no impact in the polls because the investigation hasn't finished.

 

And the investigation won't have finished before May has asked the electorate to vote for her again.

 

And why did the fraud investigation start?

 

It started because it was levelled against the Tories by Tory campaigners themselves.

 

They said it wasn't fair. They said it amounted to fraud. And so the investigation started.

 

And the Tory campaigners claiming this were in the key majority-winning seats in the South West.

[Innovindil]

Might have turned tail and fled like a yellow bellied rentboy but still has the greatest memes. 

 

 

 

[Finnaldo]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

I thought we wanted to see young people getting politically active and engaged? 

 

Or do the people saying this really mean they want young people getting active and engaged in just left-wing politics? 

 

I think you can argue that there's a difference between engaging young voters to research their options and vote well-informed and groups of younger voters (on both sides) hammering out malicious memes which are vastly untrue or far too simplified to be able to gain any real knowledge from it.

 

10 hours ago, Benguin said:

Not really, I expect you'd easily find some correlation, in one of these nonsense studies, showing that meme users are less likely to vote as they have pits to fester in.

 

I don't doubt that not all under 30's use memes that's not what I said, I said meme users are almost all under 30.

 

I take your point, but whilst memes are genuinely created and understood by under 30s, I think you're underestimating the audience somewhat. There's plenty of 30-50+y/os alongside younger users, most prevalent on Facebook, that take anything they see on there as gospel. I've heard of several 'this man chinned me nan pls share to get him caught xx'  posts that get thousands upon thousands of shares just to be revealed in never actually happened, and so many times a 'BMW Official Page' has offered to give away a car if you share, but just clicking on the page shows that the page only has about 200 likes...

 

People seem to either momentarily lose or just never had the critical thinking skills when on Social Media to realise that you have to take most news with a pinch of salt until you have enough viable information to make an informed opinion on the matter. Whilst most meme creators are most likely young, if you thrash up enough memes with pretty pictures and text with possibly a grain of fact and several tons of untruth that both old and young users will consume it and begin to believe it.

 

I will say that in my experience it is more prevalent of right wingers and they've really mastered it. There definitely is a fair proportion on the left, especially if you check Trump's tweets where the top replies are almost always left wing 'journalists' who just spray silly buzzwords and memes in chain messages due to either ego or some idea that it's somehow 'helping the cause', but in general the presence of the left is pretty unorganised as you have traditional left leaning supporters and then the ultraleft antifa sorts,and because they're so unorganised it becomes a game of just swarming over posts with a right wing bias and caling their opinion wrong, fascist and evil. However your typical alt-right meme projects a lot more sympathy to those who feel outcast, thy're a lot more united and organised as well.

 

I can understand if your opinion is they had little effect on political happenings, but from what I've seen I believe that they've played a role in taking views that some had no real desire in following through on or projecting and helping them appear a lot more mainstream and emboldening the movements they pushed online. I agree with Matt that it's good the youth have become more enfranchised, it's just a shame that it's in a way that stunts debate to petty lies and inability to compromise your views to have an intelligent discussion.

[Webbo]

7 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

It's making no impact in the polls because the investigation hasn't finished.

 

And the investigation won't have finished before May has asked the electorate to vote for her again.

 

And why did the fraud investigation start?

 

It started because it was levelled against the Tories by Tory campaigners themselves.

 

They said it wasn't fair. They said it amounted to fraud. And so the investigation started.

 

And the Tory campaigners claiming this were in the key majority-winning seats in the South West.

I think it was started by a complaint from UKIP. It doesn't matter whether the investigation is complete, people are throwing mud and it's not sticking. Thinking that the country will throw out the govt because they spent a bit too much of their own money on buses seems a bit desperate to me.

[EnderbyFox]

16 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Might have turned tail and fled like a yellow bellied rentboy but still has the greatest memes. 

 

 

 

 

Agreed. 

 

[Foxxed]

6 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I think it was started by a complaint from UKIP. It doesn't matter whether the investigation is complete, people are throwing mud and it's not sticking. Thinking that the country will throw out the govt because they spent a bit too much of their own money on buses seems a bit desperate to me.

Sending campaigners into key constituencies to talk to key voters in marginal seats is very, very effective.

 

And there are Tory campaigners giving evidence that the funds were misused to fund this.

 

May knows Tory campaigners are now helping an investigation into her majority-winning seats.

 

If May asks the voters to vote AFTER the investigation she'll likely be asking to reclaim seats she lost through fraud - madness.

[Rincewind]

Well I expect no less from Tory MP's but I would not ake excuses for any P' being in volved in expenses fraud. 

 

I wonder how much fiddling is going on that we do not know about? It's pretty bad situation when people defend and make excuses for bent politicians. 

No wonder people are cynical about them.

[Webbo]

6 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Sending campaigners into key constituencies to talk to key voters in marginal seats is very, very effective.

 

And there are Tory campaigners giving evidence that the funds were misused to fund this.

 

May knows Tory campaigners are now helping an investigation into her majority-winning seats.

 

If May asks the voters to vote AFTER the investigation she'll likely be asking to reclaim seats she lost through fraud - madness.

You're required to help a police investigation.

 

I've not claimed it was the right thing to do, I'm just saying nobody cares. Do you really think that people would be so angry about this that they'd gladly have 5 years of Corbyn in power because of it?

[Benguin]

14 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

I think you can argue that there's a difference between engaging young voters to research their options and vote well-informed and groups of younger voters (on both sides) hammering out malicious memes which are vastly untrue or far too simplified to be able to gain any real knowledge from it.

 

 

I take your point, but whilst memes are genuinely created and understood by under 30s, I think you're underestimating the audience somewhat. There's plenty of 30-50+y/os alongside younger users, most prevalent on Facebook, that take anything they see on there as gospel. I've heard of several 'this man chinned me nan pls share to get him caught xx'  posts that get thousands upon thousands of shares just to be revealed in never actually happened, and so many times a 'BMW Official Page' has offered to give away a car if you share, but just clicking on the page shows that the page only has about 200 likes...

 

People seem to either momentarily lose or just never had the critical thinking skills when on Social Media to realise that you have to take most news with a pinch of salt until you have enough viable information to make an informed opinion on the matter. Whilst most meme creators are most likely young, if you thrash up enough memes with pretty pictures and text with possibly a grain of fact and several tons of untruth that both old and young users will consume it and begin to believe it.

 

I will say that in my experience it is more prevalent of right wingers and they've really mastered it. There definitely is a fair proportion on the left, especially if you check Trump's tweets where the top replies are almost always left wing 'journalists' who just spray silly buzzwords and memes in chain messages due to either ego or some idea that it's somehow 'helping the cause', but in general the presence of the left is pretty unorganised as you have traditional left leaning supporters and then the ultraleft antifa sorts,and because they're so unorganised it becomes a game of just swarming over posts with a right wing bias and caling their opinion wrong, fascist and evil. However your typical alt-right meme projects a lot more sympathy to those who feel outcast, thy're a lot more united and organised as well.

 

I can understand if your opinion is they had little effect on political happenings, but from what I've seen I believe that they've played a role in taking views that some had no real desire in following through on or projecting and helping them appear a lot more mainstream and emboldening the movements they pushed online. I agree with Matt that it's good the youth have become more enfranchised, it's just a shame that it's in a way that stunts debate to petty lies and inability to compromise your views to have an intelligent discussion.

Wow I cant believe people are actually debating this. My post had nothing to do with fake news, I agree with you that a good proportion of social media users are idiots and will believe anything.

 

My point is and remains that using a meme to argue your point, is often because you are not intelligent enough or are unable to articulate a counter argument.

 

Quite frankly I don't care who uses meme's the most, be it the left or the right, I see loads of them used by both and for anyone to suggest they have conducted a study and found so and so in relations to meme's is just outrageous.

[Guest MattP]

52 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

@MattP  will also be interesting to see if a drubbing increases the proportion of Corbyn-wing MP's in relation to the rest of the PLP and if any candidates parachuted into safe seats by the NEC will also get that part of the party to the 15% needed. McDonnell amendment may not be needed. 

It's already started, his team are far more competent when it comes to fighting the Labour moderates than going after the Tories.

 

P.S

 

[Finnaldo]

41 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Wow I cant believe people are actually debating this. My post had nothing to do with fake news, I agree with you that a good proportion of social media users are idiots and will believe anything.

 

My point is and remains that using a meme to argue your point, is often because you are not intelligent enough or are unable to articulate a counter argument.

 

Quite frankly I don't care who uses meme's the most, be it the left or the right, I see loads of them used by both and for anyone to suggest they have conducted a study and found so and so in relations to meme's is just outrageous.

 

Fair enough, I didn't understand your point  Nah I agree with you in that respect

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

 

I think you can argue that there's a difference between engaging young voters to research their options and vote well-informed and groups of younger voters (on both sides) hammering out malicious memes which are vastly untrue or far too simplified to be able to gain any real knowledge from it.

 

 

I take your point, but whilst memes are genuinely created and understood by under 30s, I think you're underestimating the audience somewhat. There's plenty of 30-50+y/os alongside younger users, most prevalent on Facebook, that take anything they see on there as gospel. I've heard of several 'this man chinned me nan pls share to get him caught xx'  posts that get thousands upon thousands of shares just to be revealed in never actually happened, and so many times a 'BMW Official Page' has offered to give away a car if you share, but just clicking on the page shows that the page only has about 200 likes...

 

People seem to either momentarily lose or just never had the critical thinking skills when on Social Media to realise that you have to take most news with a pinch of salt until you have enough viable information to make an informed opinion on the matter. Whilst most meme creators are most likely young, if you thrash up enough memes with pretty pictures and text with possibly a grain of fact and several tons of untruth that both old and young users will consume it and begin to believe it.

 

I will say that in my experience it is more prevalent of right wingers and they've really mastered it. There definitely is a fair proportion on the left, especially if you check Trump's tweets where the top replies are almost always left wing 'journalists' who just spray silly buzzwords and memes in chain messages due to either ego or some idea that it's somehow 'helping the cause', but in general the presence of the left is pretty unorganised as you have traditional left leaning supporters and then the ultraleft antifa sorts,and because they're so unorganised it becomes a game of just swarming over posts with a right wing bias and caling their opinion wrong, fascist and evil. However your typical alt-right meme projects a lot more sympathy to those who feel outcast, thy're a lot more united and organised as well.

 

I can understand if your opinion is they had little effect on political happenings, but from what I've seen I believe that they've played a role in taking views that some had no real desire in following through on or projecting and helping them appear a lot more mainstream and emboldening the movements they pushed online. I agree with Matt that it's good the youth have become more enfranchised, it's just a shame that it's in a way that stunts debate to petty lies and inability to compromise your views to have an intelligent discussion.

11

This is so important, and the biggest advantage the right (and alt-right) have.

 

45 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Wow I cant believe people are actually debating this. My post had nothing to do with fake news, I agree with you that a good proportion of social media users are idiots and will believe anything.

 

My point is and remains that using a meme to argue your point, is often because you are not intelligent enough or are unable to articulate a counter argument.

 

Quite frankly I don't care who uses meme's the most, be it the left or the right, I see loads of them used by both and for anyone to suggest they have conducted a study and found so and so in relations to meme's is just outrageous.

 

I take responsibility for opening that particular can of worms, sorry about that.

 

I should have articulated it better, but I felt that frankly your post was dismissing the effect of the alt-right and what they can do (because dismissing meme creators often also means dismissing them, not your intention I know) and to do that is dangerous in the extreme. Underestimating them is a mistake that has been made too many times already.

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, MattP said:

I thought we wanted to see young people getting politically active and engaged? 

 

Or do the people saying this really mean they want young people getting active and engaged in just left-wing politics? 

 

I definitely want to see under 30's getting more politically active no matter their allegiance. I'm just not a fan of people underestimating the alt-right - not with the success they've enjoyed in recent times.

[Nick]

5 hours ago, davieG said:

Define a meme please as they just look like made up pictures trying to be funny but fail in most cases or go completely over my old head?

[Strokes]

I've never used a meme to my knowledge. I'm not gay.

[bovril]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I've never used a meme to my knowledge. I'm not gay.

[Buce]

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I've never used a meme to my knowledge. I'm not gay.

 

[Nick]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I've never used a meme to my knowledge. I'm not gay.

[Guest MattP]

To the non meme users, Tim Farron and his Liberal Democrats.

 

 

[Innovindil]

16 minutes ago, bovril said:

 

11 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

To the non meme users, Tim Farron and his Liberal Democrats.

 

 

Strokes reaction:

 

 

 

[Nick]

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/04/20/theresa-mays-coalition-chaos-warning-feels-strangely-familiar/