Foxxed Posted 28 May 2017 Posted 28 May 2017 Brucey's remarks in the u21 thread about Shakey's role in the development squad really makes me want him to stay. If our youth development could reach to Sotton's level and we stay in the Premier League I'd be very, very tempted to give him the job. I think he's one of the finest coaches we'll ever have yet his management role can be clearly seen in terms of the post-Ranieri honeymoon and post-Athletico. If you want to be harsh you can see Seville as a poor Seville side. I have two ideal situations. The first is we appoint him and, judging him only on the post Athletico matches, he improves massively. The second is we appoint someone else but only on the condition that Shakey is lead coach and a highly influential assistant manager.
Bluetintedspecs Posted 28 May 2017 Posted 28 May 2017 8 minutes ago, Foxxed said: Brucey's remarks in the u21 thread about Shakey's role in the development squad really makes me want him to stay. If our youth development could reach to Sotton's level and we stay in the Premier League I'd be very, very tempted to give him the job. I think he's one of the finest coaches we'll ever have yet his management role can be clearly seen in terms of the post-Ranieri honeymoon and post-Athletico. If you want to be harsh you can see Seville as a poor Seville side. I have two ideal situations. The first is we appoint him and, judging him only on the post Athletico matches, he improves massively. The second is we appoint someone else but only on the condition that Shakey is lead coach and a highly influential assistant manager. I see your point Foxxed, however the only scenario I can see this happening and Shakey staying would be a completely joint Manager situation. For example, and this is purely hypothetical, someone like Fat Sam coming in as side by side joint manager/ assistant to help Shaky in transition for one season then he's on his own Full time season two! Personally I think Shakey is ready and will do a good job building his own backroom team with the same ethos that has previously worked.
Lionator Posted 28 May 2017 Posted 28 May 2017 The club will be healthier in the long term with Shaky than any other journeyman manager who might keep us 10th for 2/3 years max.
MPH Posted 28 May 2017 Posted 28 May 2017 4 hours ago, Thracian said: I've never been more impressed with the leadership of our club but disagree that they've always made great decisions...and I suspect they would too...which is a good sign and perhaps covered by your comment about learning quickly. Well I DID add that they quickly learnt from the Sven saga...
Foxxed Posted 28 May 2017 Posted 28 May 2017 5 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said: I see your point Foxxed, however the only scenario I can see this happening and Shakey staying would be a completely joint Manager situation. For example, and this is purely hypothetical, someone like Fat Sam coming in as side by side joint manager/ assistant to help Shaky in transition for one season then he's on his own Full time season two! Personally I think Shakey is ready and will do a good job building his own backroom team with the same ethos that has previously worked. I'm hoping the delay is Top ensuring Shakey has a good team beside him to give him the best support to succeed. The delay is either because of Shakey's uncertainty or the owners. If we can bring in staff for Shakey to learn from and take advice from then I think he has a very good chance of succeeding, but if we throw him in the deep end - from personable jolly coach to hard nosed tactical manager - then I'd worry about us.
Lovejoy Posted 28 May 2017 Posted 28 May 2017 7 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said: I see your point Foxxed, however the only scenario I can see this happening and Shakey staying would be a completely joint Manager situation. For example, and this is purely hypothetical, someone like Fat Sam coming in as side by side joint manager/ assistant to help Shaky in transition for one season then he's on his own Full time season two! Personally I think Shakey is ready and will do a good job building his own backroom team with the same ethos that has previously worked. A proper Director of Football is what is required in 2017. I use the word proper as common consensus is our current DOF ain't all that. Shakey should be a Head Coach.
Nick Posted 28 May 2017 Posted 28 May 2017 This needs to be sewn up this week. We need a figurehead at the helm moving into the transfer window.
fuchsntf Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 7 hours ago, Swan Lesta said: This needs to be sewn up this week. We need a figurehead at the helm moving into the transfer window. Yes the time for any "next season" gets shorter. For our predictament, and + points status.... If Shakey ..done deal, within next 2 weeks contract on table. If new guy..Last week in June at the latest. By middle July, whoever it is, should be heating up the seat and training field already.!!!
Countryfox Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 3 minutes ago, GaelicFox said: This delay is NOT a good sign ! Whether they go for CS, or the 'Big name', they have had since CR got the boot to get this sorted ... so it would seem that an agreement hasn't been made ... and that usually involves cash (or length of contract). You'd have thought that someone would realise that stalling on issues like this would have a detrimental effect on the club and a short term cash saving now could well be far outweighed by the potential damage. Players might leave and others might not join. It's just the same with looking at a new signing ... Stall over a couple of mil now and when you decide you really want AND NEED him he's playing for England and his value has gone through the roof. The Thais have my utmost respect and trust, but please ... GET IT SORTED.
fuchsntf Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 19 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Whether they go for CS, or the 'Big name', they have had since CR got the boot to get this sorted ... so it would seem that an agreement hasn't been made ... and that usually involves cash (or length of contract). You'd have thought that someone would realise that stalling on issues like this would have a detrimental effect on the club and a short term cash saving now could well be far outweighed by the potential damage. Players might leave and others might not join. It's just the same with looking at a new signing ... Stall over a couple of mil now and when you decide you really want AND NEED him he's playing for England and his value has gone through the roof. The Thais have my utmost respect and trust, but please ... GET IT SORTED. Its us who are doing the worrying.. There may be no delay. The Talks were apparently, to be after Monaco. So its the 1st day......They may still be discussing which Boat, they wanna float up the Soar. Or which car they can have next year, maybe just recuperating from watching Vardy lose his millions at the Casino..
GaelicFox Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 18 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: Its us who are doing the worrying.. There may be no delay. The Talks were apparently, to be after Monaco. So its the 1st day......They may still be discussing which Boat, they wanna float up the Soar. Or which car they can have next year, maybe just recuperating from watching Vardy lose his millions at the Casino.. The talks started last Tuesday according to most outlets and we are not the only ones worrying the football world kicks into overdrive now from this week onwards with transfers and management moves a week delay now is not good
bald reynard Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 13 minutes ago, GaelicFox said: The talks started last Tuesday according to most outlets and we are not the only ones worrying the football world kicks into overdrive now from this week onwards with transfers and management moves a week delay now is not good Look how quickly Watford got their act into gear. Mazzarri resigns on the Sunday, Silva is appointed 5 days later. Watford can start doing business now !
Clever Fox Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 It's hard to understand what's going on, We know Shakey wants it so it should only be the finer points after Salary. Or is someone trying to get him on the cheap?.
Beachyboy Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 9 minutes ago, Clever Fox said: It's hard to understand what's going on, We know Shakey wants it so it should only be the finer points after Salary. Or is someone trying to get him on the cheap?. If I had to guess i'd say length of contract/ backroom staff/ recruitment of players, is what the hold ups will be down to. A 2 year contract, I believe is best, for both sides, I have no doubts regarding whether Shakey could replicate this season 11th-14th Finish, the recruitment an his abilities as a manager, will determine whether the club can push on to 7th-10th.
Countryfox Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 5 minutes ago, Beachyboy said: If I had to guess i'd say length of contract/ backroom staff/ recruitment of players, is what the hold ups will be down to. Nah ... they've got their eyes on someone else and if they don't pull it out they'll end up with sod all.
Scotch Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 I reckon the delay is the coaching staff. It's more likely that the will announce "Shakespear given permanent role with X as his assistant" than it is for then to announce Shakey as Manager and then have to go find him some pals.
bald reynard Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 28 minutes ago, Clever Fox said: It's hard to understand what's going on, We know Shakey wants it so it should only be the finer points after Salary. Or is someone trying to get him on the cheap?. 14 minutes ago, Beachyboy said: If I had to guess i'd say length of contract/ backroom staff/ recruitment of players, is what the hold ups will be down to. A 2 year contract, I believe is best, for both sides, I have no doubts regarding whether Shakey could replicate this season 11th-14th Finish, the recruitment an his abilities as a manager, will determine whether the club can push on to 7th-10th. See my post on 'Additional Coaching Staff to help Shakespeare'. I think the delay in Shaky being appointed, is down to the owners not agreeing yet on the Coaching team he'll get.
AmarteyAndChill Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 1 minute ago, bald reynard said: See my post on 'Additional Coaching staff to help Shakespeare'. I think the delay in Shaky being appointed, is down to the owners not agreeing yet on the Coaching team he'll get. The coaching staff has nothing to do with the owners?
bald reynard Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 1 minute ago, AmarteyAndChill said: The coaching staff has nothing to do with the owners? Course it is - the owners (and their Executive Managers, like Rudkin) hire and fire staff. Shakespeare, as Team Manager, will have input on recommendations and a say in final choices of Coaching staff (hopefully !), but the actual decisions and the drawing up the contracts, will be made by Rudkin, in consultation with the owners.
Clever Fox Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 23 minutes ago, Beachyboy said: If I had to guess i'd say length of contract/ backroom staff/ recruitment of players, is what the hold ups will be down to. A 2 year contract, I believe is best, for both sides, I have no doubts regarding whether Shakey could replicate this season 11th-14th Finish, the recruitment an his abilities as a manager, will determine whether the club can push on to 7th-10th. That all sounds about right to me. Could the problem possibly be who has final say on transfers.? Shakey or Rudkin.
GaelicFox Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 What ever the reason for the delay it's a delay and it's a problem this club needs stability next year
Clever Fox Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 16 minutes ago, bald reynard said: Course it is - the owners (and their Executive Managers, like Rudkin) hire and fire staff. Shakespeare, as Team Manager, will have input on recommendations and a say in final choices of Coaching staff (hopefully !), but the actual decisions and the drawing up the contracts, will be made by Rudkin, in consultation with the owners. Not necessarily. The Managers contract should be with the CEO and not the DIR. The very reason being a conflict of interest and jealousy. The Dir might be party to choosing the Manager but shouldn't have any part of his contract.
Countryfox Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 8 minutes ago, GaelicFox said: What ever the reason for the delay it's a delay and it's a problem this club needs stability next year We keep saying it Paddy but I'm not sure how many agree with us .... Every day lost puts us a day behind the rest of the pack in terms of preparation for next season.
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 29 May 2017 Posted 29 May 2017 2 hours ago, Countryfox said: Whether they go for CS, or the 'Big name', they have had since CR got the boot to get this sorted ... so it would seem that an agreement hasn't been made ... and that usually involves cash (or length of contract). You'd have thought that someone would realise that stalling on issues like this would have a detrimental effect on the club and a short term cash saving now could well be far outweighed by the potential damage. Players might leave and others might not join. It's just the same with looking at a new signing ... Stall over a couple of mil now and when you decide you really want AND NEED him he's playing for England and his value has gone through the roof. The Thais have my utmost respect and trust, but please ... GET IT SORTED. Yes not paying £15m for Keane last season is a prime example, when I think we offered £12m and didn't follow it through. Now it's £25m. If it's been decided a player is the right one, in this 'market' £5m either way should not matter.
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