Is Shakespeare the right man for the job?

[StriderHiryu]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Totally agree with every word. Spot on.

 

If this was all happening with an available Iborra or Silva (both are very singificant, and neither situation can be put on him) I'd understand it a lot more.

 

People who want him out already I'm convinced are desperate for him to fail.

I don't understand why people want him to fail! He's been part of the club for years and part of our greatest ever achievements. He earned the right to be made boss full time and we need to get behind him. Our opening fixtures have been the hardest of any team in the league and whilst we've only got 3 points, we've done OK and are unlucky to not have at least 1 more point on the board. Shakespeare has also been well and truly hamstrung by the club selling one of our best midfielders and replacing him with an "I owe you Adrien Silva" note that we can cash in come January.

 

It may later transpire that he's not up to the job, but equally he might smash it out of the park. We've got a great squad so get behind him and the lads. I think once we've played 10 games we can make a better assessment of how we'll do this year.

[Col city fan]

I think it's about levels of expectation. Rightly or wrongly, I look at our squad and I'm expecting us to be lower half of the table. I don't think we're as good as people think we are and I maintain, our recruitment could have been much better.

[Blue ROI]

A win against one of the big 3 teams we've faced was always unlikely. 

 

Prior to arsenal last month since our top flight return we had only 2 wins from 18 games against Arsenal, man utd and chelsea.

 

Shakey's progress really should be measured against teams we have something of a decent record against. 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I think it's about levels of expectation. Rightly or wrongly, I look at our squad and I'm expecting us to be lower half of the table. I don't think we're as good as people think we are and I maintain, our recruitment could have been much better.

Out of interest, if Silva came in now and everyone was fit would you still expect lower half of the table?

[5waller5]

2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I think it's about levels of expectation. Rightly or wrongly, I look at our squad and I'm expecting us to be lower half of the table. I don't think we're as good as people think we are and I maintain, our recruitment could have been much better.

 

Phew, Thankfully order is restored and I disagree entirely (having silently agreed with you on a few posts recently).

 

For me we are underperforming with the resources / players available.

[inckley fox]

7 hours ago, EnglishOxide said:

 

True.

 

But I think we should take more from performances in those games rather than results.

 

Spurs last season was an exception, but so far under Shakespeare's leadership we have at least kept it tight and been in the match against these big clubs even if the result didn't go our way. With Claudio last season we offered nothing in those games.

 

It's a bit unfair to pinpoint subs as sole turning points in matches like the Arsenal one where I think theres more of a case of laying blame at the players feet for switching off. Or simply accepting the opposition had superior players and shit happens.

I'd go along with that. The logic behind the substitutions has been fine even though they haven't necessarily had a positive effect. Some of them were probably wrong and we can see that with hindsight, even though they made sense or even seemed overdue at the time. Others seemed questionable at the time. But it's hardly the defining problem of our season.

 

When a side has declined it's too easy to lash out at the manager but the decline was always going to happen unless we did incredibly well in the market, which we didn't in summer 2016 and we didn't on Deadline Day 2017 (neither of which, I'd guess, had much to do with the boss). The decline itself has more to do with psychological factors ('where do we go from here? I've done everything I could have hoped for at LCFC'), age (six of the title-winning eleven now being into, or well into their 30s) and the two key departures.

 

It doesn't mean to say we can't improve how we do business, reduce the age of the squad, build for the future. But if we focus on the substitutions of the current boss, or even on a sprinkling of bad performances, instead of thee factors, then we'll be failing to see the bigger picture.

[Max Wall]

Feck knows but he's our man.

[inckley fox]

5 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I think it's about levels of expectation. Rightly or wrongly, I look at our squad and I'm expecting us to be lower half of the table. I don't think we're as good as people think we are and I maintain, our recruitment could have been much better.

A lot of people were very encouraged by the signings this summer and it's too early to say that Iheanacho, Dragovic, Iborra won't step up, like Maguire has. Personally, I think it's hard to defend recruitment when you sell a key player and don't replace him. Plus, the Maguire signing wasn't a response to what we needed in summer 2017, it was a response to something we'd needed in summer 2016 when Ranieri was desperate to bring in a CB. So we're trying to strike a balance between playing catch-up and not flooding the squad with new faces that don't necessarily fit in right away.

 

If I had a groan, it'd be that we're not uncovering talent, which is what our success was based on.

 

On the one hand we're not graduating younger players - which I understand because I'm not sure Chilwell should be in the side over Fuchs, or Gray over Albrighton, and I'm fairly sure that Thomas / Hughes / Ndukwu / Knight / Barnes aren't first team material yet.

 

On the other hand, we aren't uncovering talent in our transfer policy either, we're bringing in guys who we hope can hit the ground running. Guys that sides above us don't especially fancy.

 

I appreciate that we have to take care of the short term and avoid another relegation scrap. I appreciate that we've still managed to pick up what seems to be a bargain in Maguire. And I appreciate that when you're a bigger club you have to pay bigger fees for the Vardys of the world and can't give them the first team opportunities that we could before. But I'd like to see evidence of a new, ambitious project at the club based around what worked for us before, rather than us fishing for the established talent which is either too well-established for us to stand a chance of signing, or not wanted by anyone else. Some evidence of a scouting network would be nice.

 

This is just a personal opinion rather than a critique of the club's business. On paper we made some good additions and, if these guys add to what we've got, we'll reflect positively on our recruitment.

[Col city fan]

3 hours ago, 5waller5 said:

 

Phew, Thankfully order is restored and I disagree entirely (having silently agreed with you on a few posts recently).

 

For me we are underperforming with the resources / players available.

Excellent. Good for you.

[Bluetintedspecs]

8 hours ago, 5waller5 said:

 

Phew, Thankfully order is restored and I disagree entirely (having silently agreed with you on a few posts recently).

 

For me we are underperforming with the resources / players available.

Of those resources Waller we've been missing Huth, Iborra, Iheanacho,Drinky pre sale and now the Silva debacle. That is a big miss from our potential starting line up.

[5waller5]

2 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Of those resources Waller we've been missing Huth, Iborra, Iheanacho,Drinky pre sale and now the Silva debacle. That is a big miss from our potential starting line up.

Very true...... we'll have a better picture in a month or two!!

[Dan LCFC]

I just feel like he gets a lot more stick based on who he is rather than what he's done. I know it sounds like victim mentality when people like Dyche say it but I do think there's an instinctive bias against English managers now. Say a new bloke had come in and done what we have so far, I reckon they'd be cut a lot more slack and rightly so. Shakespeare gets more stick because he's got Pearson links (who some people will always have it in for, rightly or wrongly (wrongly)) and because there's nothing fashionable about him.

 

I don't think he should be immune from criticism in the slightest, but I do think whatever he does wrong gets exaggerated. Are people really writing him and Leicester off based on four games, three of them against sides who'll contend for top four places (and two of them aiming for the title) whilst we're still well short in midfield through no fault of his own? I don't know, I think he gets a rough deal at times but I thought the same about Pearson.

 

If we succumb to a pathetic loss this weekend I'd be a bit less confident in him (and I worry it really would start to spread, vicious cycle with us having a habit of losing) but this Silva situation should not be overlooked. He had his best midfielder sold right at the death and the incompetent arsewipes behind the scenes failed to land his replacement.

 

It's far too early I think to be talking of getting rid. See where we are by the next two international breaks (Hudders A, Liverpool H, Bournemouth A.... then WBA H, Swansea A, Everton H, Stoke A) and I agree if we're still around here then there are issues.

[chicagofox]

7 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Are people really writing him and Leicester off based on four games, 

 

I think some people are taking the back end of last season in to account and looking at 3 wins in 12.

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I just feel like he gets a lot more stick based on who he is rather than what he's done. I know it sounds like victim mentality when people like Dyche say it but I do think there's an instinctive bias against English managers now. Say a new bloke had come in and done what we have so far, I reckon they'd be cut a lot more slack and rightly so. Shakespeare gets more stick because he's got Pearson links (who some people will always have it in for, rightly or wrongly (wrongly)) and because there's nothing fashionable about him.

 

I don't think he should be immune from criticism in the slightest, but I do think whatever he does wrong gets exaggerated. Are people really writing him and Leicester off based on four games, three of them against sides who'll contend for top four places (and two of them aiming for the title) whilst we're still well short in midfield through no fault of his own? I don't know, I think he gets a rough deal at times but I thought the same about Pearson.

 

If we succumb to a pathetic loss this weekend I'd be a bit less confident in him (and I worry it really would start to spread, vicious cycle with us having a habit of losing) but this Silva situation should not be overlooked. He had his best midfielder sold right at the death and the incompetent arsewipes behind the scenes failed to land his replacement.

 

It's far too early I think to be talking of getting rid. See where we are by the next two international breaks (Hudders A, Liverpool H, Bournemouth A.... then WBA H, Swansea A, Everton H, Stoke A) and I agree if we're still around here then there are issues.

I'm still trying to gauge if he's anywhere near good enough. Since the honeymoon period our form at the back end of the season and then this season is poor. We've had a number of injury problems though which we never really used to get so it has got to be a factor. As you say we'll know more in the coming weeks/months when we play slightly easier teams and hopefully the mentality and confidence is still easy to find.

 

I've an urge for this club to make serious changes on and off the field, I think if we're truly the ambitious club we claim to be that it'll happen in the next 12-18 months when we realise that the success we had is never returning without going back to the drawing board.

 

This might be a simplistic and idealistic view because it's not easy to improve and change successfully but given what this club has shown it's capable of, I'd be horrified if we didn't back ourselves to be able to. 

 

I think our academy, recruitment, director of football, executives and in all honesty manager/coaches and playing staff and style needs a huge overhaul. The loyalty we have to some is understandable and they've given us the best few years we've ever had and possibly ever will have. But successful teams know when it's time to stick or twist and I've had the feeling for a while we need to twist. I'm appalled with our DOF and academy which has started to worry me that our owners aren't as clued up as we thought they are. They place a lot of trust in loyalty and honour but underachievement in football is unforgivable long term and we've people employed at this club in positions they aren't qualified or good enough for a PL team, a PL team that somehow won th fcuker not long ago.

 

We need to be ruthless and get in the very best off the field in recruitment, DOF and academy. I'd even be looking for a chief exec who has been at an elite club and knows what it takes to be established and stay established. We still have a golden reputation from our title win, with each season that passes we'll lose that and it'll be nigh on impossible to attract such personnel.

 

Then I'd look at our first team and it's management. This will always be the main focus and any changes no doubt will hit our manager, coaches and players if we struggle this season but they're the ones who have produced the tangible success and have bought the right for time but with a new senior off the field team we could then implement new plans to move this club forward. 

 

I'm sure this will be derided as being too idealistic and not achievable in the real world but we've never cared much as a club for what is realistic and what is not. 

 

Twist.

[somebum]

21 hours ago, Blue ROI said:

A win against one of the big 3 teams we've faced was always unlikely. 

 

Prior to arsenal last month since our top flight return we had only 2 wins from 18 games against Arsenal, man utd and chelsea.

 

Shakey's progress really should be measured against teams we have something of a decent record against. 

Why? 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

14 minutes ago, somebum said:

Why? 

A lot of people on here think that it doesnt matter at all if we dont pick up points off the big teams and we shouldnt expect to

[somebum]

1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

A lot of people on here think that it doesnt matter at all if we dont pick up points off the big teams and we shouldnt expect to

wonder what these people think is the point of showing up at all? 

[somebum]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm still trying to gauge if he's anywhere near good enough. Since the honeymoon period our form at the back end of the season and then this season is poor. We've had a number of injury problems though which we never really used to get so it has got to be a factor. As you say we'll know more in the coming weeks/months when we play slightly easier teams and hopefully the mentality and confidence is still easy to find.

 

I've an urge for this club to make serious changes on and off the field, I think if we're truly the ambitious club we claim to be that it'll happen in the next 12-18 months when we realise that the success we had is never returning without going back to the drawing board.

 

This might be a simplistic and idealistic view because it's not easy to improve and change successfully but given what this club has shown it's capable of, I'd be horrified if we didn't back ourselves to be able to. 

 

I think our academy, recruitment, director of football, executives and in all honesty manager/coaches and playing staff and style needs a huge overhaul. The loyalty we have to some is understandable and they've given us the best few years we've ever had and possibly ever will have. But successful teams know when it's time to stick or twist and I've had the feeling for a while we need to twist. I'm appalled with our DOF and academy which has started to worry me that our owners aren't as clued up as we thought they are. They place a lot of trust in loyalty and honour but underachievement in football is unforgivable long term and we've people employed at this club in positions they aren't qualified or good enough for a PL team, a PL team that somehow won th fcuker not long ago.

 

We need to be ruthless and get in the very best off the field in recruitment, DOF and academy. I'd even be looking for a chief exec who has been at an elite club and knows what it takes to be established and stay established. We still have a golden reputation from our title win, with each season that passes we'll lose that and it'll be nigh on impossible to attract such personnel.

 

Then I'd look at our first team and it's management. This will always be the main focus and any changes no doubt will hit our manager, coaches and players if we struggle this season but they're the ones who have produced the tangible success and have bought the right for time but with a new senior off the field team we could then implement new plans to move this club forward. 

 

I'm sure this will be derided as being too idealistic and not achievable in the real world but we've never cared much as a club for what is realistic and what is not. 

 

Twist.

Right on! 

[Dan LCFC]

17 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm still trying to gauge if he's anywhere near good enough. Since the honeymoon period our form at the back end of the season and then this season is poor. We've had a number of injury problems though which we never really used to get so it has got to be a factor. As you say we'll know more in the coming weeks/months when we play slightly easier teams and hopefully the mentality and confidence is still easy to find.

 

I've an urge for this club to make serious changes on and off the field, I think if we're truly the ambitious club we claim to be that it'll happen in the next 12-18 months when we realise that the success we had is never returning without going back to the drawing board.

 

This might be a simplistic and idealistic view because it's not easy to improve and change successfully but given what this club has shown it's capable of, I'd be horrified if we didn't back ourselves to be able to. 

 

I think our academy, recruitment, director of football, executives and in all honesty manager/coaches and playing staff and style needs a huge overhaul. The loyalty we have to some is understandable and they've given us the best few years we've ever had and possibly ever will have. But successful teams know when it's time to stick or twist and I've had the feeling for a while we need to twist. I'm appalled with our DOF and academy which has started to worry me that our owners aren't as clued up as we thought they are. They place a lot of trust in loyalty and honour but underachievement in football is unforgivable long term and we've people employed at this club in positions they aren't qualified or good enough for a PL team, a PL team that somehow won th fcuker not long ago.

 

We need to be ruthless and get in the very best off the field in recruitment, DOF and academy. I'd even be looking for a chief exec who has been at an elite club and knows what it takes to be established and stay established. We still have a golden reputation from our title win, with each season that passes we'll lose that and it'll be nigh on impossible to attract such personnel.

 

Then I'd look at our first team and it's management. This will always be the main focus and any changes no doubt will hit our manager, coaches and players if we struggle this season but they're the ones who have produced the tangible success and have bought the right for time but with a new senior off the field team we could then implement new plans to move this club forward. 

 

I'm sure this will be derided as being too idealistic and not achievable in the real world but we've never cared much as a club for what is realistic and what is not. 

 

Twist.

I agree with the majority of that to be honest. I think in terms of infrastructure we're behind where we should be, and I'll take pelters for this but I'm still not convinced the owners are totally sure about what will actually make us successful over a longer period. The title win was amazing but you can't say it was planned for in the slightest. We won it completely out of the blue, four weeks before the season we were panicking looking for a manager for fvcks sake  

 

I maintain what I've said on here for ages, that the bulk of our success was down to the footballing infrastructure we had under Pearson. He wasn't perfect, but he had this club organised in that regard and I think the owners have kind of taken a lot of it for granted. I think if it isn't sorted then it will eventually relegate us. I've lost faith in our ability to replenish ourselves.

 

Regarding Shakespeare himself I think it's too early to write him off. I'll concede it hasn't been great since that opening few games but he's had a lot go against him as well. This Silva business the prime example. If we have Silva and Iborra fit and we're still seeing King feature I'll concede he's the wrong man.

Edited 15 September 2017 by Dan LCFC

[sylofox]

On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:11, 5waller5 said:

 

Phew, Thankfully order is restored and I disagree entirely (having silently agreed with you on a few posts recently).

 

For me we are underperforming with the resources / players available.

You need some serious help agreeing with anything Col says is bad enough. But your even nuts enough to admit you agreed with him  

[Col city fan]

9 hours ago, sylofox said:

You need some serious help agreeing with anything Col says is bad enough. But your even nuts enough to admit you agreed with him  

Quiet Welly! Back under that rock....

[Johnthefoxrayner]

On 13/09/2017 at 01:39, EnglishOxide said:

 

True.

 

And I'm utterly baffled by it.

 

Here's a man that has played a significant part in us winning 3 leagues, reaching the Champions League quarter finals and avoiding relegation twice.

 

And people don't want to give him more than say 7 or 8 games? They're not real fans IMO. Show some support and stop judging the bloke on results against teams like United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Well said, totally agree with you. IMO Shakey will do a good job and I believe we will finish top 8. If the owners do get rid of Shakey there is no one I can think of to replace him. I want Shakey to stay. All those so called fans that don't think he is good enough Shakey will prove you all wrong. 

[Livid]

I'm not totally convinced everything can be laid at his feet. On the pitch it's been a mixed bag, there has been some good performances, the actual poor performances by the team have been out numbered by the ones where we have just set up wrong or have made tactical errors.  I'm hoping he learns from that.

 

I think us winning the league caused us to deviate from the plan for the club that was in place and we've struggled to adjust generally.

 

 

[Clever Fox]

Part of our problems is that theirs to many staff recruits learning on the job.As demonstrated by the Silva fiasco. Having said that you can't blame Shakey for any of that. He's also been hampered by injuries upsetting his plans. Until he has a full squad for selection it's hard to criticise him, especially with the Teams we played against. But I do have issues with his style of play. We're in no way balanced as a Team and that's one of the fundamental requirements of successful Teams. He's expecting too much from Vardy and Mahrez, And could be part of the reason Mahrez want's out. They both need more support when in possession. That's why you need players good on the Ball with a bit of pace. Maybe when the new players get settled we might see more continuity. But it's way too early questioning Shakey's  performance as Manager and Coach.

[the fox]

OK, I'm officially on the "start gray over albrighton" brigade!

 

For all his upsides, he doesn't offer enough going forward (talking about Marc), and in a team where the fullbacks/CMs aren't offering much going forward, I would take gray over Marc any day of the week!

 

All shakey needs is to find a way to ease the defensive duties on the wingers, they aren't getting enough support going forward so why are they offering so much defensively? If the fullbacks/CMs aren't gonna offer much help going forward, the least they can do is defend.