Safe standing - time to act

[Sol thewall Bamba]

4 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

I don’t know why but I feel like we will be the last club to act on this. There is a number of fans who are just ever present moaners which the club are always trying to appease and safe standing is just one more thing for people to moan about. 

It's not "moaning" when the outcome would be beneficial to pretty much everyone and people's safety would be improved.

 

Imagine if we didn't have a family stand, would lobbying for the introduction of one be moaning? Of course not, it would be warranted and would benefit a lot of people. The same is true for a standing area.

[baldeagle]

2 hours ago, SemperEadem said:

Literally no fan thinks that 100% our of fans want it. 

Reading some of the comments in this thread suggests otherwise 

[KrefelderFox666]

Opposing safe standing because they want to sit is like opposing gay marriage because they are straight.

 

No one is saying the whole ground will be standing, in fact, it's likely to only account for 5-10% of the ground. If you don't want to stand, then sit in the 90% areas that are made for seating but don't prevent others from improving their matchday by being stubborn and arrogant.

 

I appreciate it might be annoying to move seats to accommodate a standing section but there is little alternative to that.

[KrefelderFox666]

Just now, baldeagle said:

Reading some of the comments in this thread suggests otherwise 

Maybe if you can't read between the lines...

 

There is undoubtedly a big demand for it, however, as posted above, people who want it know that there will be a balance between seating and standing and that safe standers will still be a minority of the ground. Look at Europe, even there, standing probably only accounts for 25-40%. No issues there with fan groups. The common British people just love a good moan and are not willing to change their habits easily.

[Blackboots only]

Make the whole of the North stand rail seating

 

As the North stand now only has 2 blocks branded as the family stand the whipper snappers can move over to the kop and clapper away,  sitting down with all cushion dwelling old farts.  

This would free up space in the now all standing North stand for the so called minority who wish to stand and create an atmosphere. 
 

[yorkie1999]

8 hours ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

Opposing safe standing because they want to sit is like opposing gay marriage because they are straight.

 

No one is saying the whole ground will be standing, in fact, it's likely to only account for 5-10% of the ground. If you don't want to stand, then sit in the 90% areas that are made for seating but don't prevent others from improving their matchday by being stubborn and arrogant.

 

I appreciate it might be annoying to move seats to accommodate a standing section but there is little alternative to that.

No ones opposed to safe standing, the fact is though there ain’t going to be two or three areas where it will be implemented. Say it’s installed in the kop, what happens to L1 and K1? They will all have to sit, so that’s the end of standing next to the away fans. It won’t be installed in L1 K1 because straight away that makes the seats next to those blocks restricted viewing, and that’s not going to happen with some of the most expensive seats at the ground is it. So what you’re saying is fans should move to where it will be installed, I sit in the kop and I ain’t moving, much like most of the fans in that stand they won’t move, they’ll just stand, thank you very much. Wouldn’t it be better just to leave it as it is and have multiple areas of the ground where you can get away with standing.

[purpleronnie]

Having read - Safe Standing Roadshow - Green light for safe standing trials

 

It seems a lot of work will be needed to meet all the criteria, I wonder how many clubs will be willing to do this?, especially large areas.  It's much easier simply to put a barrier in front of existing seats which would be a bit of a cop out.

[purpleronnie]

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Good summary on the BBC site about the new standing areas: 

 

- Seats with barriers/independent barriers - which must be in both home and away sections - had to be in place before 1 January 2022.

- The seats cannot be locked in the 'up' or 'down' position, allowing fans the option of being able to sit (for example, during breaks in play).

- There must also be one seat/space per person.

- The licensed standing areas must not impact the viewing standards or other fans, including disabled fans.

- There must be a code of conduct in place for fans in the licensed standing area.

- Briefing and training must be in place for staff and stewards to ensure only relevant ticketholders are admitted to the licensed standing areas.

- CCTV must be in place and offer full coverage of the licensed standing areas.

- The ground must consult with its safety advisory group about plans for the licensed standing areas.

 

No mention at all about anything standing related in the planning docs for the stadium redevelopment. 

[SemperEadem]

I think the last two aways show that with safe standing/rail seats that they only really work if those in them are singers. 
 

My fear is at our place if it ever came it it would be flooded with atmosphere passengers who enjoy the noise but leave the hard work to others.

The english media now reports pretty much that safe standing = amazing atmosphere. The thing is they cite examples like Celtic/Dortmund/Stuttgart and yes being stood does help however the noise at these places is made by ultras groups. 
We are not going to see ultras groups pop up up and down the land here, however there needs to be an understood agreement that you go in these sections to sing.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Rail seats in the bottom tier today yes?

[SemperEadem]

Just now, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Rail seats in the bottom tier today yes?

Yes

[purpleronnie]

2 hours ago, SemperEadem said:

I think the last two aways show that with safe standing/rail seats that they only really work if those in them are singers. 
 

My fear is at our place if it ever came it it would be flooded with atmosphere passengers who enjoy the noise but leave the hard work to others.

The english media now reports pretty much that safe standing = amazing atmosphere. The thing is they cite examples like Celtic/Dortmund/Stuttgart and yes being stood does help however the noise at these places is made by ultras groups. 
We are not going to see ultras groups pop up up and down the land here, however there needs to be an understood agreement that you go in these sections to sing.

We'd definitely dispel that myth at the walkers....safe standing won't happen at our ground anyway.

 

But you are correct, i don't think the standing areas will make much difference as most of the areas in the stadiums they will be introducing safe standing have standers there already. It's kind of odd that every country apart from ours have fan groups that dedicate themselves to creating an atmosphere, but for whatever reason English fans on the whole don't want that, and they'd just prefer to stand in silence, its weird but it's true.

 

[SemperEadem]

20 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

We'd definitely dispel that myth at the walkers....safe standing won't happen at our ground anyway.

 

But you are correct, i don't think the standing areas will make much difference as most of the areas in the stadiums they will be introducing safe standing have standers there already. It's kind of odd that every country apart from ours have fan groups that dedicate themselves to creating an atmosphere, but for whatever reason English fans on the whole don't want that, and they'd just prefer to stand in silence, its weird but it's true.

 

It is something I have no answer on either.

Also the vast majority of those groups that do stick the heads above the parapet with this take large amounts of stick and are vilified for it.

[purpleronnie]

40 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

It is something I have no answer on either.

Also the vast majority of those groups that do stick the heads above the parapet with this take large amounts of stick and are vilified for it.

Yeah me neither, these days it seems English fans prefer to be miserable and just moan (like me) but don't want to do anything to improve anything.  It's depressing but its also a little funny how our fan culture was once the envy of the world now its mercifully mocked.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

After 30 years designated standing areas are now legal again 

[purpleronnie]

I have to say I'm a little confused.  I thought after the recent announcement that safe standing would be trialled in the top division we would be getting just that.  As far as I can see (please correct me if I'm wrong) all were getting is a rail in front of existing seats which we had at some clubs already.

 

[CosbehFox]

Having been in a section at Liverpool, it’s a lot, lot safer than just plain seats. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

28 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

I have to say I'm a little confused.  I thought after the recent announcement that safe standing would be trialled in the top division we would be getting just that.  As far as I can see (please correct me if I'm wrong) all were getting is a rail in front of existing seats which we had at some clubs already.

 

Prior to today those areas could not legally be designed as "standing areas". Now they can. 

 

Chelsea and Wolves have gone for the bargain basement options, also Liverpool I think. Like you say just a bar in front of the existing seat. 

 

[09bballer]

Stood with the bar at Liverpool for the League Cup game. It felt safer than seats only to me and I'd say the 2 quick goals were a decent test. Plenty of jumping and celebrating..

Having been in the Munich stadium the rails there felt much higher from memory (few years ago) but I'm 6ft 1. Can anyone confirm from other trips to Germany?

[purpleronnie]

11 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Prior to today those areas could not legally be designed as "standing areas". Now they can. 

 

Chelsea and Wolves have gone for the bargain basement options, also Liverpool I think. Like you say just a bar in front of the existing seat. 

 

Do you know if any of the clubs trialling it are actually doing it right? rather than the half arsed version the likes of Chelsea are doing?

 

Seems odd they say they're trialling safe standing but actually aren't, so it all seems a little pointless.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 hour ago, 09bballer said:

Stood with the bar at Liverpool for the League Cup game. It felt safer than seats only to me and I'd say the 2 quick goals were a decent test. Plenty of jumping and celebrating..

Having been in the Munich stadium the rails there felt much higher from memory (few years ago) but I'm 6ft 1. Can anyone confirm from other trips to Germany?

I was at the Liverpool game as well. Some pillock in the seat next to me kept on standing in front of me (even when I was standing) - pissing me right off. Before the game I was yet to be convinced, and an more skeptical now.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

34 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Do you know if any of the clubs trialling it are actually doing it right? rather than the half arsed version the likes of Chelsea are doing?

 

Seems odd they say they're trialling safe standing but actually aren't, so it all seems a little pointless.

Not sure how you're defining that as I'd argue "doing it right" meant having seats that lock in the closed position like they do abroad, but that's not been made legal yet, they have to be able to flip down like a traditional seat.

 

Spurs I believe have a tailor made seat with a rail integrated into it, not just a cheapo metal bar. I'm not sure what the Man Utd set up is.

[davieG]

Safe standing in Premier League: 'My opinion has completely changed'

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59842679

 

For most of the past 33 years, Margaret Aspinall has been opposed to standing at football matches.

On 15 April 1989 her 18-year-old son and Liverpool fan James went through the turnstiles and on to the terraces at the Leppings Lane End at Hillsborough.

He and 96 others were killed by a crush caused by police failures, a poorly designed, regulated and maintained venue, and delays in the emergency service response.

As Chelsea prepare to host Liverpool on Sunday in the first English top-flight game in front of standing fans in almost 30 years, Aspinall is now in favour of supporters standing.

"I never believed in any form of safe standing whatsoever, but my opinion has completely changed," she told BBC Sport.

"Those who want to stand should be allowed to stand.

"Fans are treated completely differently now to what they were in the 1970s and 1980s. They are really monitored. They are more careful. They've learned lessons because of Hillsborough."

Liverpool boss Klopp to miss Chelsea game
Chelsea, Manchester United, Manchester City, Tottenham and Championship side Cardiff have been approved to trial safe standing areas during the second half of this season.

Chelsea's Premier League meeting with Liverpool at Stamford Bridge will be the first time fans will watch from standing areas since laws came into force in 1994 stipulating stadiums in the top two tiers of English football must be all-seater venues.

[Corky]

28 minutes ago, davieG said:

Safe standing in Premier League: 'My opinion has completely changed'

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59842679

 

 

Chelsea's Premier League meeting with Liverpool at Stamford Bridge will be the first time fans will watch from standing areas since laws came into force in 1994 stipulating stadiums in the top two tiers of English football must be all-seater venues.

Pedant alert- That's not correct. Sunderland in 1996/97 had terraces at Roker Park and Fulham in 2001/02 had standing areas at Craven Cottage.