Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Footballwipe]

Yeah, it's easy to just laugh at teacher's wanting decent pay and conditions, but their job really is no win. I'm sure there are teachers on here as well so they can chime in.

 

My wife is a teacher. She's relatively high in terms of responsibility. She leaves the house at half seven and comes home about six ish. Might get a bit of time before I head to bed and she works. She does this rinse and repeat. Weekends and the wonderful holidays, she's mainly working, planning, prepping, marking, scrutinising, doing admin or responding to queries from other teachers, parents etc.

 

It's a job I don't ever want to live. It's hard, emotional and you carry every day around with you. Other teachers can be great but others are like any other work environment. Trying to climb the greasy pole, plain problematic and also messaging late into the night, on weekends etc. It's never ending. You are never off shift.

 

Add that to what Foxile above about being a doormat. Behaviour is atrocious in the main. She works in multiple schools and it varies, but at some it is literally tear-inducing atrocious. (some) Parents are entitled and untrusting and you have to deal with them as well.

 

There is definite bloat in some academies and schooling. Layers and layers of management, but that's just my impression. What I can say is that there are not enough staff or resilience for the workload. The ever increasing need to meticulously plan and align everything. Imagine doing your project/workload management AND having to teach 3-4 lessons a day, contact parents, do a break/dinner/bus duty, run a detention, line manage and deal with kids from 3-4 separate schools.

 

It's a bit similar to the NHS really. You get what you pay for, and if you don't pay for the decent teachers they will just walk away. Some will realise early on, some will just say eff it. It means you get a dwindling talent pool doing teacher training, which in turn sees failure and leaving rates high because these people can't hack it or aren't good enough. I'd also argue it's quite important for teachers (like a lot of sectors) to have decent pensions, too, because I'm not sure I'd want a 78 year old having to teach my kid due to them not being able to afford retirement.

 

So when some teachers have had enough and want to strike, that's what they're going to do and they're free to do it. But let me be clear, this is not *every* teacher by any means. Some teachers will still go to work on those striking days, or work from home, or continue as normal. Parents may espouse why there is no one to "look after their kids" (actual quote I heard when they last went on strike eight years ago) but people need to make a point and how else are you going to make it?

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

It's a decade of well under inflation real-terms pay cuts that is factored into the wage negotiations. Using the word 'demand' is loaded and designed to paint the profession poorly.

 

Teachers are Masters Level professionals (2 periods of University Bachelors and PGCE with M-level units) that are routinely treated like doormats by students and parents. Not to mention as some kind of political football for opposition and government. I'd love to know what other profession requires such level of expertise and receives such scorn from the public. I'd love to know what other profession requires that AT ENTRY LEVEL and is expected to stand relentless media and public insults.

 

I'm obviously never going to change your mind - people who like to stick the boot in on teaching will never change that mindset - but it's such a shame that our education system is widely derided. Having worked in education systems across the world it's amazing to me how thankless and condescending the British public are towards theirs. 

 

Teachers, eh, what bastardos trying to educate kids and improve the society a little bit. 

 

I've said my piece on this and won't be saying any more. 

 

13 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

 

Any loss in pay (real terms) would have been growing year on year, so nothing sudden about it.

 

Other reasons they are leaving the profession?

We joke the hours are short and holidays long but it is anything but. I now have an insight as my son in law is a teacher.

He arrives at school a little after 7:30 and often finishes after 17:00.

He then often does work at home in the evenings and weekends.

He was also in school several times over the summer break and other holidays, preparing for his new class and term.

 

Finally, the attriction rate amongst newly qualified teachers like him, is horrendously high.

He has now left his first school. One of the reasons being that there was just him, one teaching assistant and 30 pupils and over a third of those children struggled with English language.

 

No wonder really......

Having spent a couple of years in the tender arms of the UK education staff system, I can safely say that it would take a very, very generous offer both financially and in terms of conditions to even think about taking it up again and I am in no way surprised that decent professionals are either leaving en masse or won't touch the idea with a barge-pole.

[Fox92]

47 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Suddenly not paid enough apparently....

Not every strike is about pay though. Conditions and job security come into it too. Same with the rail staff, the government already spoke months ago about staff being made redundant.

[Manley Farrington-Brown]

Teaching, eh?

 

Imagine having a full-time office job. Not too bad?

Now imagine that as well as fitting in your full-time office job you have to spend 5 hours or more, Monday-Friday giving a semi-improvised live performance. And you have to make sure that every single member of your audience (many of whom would rather be doing something else) is always interested and always learning something. Your boss will pop in regularly to check this is happening.

Now also imagine you are held accountable for every child you teach making a certain amount of progress, even though some of the children you teach will be simply unable to make that progress.

The holidays are good, although not as good as you might think, as a lot of your full time office job continues all year round. And the pay reflects the good holidays, so you ain't going to get rich.

You'll be at work from at least eight in the morning to five or six at night, and you'll have to do a couple of days worth of work at home. So if you have kids of your own, you won't see much of them. But you will be around for their holidays, so that's a plus.

[Parafox]

9 hours ago, SkidsFox said:

I still get the words wrong...

 

6 hours ago, Daggers said:

How?

 

 

He's still singing "our gracious queen".

 

He needs to move on.

 

She's gone, mate. Gone.

[Parafox]

21 hours ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

Omelette are always made up with leftovers from the fridge, always cook mushrooms and peppers on the foreman while cooking the omelette.

 

Microwave scrambled eggs are nasty, pan all the way.

 

Is this some weird building site/factory ritual?

[Parafox]

6 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Teachers striking over completely unreasonable wage demand increases - laughable 

 

 

5 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Suddenly not paid enough apparently....

Ignorant is the only unbannable word I can use to describe these posts.

 

Oh, and simple of mind. It seems you were under-educated by your teachers, maybe? Or maybe you didn't really engage with education and now you struggle with facts and the real world?

[Unabomber]

6 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Suddenly not paid enough apparently....

Very naive post that having read the replies 

[Aus Fox]

Why is it when any profession goes on strike/ threatens to go on strike the media focus is on the pay?

Yes pay is one of the issues, but rarely the only or the biggest issue in any industry.

There is a clear agenda to make the workers sound greedy, selfish and ungrateful for daring to speak about the conditions they work in. This is deliberately done to make the employers look strong and keep the workers down.

It is the same globally and in every industry and people still buy it when it’s thrown up in the media - teachers, nurses, rail workers, paramedics, police officers, fire fighters… the list goes on all selfish pricks in the media… 

Or all people trying to do their best in pretty shite conditions and wanting better health, wellbeing, education and public services for the general population- who then turn on them at the drop of a hat.

[grobyfox1990]

13 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Why is it when any profession goes on strike/ threatens to go on strike the media focus is on the pay?

Yes pay is one of the issues, but rarely the only or the biggest issue in any industry.

There is a clear agenda to make the workers sound greedy, selfish and ungrateful for daring to speak about the conditions they work in. This is deliberately done to make the employers look strong and keep the workers down.

It is the same globally and in every industry and people still buy it when it’s thrown up in the media - teachers, nurses, rail workers, paramedics, police officers, fire fighters… the list goes on all selfish pricks in the media… 

Or all people trying to do their best in pretty shite conditions and wanting better health, wellbeing, education and public services for the general population- who then turn on them at the drop of a hat.

Mate lol, welcome to the media. Do you really think all immigrants are taking our jobs, Qatar is a backward hellhole where gays get flogged in the street, all tories are evil, all football fans are thugs, all Americans are fat etc etc. of course not, the media paint a picture for you to buy into. None of this is new or surprising 

[tom27111]

8 hours ago, ealingfox said:

Jerusalem should be the sporting anthem for all England teams.

Incorrect.

 

Land Of Hope And Glory is the only acceptable English National Anthem

 

Patriotic and rousing.

[Foxdiamond]

51 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Why is it when any profession goes on strike/ threatens to go on strike the media focus is on the pay?

Yes pay is one of the issues, but rarely the only or the biggest issue in any industry.

There is a clear agenda to make the workers sound greedy, selfish and ungrateful for daring to speak about the conditions they work in. This is deliberately done to make the employers look strong and keep the workers down.

It is the same globally and in every industry and people still buy it when it’s thrown up in the media - teachers, nurses, rail workers, paramedics, police officers, fire fighters… the list goes on all selfish pricks in the media… 

Or all people trying to do their best in pretty shite conditions and wanting better health, wellbeing, education and public services for the general population- who then turn on them at the drop of a hat.

 Good post  Divide and rule still lives. Stinks

[tom27111]

1 hour ago, Aus Fox said:

Why is it when any profession goes on strike/ threatens to go on strike the media focus is on the pay?

Yes pay is one of the issues, but rarely the only or the biggest issue in any industry.

There is a clear agenda to make the workers sound greedy, selfish and ungrateful for daring to speak about the conditions they work in. This is deliberately done to make the employers look strong and keep the workers down.

It is the same globally and in every industry and people still buy it when it’s thrown up in the media - teachers, nurses, rail workers, paramedics, police officers, fire fighters… the list goes on all selfish pricks in the media… 

Or all people trying to do their best in pretty shite conditions and wanting better health, wellbeing, education and public services for the general population- who then turn on them at the drop of a hat.

 

On the other hand, there are millions of people who work in professions that don't have the capability of striking.

 

Don't you think they want/deserve better pay and working conditions?

 

The vast majority of people in the country need more money due to the cost of living.

 

If the industries that are going on strike piss off the rest of the public, they are seriously risking alienating themselves and not getting public support.

 

 

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, tom27111 said:

 

On the other hand, there are millions of people who work in professions that don't have the capability of striking.

 

Don't you think they want/deserve better pay and working conditions?

 

The vast majority of people in the country need more money due to the cost of living.

 

If the industries that are going on strike piss off the rest of the public, they are seriously risking alienating themselves and not getting public support.

 

 

That some cannot strike is not the fault of those that can. I very much doubt most of the workers want to strike. As mentioned before guard against divide and rule.

[Charl91]

Been teaching for 8 years now. When people ask me about getting into teaching, I tell them not to bother. 

 

I think most points have been well made earlier on in this thread. The point I always like to make is, if its such an easy, well paid job, why is teaching not over subscribed? Seems to go against all the market principles that the people I have these discussions with are usually so fond of. 

 

Also I think this chart is quite telling. 

 

 

Edited 2 December 2022 by Charl91

[kingkisnorbo]

Players nicknames or abbreviations get my goat badly. Not just our players either. 
 

Something really irks me whenever I read “Madders”,”Vards” or “Cags”. 

[kingkisnorbo]

Probably get a dinging in here for saying this but I think the Welsh anthem is terrific. 

[ozleicester]

30 years of neocapitalism destroying people for profit, is about to come to an end... pay decent wages or lose staff

PEOPLE BEFORE PROFIT

[Tommy G]

12 hours ago, Parafox said:

 

 

Ignorant is the only unbannable word I can use to describe these posts.

 

Oh, and simple of mind. It seems you were under-educated by your teachers, maybe? Or maybe you didn't really engage with education and now you struggle with facts and the real world?

Yes that’s exactly the reason! I completely struggled with Education and struggle with facts and the real world. How naive is that despite knowing anything about me? 
 

My original point was a throwaway comment and yes I probably haven’t done my in depth research on historical pay rises for teachers and working conditions etc etc. I just feel there is a lot in the press about how teachers are so hard done to - there are plenty of public and private sector jobs where people “work hard” or over and above in some pretty bad conditions for pay that seems unfair - that’s life and isn’t exclusive to teaching. Some of those jobs people will have to work 10 years on average more than a teacher or through the night, have crap holidays or pensions etc. 

 

Ive never worked in the public sector and has no interest, but carved a successful career away from there - in life you have to graft, work hard get a lucky break now and again and be a people person to be successful. 
 

You can sit and whinge about any situation in life or otherwise, it won’t get you anywhere 

 

 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Yes that’s exactly the reason! I completely struggled with Education and struggle with facts and the real world. How naive is that despite knowing anything about me? 
 

My original point was a throwaway comment and yes I probably haven’t done my in depth research on historical pay rises for teachers and working conditions etc etc. I just feel there is a lot in the press about how teachers are so hard done to - there are plenty of public and private sector jobs where people “work hard” or over and above in some pretty bad conditions for pay that seems unfair - that’s life and isn’t exclusive to teaching. Some of those jobs people will have to work 10 years on average more than a teacher or through the night, have crap holidays or pensions etc. 

 

Ive never worked in the public sector and has no interest, but carved a successful career away from there - in life you have to graft, work hard get a lucky break now and again and be a people person to be successful. 
 

You can sit and whinge about any situation in life or otherwise, it won’t get you anywhere 

 

 

Unless you work to and successfully change the system.

[Charl91]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

 

 

You can sit and whinge about any situation in life or otherwise, it won’t get you anywhere 

 

 

And yet, there are some people who have decided that instead of just complaining about their situation, they're going to take action to change their circumstances...

 

....and you've decided to sit and whinge about them.

 

Ironic, really. 

[Tommy Fresh]

11 hours ago, tom27111 said:

Incorrect.

 

Land Of Hope And Glory is the only acceptable English National Anthem

 

Patriotic and rousing.

Any song that references the Empire probably isn't the most inclusive song for modern day Britain.

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

Yes that’s exactly the reason! I completely struggled with Education and struggle with facts and the real world. How naive is that despite knowing anything about me? 
 

My original point was a throwaway comment and yes I probably haven’t done my in depth research on historical pay rises for teachers and working conditions etc etc.

Pretty funny, others can't comment without knowing the detail but you can make comments without knowing the facts.

Edited 2 December 2022 by Tommy Fresh

[ozleicester]

[BenTheFox]

20 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Teachers striking over completely unreasonable wage demand increases - laughable 

Fair play, you have expressed an opinion that is truly in the spirit of the thread. 

 

My girlfriend is teacher and she leaves the house at 7:00 every morning and gets back at around 18:00 and then has 2/3 hours worth or marking or preparation to do having had a day of being sworn at or even spat at on occasion by students who really don't want to be there. I certainly wouldn't fancy it. The only thing about the job that would appeal to me is the holidays.