Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Finnegan]

 

Alf I love you, I'm a really big fan of yours, probably more than you appreciate but that's a seriously long and wordy post just to essentially conclude you're still salty about a throw away remark I made a few weeks ago. I'm not sure poor @bovril needed tarring with my brush either.

 

So let me put your mind at ease by explaining (equally wordily) a little better my stance on "fat old men" and Danny Drinkwater:

 

As I conceded at the time, the fat comment wasn't necessary but I was essentially referring to a stereotypical breed of extremely hyper critical armchair "fans" that have to constantly be passing ridiculously harsh judgment and actually mocking what are clearly high achieving pros. 

 

The stacks of Liverpool fans that, for example, pick apart every detail of Raheem Sterling's career, sneering jealously at every poor performance he makes to get pleasure from it. 

 

And we have them here, particularly they've taken serious glee in the fact that Riyad and Drinky have struggled to find game time at Chelsea and Man City. 

 

What I meant by achievement in this context was something genuinely extraordinary. It was less a judgment on those critics especially and more an observation that really none of us compare. Of course I don't think I've particularly "achieved" anything on that level. These are men that are literally in the top 0.000001% of people in the world at playing professional football, anyone that's ever had a major hand in a Premier League title is by default one of the best EVER human beings who have ever lived at playing football. That's really quite incredible. 

 

We devalue that a lot because it feels so normalised from our position on the sofa. And it's not that I don't think any supporter has the right to criticise a pro footballer, clearly we do, anyone can be a critic, anyone can have an opinion. 

 

It just angers me to see people criticise Drinkwater specifically for having had ambition and drive to go and try and seek out improvement and more success at Chelsea. That's where the stereotype of the fat old lazy armchair critic becomes relevant because you're talking about people that often never really wanted or bothered to have more from their lives and yet they're sneering at someone that tried. Who cares if he failed? He gave it a go. 

 

It's the same mentality of people that sit in their cars laughing at unfit people struggling to run or cycle, even though they're lapping everyone sat at home. 

 

Drinkwater can not kick a ball all season and still be living closer to most of our dreams than we ever will. So what are we laughing for? 

 

I didn't name any names when I made the comment and if I had I definitely wouldn't have mentioned yours, you've never struck me as someone that ever makes a habit of laughing at the misfortune of others, footballer or otherwise, which is a part of why I admire you. You come across as a much kinder soul than I am. 

 

So why that comment seemed to resonate with you and haunt you as much as it has I don't know, Alf. I hope its not because you feel you've underachieved with your life because making you feel that way was certainly not my aim. 

Edited 10 May 2019 by Finnegan

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

And yet you regularly complain about your posts being limited..

I'm sure you mention it more than me Wymsey - and I have you on ignore. I realise that we are never going to agree on anything. We are nothing alike and have completely different views on practically everything. I do wish you'd get over the fact that I called you out for your homophobic comments or at least not try to stir things all the time. I'd have thought the intelligent thing to do would be to put me on ignore - but then as I said we are really completely different people with completely different ideas and views.

 

 

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Could you expand on that?  I ask out of curiosity, not hostility - despite being part of the "target demographic" (phrase borrowed from teenage daughter). 

 

The stereotypical midlife crisis is a bit sad, I grant you. But my main complaint about my fellow middle-aged men is that so many of them become boring, small-c conservative and lacking in dynamism.

Give me the weirdos any day!

 

Maybe some older gits also turn weird because they feel trapped by circumstances (marriage, children, career, mortgage, whatever)?

 

 

 

There's definitely something in this, Mac, though I'd relate more to "recognition of mortality" than "fear of mortality", and to "achievement" not "legacy".

But if you recognise that the time you have left is limited, and time left in a good state even more limited, it's reasonable to think more about purpose, achievement or legacy, isn't it?

 

If you're 30 or whatever, on a rational level you know that your time is limited, but it still seems a vast enough chunk of future that you don't need to think too hard about it. It feels different at 56.

I'd like to think that I have a healthy respect for the ultimate meaninglessness of life, which protects me against "fear of mortality" or grandiose ideas of "legacy". I see life more as a fantastic joke, to be enjoyed and savoured to the max.

Even so, I do find myself asking, in a way I didn't at 30, whether I should see any purpose to my life, what I have achieved and what I could still achieve with whatever time is left.

A couple of weeks ago, Finners commented on "aging men who've achieved nothing in life" (or similar), I almost started a thread about "Achievement" and might still do so: what is achievement? what have you achieved? what do you hope to achieve etc.?

 

But even weirder than middle-aged men becoming weird or (more commonly) achieving the inertia of suet puddings, is what seems to happen to some intelligent, articulate blokes in their 30s. These blokes get critical of middle-aged or aging men, in the apparent belief that they could never become middle-aged or old or under-achieving themselves.....and it's usually the intelligent ones who harbour this miscomprehension.

 

I'm not talking about you here, Z-layrex or Mac. It's more the likes of @bovril and @Finnegan that I have in mind (in the nicest possible way)......top quality posters, but afflicted by a self-perception as inevitably high-achieving Peter Pans??  

Mind you, Bovril does seem to have taken a lot of outstanding photos, traveled widely across southern/eastern Europe and accumulated a fair bit of knowledge in the process - so I would view that as high-achieving. 

Great post Alf.

 

There are certain "younger" posters who seem to believe that they are 100% right and have that youthful superiority that age can give you. eventually they'll get old (well most of them) and realise that they weren't the intellectual superheroes they thought they were. I was one of them and know how it goes. 

 

Acheivement? One's man's achievement is another man's folly in my opinion. It would make a good thread though. Similar thought patterns to the "what's the point" thread I started recently.

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Alf I love you, I'm a really big fan of yours, probably more than you appreciate but that's a seriously long and wordy post just to essentially conclude you're still salty about a throw away remark I made a few weeks ago. I'm not sure poor @bovril needed tarring with my brush either.

 

So let me put your mind at ease by explaining (equally wordily) a little better my stance on "fat old men" and Danny Drinkwater:

 

As I conceded at the time, the fat comment wasn't necessary but I was essentially referring to a stereotypical breed of extremely hyper critical armchair "fans" that have to constantly be passing ridiculously harsh judgment and actually mocking what are clearly high achieving pros. 

 

The stacks of Liverpool fans that, for example, pick apart every detail of Raheem Sterling's career, sneering jealously at every poor performance he makes to get pleasure from it. 

 

And we have them here, particularly they've taken serious glee in the fact that Riyad and Drinky have struggled to find game time at Chelsea and Man City. 

 

What I meant by achievement in this context was something genuinely extraordinary. It was less a judgment on those critics especially and more an observation that really none of us compare. Of course I don't think I've particularly "achieved" anything on that level. These are men that are literally in the top 0.000001% of people in the world at playing professional football, anyone that's ever had a major hand in a Premier League title is by default one of the best EVER human beings who have ever lived at playing football. That's really quite incredible. 

 

We devalue that a lot because it feels so normalised from our position on the sofa. And it's not that I don't think any supporter has the right to criticise a pro footballer, clearly we do, anyone can be a critic, anyone can have an opinion. 

 

It just angers me to see people criticise Drinkwater specifically for having had ambition and drive to go and try and seek out improvement and more success at Chelsea. That's where the stereotype of the fat old lazy armchair critic becomes relevant because you're talking about people that often never really wanted or bothered to have more from their lives and yet they're sneering at someone that tried. Who cares if he failed? He gave it a go. 

 

It's the same mentality of people that sit in their cars laughing at unfit people struggling to run or cycle, even though they're lapping everyone sat at home. 

 

Drinkwater can not kick a ball all season and still be living closer to most of our dreams than we ever will. So what are we laughing for? 

 

I didn't name any names when I made the comment and if I had I definitely wouldn't have mentioned yours, you've never struck me as someone that ever makes a habit of laughing at the misfortune of others, footballer or otherwise, which is a part of why I admire you. You come across as a much kinder soul than I am. 

 

So why that comment seemed to resonate with you and haunt you as much as it has I don't know, Alf. I hope its not because you feel you've underachieved with your life because making you feel that way was certainly not my aim. 

 

Thanks - and reciprocated. You are very much among the FT posters that I most appreciate and enjoy (often agree with, sometimes don't) - as is @bovril.

 

I completely agree with all you say about armchair fans (of any age, physique or achievement level) sneering at Drinky or whoever: they just make themselves ridiculous. So that's covered the bulk of your post!

 

But you're misinterpreting me. I'm genuinely not "salty" in the slightest about your previous comment. I didn't take it personally, didn't really register the "fat" comment, am quite at ease about my stage of life and neither bitter nor miserable at not having achieved more. I'll do my threatened thread about achievement over the coming days (busy tonight) as it's something that I was pondering long before your post - what have I done of value in life? What could I still do? etc.

 

Your original post just amused me and mystified me (the "old, never-achieved anything" bit, not the "fat" bit), as you're clearly an intelligent chap. As I see it, by definition, 99.99% of people never achieve anything exceptional, but most achieve a few more mundane things that they can look back on and be proud of. Likewise, having a pop at people for getting old(er) seems a bit bizarre, unless you plan to top yourself at 40 (please don't! I'd miss you, even if nobody else would! ).

 

I dragged Bovril in because I think he's made a similar comment about middle-aged men, though I may be wrong about that. It may just be that he repped your post a few weeks back and the one from x-layrex about middle-aged men going weird.

I wanted to provoke him - and you - as posters I rate highly, to explain your feelings about "fat old men who've never achieved anything" "going weird". I was curious, though, not "salty" (newish yoof word to me). You've explained yourself, but he's copped out with a joke about Penny Mordaunt so far.....so I hope he'll share his thoughts on aging and achievement when I get my thread up.

 

Btw. I'm probably not as kind a soul as you think. Well, I am deep down, but teenage years taught me that you just get kicked about if you're too nice, so decades ago I developed a decent ability at nastiness, to be applied only when necessary (verbals and manipulation, not fisticuffs - I couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag!).

No, nothing you said haunted me or bothered me at all - and it resonated only in that I was curious about your comment and was already pondering the concept of "achievement".

In some ways I've under-achieved in life, but in other ways I haven't....and, anyway, I work from the assumption that almost everybody under-achieves in life and very, very few achieve anything exceptional or truly longlasting (Drinky & Mahrez being exceptions). I'm quite at ease with what I have and haven't achieved - and might still achieve a few things yet.

 

Anyway, I'll save the rest for my "achievement" thread.....it'll be a crowd-pleasing thriller, I tell you!  

Edited 10 May 2019 by Alf Bentley

[Dr The Singh]

I hate these long posts on this forum, totally waste of time

Edited 10 May 2019 by Dr The Singh

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dr The Singh said:

I hate these long posts on this forum, totally waste of time

 

don't you achieve getting to the end of them? 

[Dr The Singh]

2 minutes ago, FIF said:

 

don't you achieve getting to the end of them? 

Exactly, attention span last only about 20 seconds 

[Buce]

4 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

I hate these long posts on this forum, totally waste of time

 

Try reading them without moving your lips - that should speed it up a bit...

[Wymsey]

11 minutes ago, FIF said:

I do wish you'd at least not try to stir things all the time.

To be honest - oh, the irony..

You seem to blame me for this aspect, yet others have pointed out/accused you of doing the same in the past.

 

I do actually wish we'd get on better as you can post some good and useful points at times but, as you mention, our different opinions and viewpoints are in the way of this from happening.

I admittedly made a big error of misjudgement that you highlight to me whenever you can, and still regret to this day, but everyone makes mistakes and it's about me now trying to be more mindful of it and respecting others from now on to anything.

 

Have no one on my ignore on here now, as had decided to not to respond etc to posters that are trolling and the like and just let the posts flow.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Dr The Singh said:

Exactly, attention span last only about 20 seconds 

 

Twice as long as your shagging then?

[ozleicester]

5 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Point of pedantry:

 

If they are 'undiscovered', how do you know of their existence?

Email... duh!

[bovril]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I dragged Bovril in because I think he's made a similar comment about middle-aged men, though I may be wrong about that. It may just be that he repped your post a few weeks back and the one from x-layrex about middle-aged men going weird.

I wanted to provoke him - and you - as posters I rate highly, to explain your feelings about "fat old men who've never achieved anything" "going weird". I was curious, though, not "salty" (newish yoof word to me). You've explained yourself, but he's copped out with a joke about Penny Mordaunt so far.....so I hope he'll share his thoughts on aging and achievement when I get my thread up.

 

I did think you were referring to a post I made about hoping I never reach the age when I start fancying 'middle aged totty' like Penny Mourdant. I can't remember the post from Finnegan I repped. I don't really think that carefully about posts I rep, same with Z Layrex. It's the Unpopular Opinions Thread, most of the posts are pretty uncontroversial and I like a bit of foxestalk aggro (egging you lot on from a distance, obviously). I don't think I'm a particularly high-achiever, apart from starting the Unpopular Opinions Thread.

 

[Alf Bentley]

3 hours ago, bovril said:

I did think you were referring to a post I made about hoping I never reach the age when I start fancying 'middle aged totty' like Penny Mourdant. I can't remember the post from Finnegan I repped. I don't really think that carefully about posts I rep, same with Z Layrex. It's the Unpopular Opinions Thread, most of the posts are pretty uncontroversial and I like a bit of foxestalk aggro (egging you lot on from a distance, obviously). I don't think I'm a particularly high-achiever, apart from starting the Unpopular Opinions Thread.

 

 

I'm sure you're right about your Mordaunt comment. My memory isn't what it used to be at my advanced age. Fancying images of strangers on a screen doesn't cover anyone with glory, but most of us do it, I think, and I reckon it's more acceptable for me, as an old git, to be lusting after "middle-aged totty" (Mordaunt is actually 10 years younger than me) than after 20-year-olds. Do you expect to be fancying women young enough to be your daughter in 25 years time, you dirty old man?! 

 

I should stress that none of my comments on this are meant very seriously - and I'm not taking yours too seriously either. I share your liking for (benign) aggro as a FT pastime.

 

Maybe I was a bit OTT with my "high-achieving" compliment, but travelling widely and apparently gaining a fairly good knowledge of the history and culture of countries that most Brits don't know is an achievement to be proud of, as is taking good photographs. Not something to view as truly exceptional or to get swell-headed about, but quiet satisfaction at time well spent is in order. Anyway, I'll save any more comment for my soon-to-be-launched Achievement thread.....which absolutely won't be as great an achievement as your Unpopular Opinions thread. 

 

Edited 10 May 2019 by Alf Bentley

[Stadt]

I like cheating in sport, love it when Vardy manufactures a shithouse pen 

[Buce]

 

Not sure this is unpopular or not but I think Gareth Bale is contemptible for his stance at Real.

 

He would rather rot in the reserves for the remainder of his career on his £600,000 a week than actually play football elsewhere for slightly less. How much money does he need?

Edited 15 May 2019 by Buce

[Jattdogg]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Not sure this is unpopular or not but I think Gareth Bale is contemptible for his stance at Real.

 

He would rather rot in the reserves for the remainder of his career on his £600,000 a week than actually play football elsewhere for slightly less. How much money does he need?

Apparently £600,000 a week. 

 

At least he may be saying its all about the money rather than BS'ing.

 

Or he really feels like he can win a starting spot. I dont blame him for real being stupid enough to pay him big money.

[Buce]

43 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Apparently £600,000 a week. 

 

At least he may be saying its all about the money rather than BS'ing.

 

Or he really feels like he can win a starting spot. I dont blame him for real being stupid enough to pay him big money.

 

He’s been there a good few years now on £30 million a year. He is already a very wealthy man. 

 

He’s been told he’s not wanted and will train with the kids. Where is the man’s pride?

[The Horse's Mouth]

7 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Not sure this is unpopular or not but I think Gareth Bale is contemptible for his stance at Real.

 

He would rather rot in the reserves for the remainder of his career on his £600,000 a week than actually play football elsewhere for slightly less. How much money does he need?

how's that contemptible, he signed a contract and is entitled to that money. I doubt you'd be like, "nah i don't need this 600k a week"

[Buce]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

how's that contemptible, he signed a contract and is entitled to that money. I doubt you'd be like, "nah i don't need this 600k a week"

 

If I was a professional footballer with hundreds of millions in the bank? Of course I would. He could be playing football every week and still be being paid more in a month than most people will see in a lifetime; instead he wastes his talent sitting on his arse for money he doesn't need. He has no pride.

[Stadt]

Bale is a willy puller, not even due to his wage/not playing its cos he’s not been arsed to learn anything more than basic Spanish in his time at Real. Plus he’s Welsh.

[The Horse's Mouth]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

If I was a professional footballer with hundreds of millions in the bank? Of course I would. He could be playing football every week and still be being paid more in a month than most people will see in a lifetime; instead he wastes his talent sitting on his arse for money he doesn't need. He has no pride.

That's utter bollocks, the career of a footballer is a short one and he's been guaranteed a ridiculous amount of wealth, plus this is a footballer that has had a career of injuries and has peaked as a footballer as well. He's also been treated like shit by Madrid for the majority of his time there, why should he do them a favour? He's signed a contract and he's simply abiding by it, if he refused to play then fair enough, I'd agree with you but it's Madrid who refuse to utilise him, that's not his fault.

[Finnegan]

16 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Bale is a willy puller, not even due to his wage/not playing its cos he’s not been arsed to learn anything more than basic Spanish in his time at Real. Plus he’s Welsh.

 

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2018/09/06/opinion-the-british-are-failing-to-integrate-in-spain/

 

It's the British way. 

[Samilktray]

I would honestly prefer to be paid 600k a week not to play football. 

 

Some people on here really are weird aren’t they, who the hell is gonna give up 600k a week. Beggars belief 

[ScouseFox]

600k a week, unlimited golf in the sunshine and as much tapas as you want. doubt he even wants to play football. 

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

I would honestly prefer to be paid 600k a week not to play football. 

 

Some people on here really are weird aren’t they, who the hell is gonna give up 600k a week. Beggars belief 

 

There is more to life than money, particularly when you already have more than you can ever spend.

 

If you don't get that, I feel truly sorry for you.

[Xen]

56 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

If I was a professional footballer with hundreds of millions in the bank? Of course I would. He could be playing football every week and still be being paid more in a month than most people will see in a lifetime; instead he wastes his talent sitting on his arse for money he doesn't need. He has no pride.

He is playing football every week, in the low-pressure environment of training. Sure, its not competitive, but he's already won a ton and maybe he just doesn't care anymore? £600k to have a kickabout and go to the gym a few times a week whilst living in Madrid may well be enough to keep him satisfied.

 

As for the national side, there's no major incentive as they aren't likely to challenge for honours anytime soon, and it's not like he's going to get dropped anyway even if he's not playing.

 

Or he may even be like his old Tottenham mate Danny Rose and not even like football anymore.  If so, he could walk away from it now and retire, but when you've got a multi-year contract earning £600k/wk with minimal effort it'd be stupid to just walk away from that.