Guest Col city fan Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Just thought I'd start this thread, as I'm intrigued as to why large parts of the forum appear to have very quickly become very anti Shakespeare. As far as I can see, Shakey tends to get his players playing football a lot like Pearson did. Two banks of four, keep the shape, keep it solid, don't do anything too dramatic, defend first etc. I think I can see lots of Pearsonesque tactics, in Shakespeare. Nigel had an awful lot of patience from an awful lot of this forum. And this was despite leading the club to its longest run without winning (I believe?), in our history. Yet, on the night he was supposedly sacked, then reinstated, there were fellas on here literally stating they had been in tears when they heard of the sacking. Why did Pearson get time, patience and love, from many, yet Shakey gets 'one more game, lose it and he can go'? Why the difference?
Guest kristianity77 Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Easy. Pearson earned the time. We walked league one with him. That earned him patience. We played good football in the championship for the majority of the time under him, this helped the fans patience. We played well in our first season in the Prem despite not getting the rewards until the last ten games of the season. This helped his cause. Shakey, 5 or 6 games aside after Ranieri left (which could be nothing more than new manager bounce for all we know), has done nothing.
Charl91 Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Nigel had a proven track record as a manager, was in the job on merit and had won us back-to-back promotions. We also played better, had spent a lot less money on players (our squad was noticeably worse - we still had Konchesky!!), and had only just got promoted. We were underdogs that year, finishing in 17th would've been good. Nigel had shown he could build a strong team, even if he did make mistakes. Shakespeare has no credentials as a manager, has better players than Pearson did, and has shown no evidence that he can progress the team. Top ten should be the minimum we should expect this year, and there's no evidence to suggest that we're anywhere near a top 10 team.
Fox92 Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 The football was a bit better - we were trying to win games, and more often than not, in games. Our style of play under Shakespeare is horrific, we set up to contain teams rather than win, and we constantly go backwards and sideways. It is not exciting to watch at all.... I know exactly how we'll line up on Monday night because Shakespeare doesn't seem to change it. He seems scared to lose - we should be going at teams - we've got Gray and Mahrez who both should be playing yet he'll stick with Albrighton who offers very little going forward. He'll be happy trying to stop West Brom (or whoever we'll be playing) to score instead of getting the ball down and attacking ourselves. Also, it's difficult to compare because we were newly promoted then. Having spent a few seasons in the league, I expect us to be a lot better than we currently are. People will say "oh take a look at our recruitment team" but they don't pick the team or tell the team how to play or make stupid substitutions constantly.
Matt Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Listen I don't think Shakespeare is the right man for the job, however he is working with his hands tied, a few people need to go before him. It's too easy to blame the manager, the recruitment team and/or negotiators need to be looked at, there needs to be an internal enquiry as to why we're failing so badly in that area.
Tielemans63 Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 It's a fair question but I think for a me it's a question of Pearson being the right man at the right time for where we were when we were in League 1 and then in the Championship. Even when results weren't great it was still clear that we were moving forward as a club. To be fair, he probably had taken the club as far as he could after the great escape. Whereas NP was the right man at the right time (Imho) Shakey is the wrong man at the wrong time (Again, my opinion). We've moved on and have (did have?) a chance to move on to a new level and I don't think Shakey is the man to do that. To be clear, I don't think NP is the man for right now either. I massively respect him but that ship has sailed.
Kitchandro Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 I whole heartedly agree (in other words there is no good answer to your question). Pearson got a lot of love (and rightfully so tbf) for everything he did for us until October 2014. After that he lost the plot and regressed to the same football we're seeing now from Shakespeare. Reactive, dull, losing football. Anyone who thinks we played better in those 6 months we were bottom than we are now is deluded. Fortunately, Pearson seemed to take advice from other influences in the nick of time to prevent relegation. But the fact it took him until it did for him to listen to that advice, or for the penny to drop if you prefer, showed he wasn't up to it at this level. As I keep saying, there are too many youngsters who only saw crap before Pearson and therefore are unable to be objective when judging him as a manager. The evidence suggests he is a great Championship manager who was tactically inferior in the Premier League, largely because he didn't have the balls to try and score goals.
AyewJoking Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 pearson ran out of time with his failing tactics and the shít or bust tactics adopted led to the greatest escape of all time. shakespeare is in charge in a climate where much more than scrappy survival is expected. he probably got the job based on the determination the players showed when he first took over from ranieri but that determination is no longer present. shakespeare needs more time i agree but he is showing no signs of learning and rightly or wrongly he will lose his job if he cant get the team moving forward again.
Kitchandro Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 10 minutes ago, Fox92 said: The football was a bit better - we were trying to win games, and more often than not, in games. In the Premiership? No, not true at all. That's simply incorrect. We weren't trying to win games, please go back through the fixture list that season and jog your memory. After the Crystal Palace away defeat until the Tottenham away defeat about 90% of matches were like they are now, worse in fact.
Guest Danny Clender Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 I'd say the lessons learnt from the Ranieri situation and decision timeframe last year.
Fox92 Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 3 minutes ago, Kitchandro said: In the Premiership? No, not true at all. That's simply incorrect. We weren't trying to win games, please go back through the fixture list that season and jog your memory. After the Crystal Palace away defeat until the Tottenham away defeat about 90% of matches were like they are now, worse in fact. We were in a lot of games / very unlucky in some.... Spurs home, Spurs away, Liverpool away.... And, I agree, we were shit in some too (Stoke home, Palace away, Palace home...) but at least we looked like doing something at times.
nnfox Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Us fans have much higher expectations of what is still largely a title winning squad. The expectation when Nige was here was that we were going to have a long, hard season. Not now though.
nnfox Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 And also, even though we were losing, we always gave the opposition a game and never got battered. We were always in the game.
ARTY_FOX Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 We're playing awful awful football. He makes astoundingly poor decisions every game and he sets us up for 'damage limitations' from the word go. In fact Chelsea first half was very good. But he surrendered the second they went one up and we had been very much in the game.
Corky Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Pearson had a record of turning a rough situation around in previous seasons. Shakespeare doesn't have that. That isn't his fault, of course, but we've got nothing to judge him against from before. Can't get rid of the feeling we took the easy option and it won't work. I do hope I'm wrong and we improve this season and sit comfortably in mid-table but even that looks a way away at the moment.
Stadt Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Coming back into the top flight Pearson had guided us into our best position for 10 years and I had every faith that he'd get us promoted again even if we were to be relegated. We were very rarely outplayed and with some positive variance a lot of those 2-1 losses would have been wins because most games we lost were reasonably balanced. Currently we're playing worse football with a significantly better (as well as a ridiculously expensive) squad and relegation would be a catastrophic disaster for the club as we don't have the same ambitions as under NP nor the same infrastructure that meant we were heading in the right direction in the long term.
weller54 Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Shakey is doing his Managerial Apprenticeship in the PL!... He should be doing this in league one or two!... It's a bonkers situation that will only end in tears all round!
yorkie1999 Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 I'd say it's all about confidence and to me Pearson was always confident about a result in the next match, whether he got the result is something else. How many people are confident we can get a result on monday night under Shakey? I'm not, in fact i don't think we stand a chance, but under Pearson i would have expected us to get a result.
Nalis Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 8 minutes ago, weller54 said: Shakey is doing his Managerial Apprenticeship in the PL!... He should be doing this in league one or two!... It's a bonkers situation that will only end in tears all round! Christ, dont hold back weller, tell us how you really feel.
Guest Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 17 minutes ago, weller54 said: Shakey is doing his Managerial Apprenticeship in the PL!... He should be doing this in league one or two!... It's a bonkers situation that will only end in tears all round! at last a discussion worth having. Are tears all round or are they tear drop shaped? I think it's a myth and you're right. Tears are all round. p.s. Col, Is this a "look at me" thread?
dylanlegend Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 Craig Levein, Ian Holloway, Gary Megson, Dave Bassett, Nigel Worthington. Is it any wonder we fell in love with Pearson after these drab managers. Like it or not Pearson built this club up from its lowest ebb. Pearson for me is the best 'team building' manager we've had. Under his leadship we always seemed to have a 'direction', we just don't seem to have that at the minute. We seem to be falling into the 'let's buy this player and see how he gets on' whereas with Pearson you always felt like a new player would fit in perfectly. Whether he got lucky or not he was also excellent at building a strong backroom staff: sports science, Shakey and Steve Walsh. Shakespeare could still do very well and I hope he does but we just don't seem to be playing well at the minute. Pearson also had a sort of 'charisma' about him that only certain managers have (Fergie, Allardyche, Mourinho) I like that in a manager, shakys a nice guy but I don't think he has that 'charisma'
Guest Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 When we thump West Brom this weekend. People will love shakey again.
mozartfox Posted 11 October 2017 Posted 11 October 2017 30 minutes ago, gerrytaggart said: hair and shoe choices mainly. Yep - White Trainers get my vote every time - who gives a Toss about results?
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