Foxestalk Brexit Re-Referendum

[Captain...]

2 hours ago, Fox92 said:

I did vote remain but if there was another referendum I'd vote leave on principal I don't think it's fair to vote for something, not get the result you want so re-vote.

 

7 hours ago, Strokes said:

Me neither, if they are asking again before even delivering the original. What is the point?

I would just vote for any party that stands on a manifesto of delivering the result and the rest of that parties politics would be of no interest to me, however extreme they may be.

 

6 hours ago, MattP said:

For a start I wouldn't want to legitimise it, a second referendum before the decision of a first one being implemented would be ridiculous, if they want a second referendum in ten years then no problem, we'll know the circumstances then of the decision and we can decide whether we want to stay on that course or re-enter. Secondly, why would they stop at another referendum if they want to overturn the result? Why not a third after transition? I'm sure the argument will then be "we now know even more, let's have another go, see what the people think" - that's what the establishment does when it doesn't get it's own way in the vote. It's what they did when the irish and the Dutch said no to the Lisbon Treaty.

 

I'd rather let Remain win a second on a low turnout, then as @Strokes says, fight the issue properly in a General Election, put time, effort and money into backing pro-leave MP's of all parties in all seats, with 17.4 million votes to go at you would only need to pick up 65-70% of that to win a majority (Constituency wise the vote was about 61-39% leave becauise of the high concentration of remain voters in Scotland/London) and then implement the decision without any major issues, party politics or threat of backbench rebellion.

 

It's what we should have done in the first place really, would have seen a very different attitude from some MP's then towards the whole issue.

I really don’t understand this attitude. 

 

Any second referendum would be based on fact not a fictional ideal of Brexit spouted by some of the leave campaign. There are some massive issues that need to be resolved and the Irish border is just one. Any decision that imposes a border on NI is not one to be taken lightly. Then there are the actual impacts on people and their jobs that weren’t known. There were a lot of people who voted to leave thinking we would get a Norway or Switzerland deal. It looks like that isn’t going to happen. 

 

I don't agree with this idea that you get one chance to make a decision and if the outcome isn’t what you want you can’t change your mind.

 

Think of it this way, if you get home tonight and your wife/girlfriend/partner whispers seductively into your ear, do you want to try something different tonight, I’m bored of just missionary...

 

All these porn Star fantasies go through your head, you readily agree to what you think will be the best night of your life. Later that evening she comes in wearing a Jeremy Corbyn mask, corduroy gimp suit and giant strap one. Can you not say no? Can you not make one decision based on possibility but change your mind based on the reality? Or do you just bend over and take it because you said yes to something that you didn’t understand at the time?

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

Behave Mr Cameron, you can't throw the Barack line at us again, that already tried and failed (and of course was wrong given his tone straight after). Numerous members of the Australian government have said they want not only a trade deal with us but a "free" trade deal with us. Let's hope we can make that work.

 

No evidence whatsoever we'll be at the back of the queue and hopefully we'll be able to do a trade deal with the two nations that doesn't impose tariffs on things like meat and wine, which the European Union is pretty much certain to do to protect certain sectors.

 

 

3

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/797791/Australia-EU-free-trade-deal-Brexit-UK-Brexit-European-Union

 

His decision to press ahead with the talks means EU negotiators will already be locked in discussions with the two former British dominions when the UK leaves the EU – the first opportunity the UK will have to start fully negotiating its own deal.

The early conclusion of a deal between the EU and Australia and New Zealand would leave the UK playing catch-up in developing its trade ties, despite Theresa May’s claim that Brexit

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/10/australia-ready-to-do-post-brexit-trade-deal-but-eu-comes-first

 

Australia will be ready for a trade deal with the UK soon after Brexit, but will try to do one with the EU first, said Malcolm Turnbull, the country’s prime minister, after talks with Theresa May in Downing Street.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434466/EU-ahead-Britain-trade-deals-say-officials.html

 

The US will strike a free trade deal with the European Union before it agrees one with Britain, it was claimed last night.

Unnamed Washington and European officials claimed the UK had been forced behind the EU in the queue to reach a deal with America.

If true, it would signal a dramatic U-turn on the part of the U.S. president, who has so far opposed negotiating with the EU as a bloc and tried instead to reach deals with separate countries - starting with Britain.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434466/EU-ahead-Britain-trade-deals-say-officials.html#ixzz58Q1IyeAF
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Edited 28 February 2018 by Buce

[Guest Kopfkino]

37 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said:

Any idea what these figures would actually mean though? What does 8% lower growth look like?

 

Is that comparable to the 2008 recession?

 

I dont know how theyve worked it out. But if you assume the UK's trend growth rate to be about 2% (I think it's estimated to be slightly higher but it's around 2%) then the 8% lower means growing at 1.6% instead. 

 

The comparison to 2008 depends how it plays out. If it's just a drop in the growth rate then nothing like, if it's because we suffer a contraction initially then it depends on the size of that contraction. If it's a contraction the size of 2008 initially, then we'd be have to have growth just above 2% to recover to the level of the worst forecasts, essentially saying leaving the EU would provide a boost which effectively tells us it won't be close to 2008 levels.

 

Idk if that makes any sense

[Beechey]

19 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/797791/Australia-EU-free-trade-deal-Brexit-UK-Brexit-European-Union

 

His decision to press ahead with the talks means EU negotiators will already be locked in discussions with the two former British dominions when the UK leaves the EU – the first opportunity the UK will have to start fully negotiating its own deal.

The early conclusion of a deal between the EU and Australia and New Zealand would leave the UK playing catch-up in developing its trade ties, despite Theresa May’s claim that Brexit

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/10/australia-ready-to-do-post-brexit-trade-deal-but-eu-comes-first

 

Australia will be ready for a trade deal with the UK soon after Brexit, but will try to do one with the EU first, said Malcolm Turnbull, the country’s prime minister, after talks with Theresa May in Downing Street.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434466/EU-ahead-Britain-trade-deals-say-officials.html

 

The US will strike a free trade deal with the European Union before it agrees one with Britain, it was claimed last night.

Unnamed Washington and European officials claimed the UK had been forced behind the EU in the queue to reach a deal with America.

If true, it would signal a dramatic U-turn on the part of the U.S. president, who has so far opposed negotiating with the EU as a bloc and tried instead to reach deals with separate countries - starting with Britain.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434466/EU-ahead-Britain-trade-deals-say-officials.html#ixzz58Q1IyeAF
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Except the UK will be party to any deal that the EU signs whilst we're still in the CU, which looks like it may be for a decent number of years yet. That means when we finally leave, it would be in both party's interest (UK and Australia/New Zealand) to simply largely replicate the agreement that was previously in place, since both will have been working with it for years. You're making it out to be some mammoth task here.

 

This is basically confirmed UK policy, May and Fox have both said they want to sign agreements with other countries on "day one" of leaving the CU, which is only legally possible by replicating the deals we currently have.

Edited 28 February 2018 by Beechey

[leicsmac]

The Trump Administration allegedly changing its mind.

 

Colour me surprised.

[Webbo]

I seem to remember the remainers saying referendums were undemocratic and we should leave these things to our elected representatives?

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

I seem to remember the remainers saying referendums were undemocratic and we should leave these things to our elected representatives?

Was that before or after the referendum?

[Webbo]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

Was that before or after the referendum?

After, surprisingly enough.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

I seem to remember the remainers saying referendums were undemocratic and we should leave these things to our elected representatives?

This sums up the whole problem as I see it.

 

Both sides referencing the other with ‘yeah but you said...’. 

 

The actuality of what we have now

is a government that doesn’t know what it’s doing.  A weak PM propped up

by the worst possible allies, a split cabinet and backbenchers itching to stab her in the back.  Then on the other side, possibly the worst opposition in the history of Parliment.

 

Its not about believing the EU over our Politicians or not having any faith in us as a country.  This situation is fvcked and there is actually no way of unfvcking it.

 

I have no doubt that in 10-15 years, we’ll probably be back to a position not too dissimilar from where we were before this all started.  I equally have no doubt at that time, Brexiteers will claim it as a victory and Remainers will see it as a complete waste of time.

 

Nothing better will come of this for anyone.  The country is already a worse place to be because of all the bile and hatred spat by both sides.  That can’t go away.  There are so many conceivable scenarios at the minute that are all equally frightening and any one could come true depending on which fvcking idiot convinces May which way to go first.

 

 

[BlueSi13]

Leave and Leave again.

 

Events following the referendum have only hardened my belief that in the medium/long run it'll have been the right decision.

[ajthefox]

8 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

Leave and Leave again.

 

Events following the referendum have only hardened my belief that in the medium/long run it'll have been the right decision.

What events?

[Wolfox]

Who couldn’t predict that leaving would be a massive cluster fvck?

 

Our entire way of operating is completely embedded with the EU...  

 

We’ve all benefitted from a settled and prosperous EU, we just got conned by a bunch of Tory bellends who continued their playground rivalries into knackering the country

 

A German colleague told me “There’s no way we’d trust the German public with this question... they’re stupid”.  Not quite fair, as I understand some of the frustrations with how the EU operates, but, the point is that we didn’t need the vote...  nobody other than a bunch of pushy back benchers was braying for it...

 

it took the edge off an otherwise fun 2016 for me... 

[The Doctor]

3 hours ago, Captain... said:

. Later that evening she comes in wearing a Jeremy Corbyn mask, corduroy gimp suit and giant strap one. 

That's the single most disturbing image I've ever heard.

 

Voted remain because I didn't trust the UK government (particularly over science funding), and I'd do the same because I still don't. 

[Donut]

11 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

Who couldn’t predict that leaving would be a massive cluster fvck?

 

Our entire way of operating is completely embedded with the EU...  

 

We’ve all benefitted from a settled and prosperous EU, we just got conned by a bunch of Tory bellends who continued their playground rivalries into knackering the country

 

A German colleague told me “There’s no way we’d trust the German public with this question... they’re stupid”.  Not quite fair, as I understand some of the frustrations with how the EU operates, but, the point is that we didn’t need the vote...  nobody other than a bunch of pushy back benchers was braying for it...

 

it took the edge off an otherwise fun 2016 for me... 

Its those "tory bellends" whove seeked to further their own careers. The ones that David Cameron tried to silence, and then the referendum gave them more fuel on the fire.

 

They dont stand to lose.

 

Its not regular people that will benefit from brexit. Disaster capitalists, business owners who will benefit from de-regulation, and in the example i gave in the other thread, bankers will benefit. Theyll have obstacles that prevent exploitative behaviour removed in the guise of "taking back control"

 

There is a split in the country that cannot be reconciled.

 

 

[leicsmac]

21 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

That's the single most disturbing image I've ever heard.

 

Voted remain because I didn't trust the UK government (particularly over science funding), and I'd do the same because I still don't. 

 

Quoted again for emphasis - sadly it's not a priority issue for most, though.

[lifted*fox]

[Vacamion]

 

 

I don't want to go all ad hominem or be too controversial...

 

 

...but it's obvious that leavers (overwhelmingly boomers) in their jingoistic ignorance, fed by propaganda and handwaving avoidance of the nitty gritty, when all that most of them really wanted to do was slow down or stop immigration, delivered the Kremlin's dream result*,  in order to sort out a schoolboy 's tiff between some old Etonians, with the likely outcome that there will be an independent Scotland, troubles in Ireland and poverty and unemployment all over the UK.

 

Leaving the EU (when we eventually do so) is going to hurt us all, especially the poorest, and they are only getting away with it because our opposition is in thrall to crackpot Socialists and is itself unelectable.

 

But hey, let's stick with our vote forever, get on with it, and kick ourselves in the ballsack because "Leave" won by 2%, Brexit means Brexit, and democracy ended in June 2016, eh...

 

 

 

 

* just what WAS Farage doing at the Ecuadorian Embassy visiting Assange, or on that fishing trip with Rohrabacher, and just HOW did Aaron Banks manage to donate so much to the cause? 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, so "remain" / "remain"

 

 

Edited 28 February 2018 by Vacamion
Originally put "leave" /"leave" as a joke, then realised there are no Brexit jokes

[Ian Nacho]

Didn't get to vote in 2016 due to being underage, I was unsure at the time what I would vote for but I was leaning towards leave, however, if I had the chance to vote now it definitely would be remain.

[murphy]

On 28/02/2018 at 01:48, Donut said:

I voted remain, and would still vote remain.

 

Nothing about Brexit has given me any optimism. Taking back control........of what? control so we can have bendy bananas? take control to end policies that protect workers rights? take control to end policies that cap bankers bonuses? What possible benefit am I going to see out of that? None

 

I fear that we have lost a significant percentage of our negotiating power for trade leaving the EU and negotiating our own trade deals. What will that lead to? lots of deregulation so we can import lower quality products to keep costs somewhat reasonable? What are we going to suddenly start selling lots more of to China and India? what about all the companies based here who will be paying tariffs on all the components they import to manufacture products? I have no idea

 

Exporting has been benefitted? the pound is down and im not an exporter

 

Open door immigration is a big issue for so many, but i live in an area with very little EU immigration and can honestly say immigration in its current form has not affected my life. Its not damaged my employment prospects, salary, anything. Its just an easy stick to use against problems like the NHS, when the issue is not immigrants or the EU, its austerity.

 

And during the leave campaign, the leave camp simply told complete lies too on some issues

 

Cant wait to have a blue passport though. And even though ill have less money in my pocket, fvck it.........SOVEREIGNTY

I voted leave in the end, but having seen the shambles of Brexit in action I would now vote remain.  I don't trust any of our political parties to do what we voted for and just leave with no divorce bill.  It seems to me that we will end up with the worst of both worlds - a soft brexit mirroring our existing deal, paying in to the single market and adopting all of it's rules but with no say in the direction and running of it.

 

As for taking back control, you can't see any benefit from being able to make our own laws, deals and regulations?  Would you object to becoming the 51st state in a union with America for example if you don't care who makes our laws?

 

Interesting that you mention the famous bendy bananas.  This was a total lie.  Completely made up by tabloid journalists.  But this is what makes us different.  Why did they make it up?  Because they knew that their readership would be outraged.  We are different IMO as we don't see the rules and laws handed to us as co operation.  We as a nation do not like being told what to do by Europe.  The Germans might adopt them to the letter, the French might shrug but the British?  It makes our eyes twitch.  It makes our teeth itch and it makes us form an involuntary fist.  Our journalists know this and give us what we want - ie bendy banana outrage.

 

What annoys me most about the whole brexit news is the lack of self confidence.  We are the 4th biggest economy in the world and 2nd biggest in Europe.  We are/were 15% of the population of the EU.  We need to recognise that we are a big deal and that we can hurt the EU if they seek to hurt us.  We should have the self confidence to stand up to the EU and walk away instead of this post referendum navel gazing...

 

...Or just chuck the whole thing in if we can't deliver on the vote.

 

Edited 1 March 2018 by murphy

[Donut]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

I voted leave in the end, but having seen the shambles of Brexit in action I would now vote remain.  I don't trust any of our political parties to do what we voted for and just leave with no divorce bill.  It seems to me that we will end up with the worst of both worlds - a soft brexit mirroring our existing deal, paying in to the single market and adopting all of it's rules but with no say in the direction and running of it.

 

As for taking back control, you can't see any benefit from being able to make our own laws, deals and regulations?  Would you object to becoming the 51st state in a union with America for example if you don't care who makes our laws?

 

Interesting that you mention the famous bendy bananas.  This was a total lie.  Completely made up by tabloid journalists.  But this is what makes us different.  Why did they make it up?  Because they knew that their readership would be outraged.  We are different IMO as we don't see the rules and laws handed to us as co operation.  We as a nation do not like being told what to do by Europe.  The Germans might adopt them to the letter, the French might shrug but the British?  It makes our eyes twitch.  It makes our teeth itch and it makes us form an involuntary fist.  Our journalists know this and give us what we want - ie bendy banana outrage.

 

What annoys me most about the whole brexit news is the lack of self confidence.  We are the 4th biggest economy in the world and 2nd biggest in Europe.  We are/were 15% of the population of the EU.  We need to recognise that we are a big deal and that we can hurt the EU if they seek to hurt us.  We should have the self confidence to stand up to the EU and walk away instead of this post referendum navel gazing...

 

...Or just chuck the whole thing in if we can't deliver on the vote.

 

 

Good post. Two points to raise from your post

 

Firstly, I can see benefit in one sense of making our own laws. But, the laws made by the EU arent silly or a threat to our freedom lets be honest. I highly doubt you can give an example where an EU law has had a significant negative impact on you. They are laws that conserve raw materials supplies to benefit everyone. They are laws to protect workers from being exploited. Laws to make sure when we buy products, theyre of a sufficient quality that we wont get injured using them, that they wont break after 4 days, that food standards are good etc. Laws that regulate service industries, laws that mean a doctors qualifications in one country transfer into another and if you do go to hospital, youre in safe hands.

 

So, for me as a remain voter, i never felt like living under EU laws was a problem. As i see it, someone is making laws FOR ME. Even if its the conservative government and then there is a vote in parliament.....do i necessarily contribute to that law making process any more? And as weve seen with the commentary on the common fisheries policy, taking back control wont solve every kink, and governments wont radically change policies that basically work. We gain very little.

 

Also, i think its an easy thing for leave voters to say. "Lets take back control of our own laws"........Well, great. But not so great when you cant name any. Or youre sure laws you cant name are damaging your life. Its just a cliched soundbite people come out with, and it has very little substance behind it.

 

On the subject of trade, we export something like £16 billion to China. To the EU, £256 billion. And most of that is in services, 80% or so ive read.

 

Bearing in mind we already have trade deals with non EU countries anyway:

 

Do you think, to be better off, we can actually offset all the lost trade to the EU we will lose, with increased trade AND MORE to countries like China, to India? What would we sell more of to China and to India? It wouldnt be low cost goods like livestock and produce surely because of the low margins on the products. Likewise, are we going to start exporting more cars to China and India? are manufacturers going to set up plants here, to build and sell cars into markets where the buyer will be paying tariffs? Are we selling services to them, banking, legal etc?

 

Id just be interested in to WHO, and WHAT are we going to sell to offset the loss of trade to the EU.

 

Are we a big deal? or are we a big deal because we are part of the single market? Do we hold THAT much negotiating power all in all? and why have some articles surfaced suggesting that we will be behind the EU in the queue when it comes to negotiating trade with the USA?

 

The words ive highlighted i think are important. I dont think ANYONE knows WHAT they voted for lets be honest. If the government themselves dont, Joe Bloggs on the street certainly doesnt have the first clue about the implications of what that cross in the box meant.

[murphy]

39 minutes ago, Donut said:

 

Good post. Two points to raise from your post

 

Firstly, I can see benefit in one sense of making our own laws. But, the laws made by the EU arent silly or a threat to our freedom lets be honest. I highly doubt you can give an example where an EU law has had a significant negative impact on you. They are laws that conserve raw materials supplies to benefit everyone. They are laws to protect workers from being exploited. Laws to make sure when we buy products, theyre of a sufficient quality that we wont get injured using them, that they wont break after 4 days, that food standards are good etc. Laws that regulate service industries, laws that mean a doctors qualifications in one country transfer into another and if you do go to hospital, youre in safe hands.

 

So, for me as a remain voter, i never felt like living under EU laws was a problem. As i see it, someone is making laws FOR ME. Even if its the conservative government and then there is a vote in parliament.....do i necessarily contribute to that law making process any more? And as weve seen with the commentary on the common fisheries policy, taking back control wont solve every kink, and governments wont radically change policies that basically work. We gain very little.

 

Also, i think its an easy thing for leave voters to say. "Lets take back control of our own laws"........Well, great. But not so great when you cant name any. Or youre sure laws you cant name are damaging your life. Its just a cliched soundbite people come out with, and it has very little substance behind it.

 

On the subject of trade, we export something like £16 billion to China. To the EU, £256 billion. And most of that is in services, 80% or so ive read.

 

Bearing in mind we already have trade deals with non EU countries anyway:

 

Do you think, to be better off, we can actually offset all the lost trade to the EU we will lose, with increased trade AND MORE to countries like China, to India? What would we sell more of to China and to India? It wouldnt be low cost goods like livestock and produce surely because of the low margins on the products. Likewise, are we going to start exporting more cars to China and India? are manufacturers going to set up plants here, to build and sell cars into markets where the buyer will be paying tariffs? Are we selling services to them, banking, legal etc?

 

Id just be interested in to WHO, and WHAT are we going to sell to offset the loss of trade to the EU.

 

Are we a big deal? or are we a big deal because we are part of the single market? Do we hold THAT much negotiating power all in all? and why have some articles surfaced suggesting that we will be behind the EU in the queue when it comes to negotiating trade with the USA?

 

The words ive highlighted i think are important. I dont think ANYONE knows WHAT they voted for lets be honest. If the government themselves dont, Joe Bloggs on the street certainly doesnt have the first clue about the implications of what that cross in the box meant.

 

You are kidding surely?

 

Ok a few off  the top of my head.  EU law dictates the amount of VAT we have to charge like 15% on energy, the UK government has no power to scrap that.  EU law dictates the maximum hours we can work per week.

 

Child benefit for EU workers who's children don't even live here.  Crazy.  We are paying welfare to people who have never set foot in this country.  What really tipped me over the edge before the run up to the referendum was the sight of David Cameron trying to get a new deal in Europe and visiting the premiers of places like Hungary and Poland and asking their permission to withhold benefits to people who due to EU law can just turn up as benefit tourists.  He was humiliated and sent packing.

 

Freedom of movement.  Only the EU can take away a nation's control of it's own borders and call it a 'freedom'.  To me if a country loses control of it's borders then it ceases to be a country.  I just couldn't vote for that.

 

European High Court.  A court that overrules our own highest levels of judiciary.

The human rights act.  Despite the fact that our 'human rights' are already  enshrined in law, this has become abused to the point of ridicule by lawyers who can claim millions from you and I for supposed human rights breaches and blocking the deportation of foreign crimminals.

 

Ever closer union or federalisation.  Do we really want that?

 

The truth for me is that the EU has over reached itself.  A simple trading block that was a good idea has been hijacked by an unnaccountable (yes it is) political ideology.

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 March 2018 by murphy

[NorthfieldsFox]

I’m confused , I thought we were going but all I hear is now we might be staying

 

I don’t care either way really I just want something to happen 

[Donut]

4 minutes ago, murphy said:

 

You are kidding surely?

 

Ok a few off  the top of my head.  EU law dictates the amount of VAT we have to charge like 15% on energy, the UK government has no power to scrap that.  EU law dictates the maximum hours we can work per week.

 

Child benefit for EU workers who's children don't even live here.  Crazy.  We are paying welfare to people who have never set foot in this country.  What really tipped me over the edge before the run up to the referendum was the sight of David Cameron trying to get a new deal in Europe and visiting the premiers of places like Hungary and Poland and asking their permission to withhold benefits to people who due to EU law can just turn up as benefit tourists.  He was humiliated and sent packing.

 

Freedom of movement.  Only the EU can take away a nation's control of it's own borders and call it a 'freedom'.  To me if a country loses control of it's borders then it ceases to be a country.  I just couldn't vote for that.

 

European High Court.  A court that overrules our own highest levels of judiciary.

The human rights act.  Despite the fact that our 'human rights' are already  enshrined in law, this has become abused to the point of ridicule by lawyers who can claim millions from you and I for supposed human rights breaches and blocking the deportation of foreign crimminals.

 

Ever closer union or federalisation.  Do we really want that?

 

The truth for me is that the EU has over reached itself.  A simple trading block that was a good idea has been hijacked by an unnaccountable (yes it is) political ideology.

 

 

 

 

Well, i wont claim to be an expert on EU law, but

 

You could always work as many hours as you wanted under EU law, as you could opt out of the working time directive. You had the option.

 

On the free movement of people, the government can still toughen the immigration policy. Belgium and I believe Germany both have policies to deport immigrants if they dont show they have a certain amount of capital after 3 months. The UK government doesnt enact such a policy.

 

The Child Benefit situation too, immigrants are net contributors to our economy. Most demographic sectors are net takers. So i would imagine any kind of policy centred around benefits takes into account the net contribution effect.

 

I take your points on board, but I dont believe the EU and EU law is personally affecting my life negatively.

[Rogstanley]

2 hours ago, murphy said:

 

Interesting that you mention the famous bendy bananas.  This was a total lie.  Completely made up by tabloid journalists.  But this is what makes us different.  Why did they make it up?  Because they knew that their readership would be outraged.  We are different IMO as we don't see the rules and laws handed to us as co operation.  We as a nation do not like being told what to do by Europe.  The Germans might adopt them to the letter, the French might shrug but the British?  It makes our eyes twitch.  It makes our teeth itch and it makes us form an involuntary fist.  Our journalists know this and give us what we want - ie bendy banana outrage.

 

What annoys me most about the whole brexit news is the lack of self confidence.  

 

Speak for yourself on the first paragraph. EU law doesn't bother me in the slightest and judging from the fact that only 37% of the electorate voted brexit I would say I'm not alone. Of those who voted brexit, only half said the ability for UK politicians to make decisions for them was most important. So all in all there doesn't seem to be a great deal of anti EU law sentiment. Not forgetting that most brexiters who claim not to like EU law have a very poor understanding of any of it.

 

Agree on the 2nd paragraph quoted though. May and the Tories really are pitiful in that respect. Embarrassing weak.

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, Donut said:

Well, i wont claim to be an expert on EU law, but

 

You could always work as many hours as you wanted under EU law, as you could opt out of the working time directive. You had the option.

 

On the free movement of people, the government can still toughen the immigration policy. Belgium and I believe Germany both have policies to deport immigrants if they dont show they have a certain amount of capital after 3 months. The UK government doesnt enact such a policy.

 

The Child Benefit situation too, immigrants are net contributors to our economy. Most demographic sectors are net takers. So i would imagine any kind of policy centred around benefits takes into account the net contribution effect.

 

I take your points on board, but I dont believe the EU and EU law is personally affecting my life negatively.

You're right. 

 

For some reason, the UK government has taken a very lax approach to the freedom of movement starting with Tony Blair and his reluctance to enact any restrictions when Poland joined and reluctance to enact the idea that it is supposed to be freedom of labour rather than feedom of movement.  Ironic that this arch-Europhile should really be the architect of Brexit.

 

I'm self employed now but at my last job, we had a lot of Polish workers and I've got to say they impressed me with their near Teutonic work ethic.  That said, it is hard not to have some sympathy with the likes of Spalding and Boston for example who have seen their towns transformed by migration into something that they no longer recognise.

 

It doesn't really matter who it is.  Even if we were experiencing mass immigration of Brazillian supermodels there is a point when migration becomes too much.  It is a question of numbers.  But, yes, we as a country could have managed the situation better.