Belgium vs. England - The race for 3rd spot (14th of July)

[Kendal Fox]

49 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

That’s fine in the friendlies, but when the World Cup is at stake, it’s probably a better idea to pick the better players who are proven to score goals regularly and in big games, rather than players who will continually let you down.

 

England’s failure to take full advantage of the draw is their own fault.

Agreed. Sheringham featured in several major tournaments and he was an old man in Euro '96 to begin with.

Also, I'm not convinced by this "bringing the youth on" thing.

 

As you say, surely it's most important to have guys with the experience and proven goal scoring/defending credentials as your foundation? And that was proven by the '66 winners, because that squad was made up of numerous over 30 guys!

Edited 14 July 2018 by Kendal Fox

[MC Prussian]

32 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Spurs have more English players than the the other top clubs, of course they're going to have a large proportion of the England team. This anti Spurs talk is a bit stupid tbh.

That's a bit of a strange piece of logic. Just because they have more English players, doesn't mean that it should be reflected in or has to be reflected in more call-ups to the England team.

You can't prove the bias, but surely there's something to it.

 

I think in the end, it's the classic discussion about whether you nominate players for your national side that are full of match practice and raring to go or whether you pick them based on pedigree, personality or personal preference.

[Facecloth]

1 minute ago, Samilktray said:

Well I for one am very happy to see my country make it to the last 4 of the world cup. What a summer it's been 

I'm happy too, but I'm not some happy clapper who just thinks we've made it because we did. Playing like this isn't sustainable and won't bring sustained success. We won't be in many more semi finals setting and playing like this.

[The Guvnor]

Didn't get to see all the match but Delph WTF is he even doing in the squad.

Edited 14 July 2018 by The Guvnor

[The Horse's Mouth]

Southgate may been a good statesman, and a man the fans can warm to. But as a football manager he's shocking.

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

That's a bit of a strange piece of logic. Just because they have more English players, doesn't mean that it should be reflected in or has to be reflected in more call-ups to the England team.

You can't prove the bias, but surely there's something to it.

 

I think in the end, it's the classic discussion about whether you nominate players for your national side that are full of match practice and raring to go or whether you pick them based on pedigree, personality or personal preference.

The fact that they have qualified and played in the champions league for the last few years sort of proves they are good players

[Kendal Fox]

3 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Southgate may been a good statesman, and a man the fans can warm to. But as a football manager he's shocking.

I know it's easy to say this after the event but I wouldn't be surprised if we look back on this in a few years and realise he was just a puppet.

[dylanlegend]

Feel bad for Vards, he should have at least replaced Sterling. 

 

Ive said it all along but Rashford is overrated. Is he played for us in Vardys position there's no way he'd score as many as Vardy has.

 

Goes to show that playing all the Spurs bottlers wins you nothing (Dier and Alli appalling).

 

Maguire was England's best player and he's not even our best player 

[MC Prussian]

9 minutes ago, Webbo said:

The fact that they have qualified and played in the champions league for the last few years sort of proves they are good players

That's the thing: Should they be chosen because they are good players or because they are the "right" players?

[SouthStandUpperTier]

England have good players, but how many are the most influential player for their clubs. Kane? Possibly, although I would argue Eriksen is more important. Unless we can produce a player of the quality of an Eriksen, a Hazard, a Modric, or a De Bruyne we will struggle to make inroads. Obviously, it's not easy producing players of that standard, but that is what we desperately lack.

[Webbo]

Just now, MC Prussian said:

That's the thing: Should they be chosen because they are good players or because they are the "right" players?

Who was more right?

[MC Prussian]

14 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Who was more right?

I don't have an answer to the question, that'd be down to the choice of the manager.

 

But looking at the performances in the knockout stages, there was clearly something missing coming from midfield, odd choice to promote Walker to a centre-back position on the right in this 3-5-1-1 or whatever you want to call it, a lack of speed when going from defending to attacking, little emphasis on counter attacks, and Kane turned pretty much invisible after the group stages also.

 

Pickford in goal was a revelation, as was Maguire. I was impressed by Henderson's and Trippier's effort on the whole, too.

Not convinced by Sterling, Rashford (to some extent), Alli or Lingard.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited 14 July 2018 by MC Prussian

[katieakita]

To get to a semi final is fantastic but lets not get ahead of ourselves. We had chances to beat Croatia but did not take them. Think Southgate is a decent guy but a long way from being a great manager. Some of our players tailed off badly and Harry Kane went from being a world class striker to being the guy who performed poorly at the last Euros. Cannot believe he is 100% fit or close to it, Ali also looked nowhere near full fitness and playing players not fully fit will get you found out in  the end. We still need a few more players to improve the team but nice the country has for the moment fallen back in love with the national side. Individually some have had good tournaments a couple have had great tournaments but too many have had a below par world cup and that will not normally get you as far as we got

[Webbo]

We've done better than we've done for 28 years with arguably the worse squad in that time. Some of that is down to the draw, but it's still an achievement.

[Wymsey]

What is actually defined as 'success' regarding England? 

[davieG]

20 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

What is actually defined as 'success' regarding England? 

Beating Germany or getting further than them in a tournament.  

[norwichfox]

Does this mean we can get Vardy and Maguire back now? Hopefully both fit and uninjured.

[Col city fan]

I think anyone being honest would agree there was only one team ever going to win that game.

On our part, it was slow, turgid rubbish if truth be told.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Facecloth said:

 I can see a Rooney situation coming too, with players being undroppable no matter how poorly they play or how injured they are.

Sadly this is exactly how I see Southgate. We could and should have qualified for the final and had a chance to win it all if Southgate had replaced the players who were tired/out of form/shit during the competition.

 

1 hour ago, Samilktray said:

Well I for one am very happy to see my country make it to the last 4 of the world cup. What a summer it's been 

I think we all are - or nearly all - I'm very happy we made the last 4. I didn't expect it and it was great for the country. As it is we should have made the final and we shouldn't just ignore that and our shortcomings because we exceeded expectations in how long we lasted. In the end we only beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden in 90 minutes and Colombia on penalties. Is that really a great roll call?

 

1 hour ago, The Guvnor said:

Didn't get to see all the match but Delph WTF is he even doing in the squad.

 

Well he's better than Alli and Dier and they're regularly in the starting 11.

 

 

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

The fact that they have qualified and played in the champions league for the last few years sort of proves they are good players

Not necessarily. It proves that there are good players in the the Spurs team (there best are undoubtedly playing for Denmark, Belgium and France imo) and a good manager and coaching. The fact they keep bottling good positions as a team though must be worrying.

 

Having said that Kane was great against the minnows in this world cup. Trippier was outstanding. Walker was good. Alli and Dire were dire and Rose was probably not fit. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Who was more right?

Ian?

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Southgate may been a good statesman, and a man the fans can warm to. But as a football manager he's shocking.

Salesman

[Dan LCFC]

I am a bit bored of the amount of people who immediately shut down a word of criticism because we made the semi final.

 

This has turned out to be probably my favourite World Cup from an England fan's point of view - and if you were to compare it to the disgraceful last few tournaments you'd say there is undoubted progress under Southgate. There is a camaraderie between the fans and players and for once, we had a plan which we stuck to. We got as far as we have in 28 years. That's a good effort.

 

But it doesn't make us completely immune from criticism either. The Kane / Rooney comparisons are worryingly true and that he saw all 90 minutes today concerns me a bit - it signifies to me that we're still going to keep picking players regardless of their fitness or how well they're performing. He was a passenger today and should never have lasted the 90. It may be a meaningless game in the eyes of sum but if anything that's even more reason for him to come off.

 

And unfortunately, we have been shown up every time we've played someone decent. We dealt with Sweden very well, and we came through that Colombia game when we all thought we were done for, but we've been outclassed by Croatia and now Belgium twice. We aren't the finished article. In-fact we aren't even close. We are in my eyes, an above average side who've fortuitously made the semi finals through draws falling our way.

 

The good bond created between fans and players is the thing you can take most from this, and my hope is that from now on fans and the media have an increased desire to see young English players getting minutes.

 

What else we need to see is some real quality midfielders come through in this country. We just don't have them. I want Foden, Maddison and Winks all really kicking on ahead of the Euros - midfielders with invention, creativity, technical ability. Our lack of midfield was shown up once again earlier.

 

Southgate stays on for me. I hope the tournament helps him grow as a manager.

[Chico1958]

I got bored and went out to pick up my daughter.

 

I'm sorry bit I'm not getting all the hype. Slow, no creativity, no pace or urgency. I'm not saying they didn't do well however if Belgium had had the England route they would be playing tomorrow.

 

Pickford, Harry ( both ) can hold their head up...... but for me the rest were average. As for Southgate, nice enough bloke but I wouldn't have as our Manager let alone the National Team.

 

By the way I'm not looking for an  argument I'm just expressing my thoughts.

[Md9]

A bit frustrating watching today, Kane only played because he wanted to score for the golden boot but has been poor most of the tournament. If he is injured I then he shouldn’t play we had a squad of players to cope if someone was injured. Not a massive fan of welbeck or rashford but if they where to play and are 100%fit and Kane isn’t then there pace alone would cause problems for teams instead of having Kane stand around or a light jog. Dier is not good in my opinion would have rather had delph come on for the 2 games he did come on in the knockouts. Ali has been poor another one if injured should not have played. Lingard did ok in bits but I feel like him and rashford at any other club than utd don’t get in the squad. Pickford did very well and can not see him being at Everton much longer. I am happy we got to the semi final but we never looked like we could cause to many teams problems in the knockouts. Hopefully we stop playing the players that are not fully fit or in form and make the players play for there place because all we ever seem to do is pick the same players and it must be frustrating for players like vardy, loftus cheek even welbeck to not get a chance because Ali or lingard make the first 11 no matter how poor they play. We have no plan b where if we had took a player like crouch or Carrol type of player we could have put Croatia under more pressure with balls in to the box instead of trying to just pass it in the net. 

I think we could challenge for the euros but after that I can see teams like Germany, Spain even Portugal having had a big clear out of the old players and bringing there own youth through so we could end up back at where we started if we don’t kick on and find  ways to win even tho we have not played well, 

This prob makes no sense but I am really tired and wanted to have a little rant ? much love all x

[Col city fan]

53 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I am a bit bored of the amount of people who immediately shut down a word of criticism because we made the semi final.

 

This has turned out to be probably my favourite World Cup from an England fan's point of view - and if you were to compare it to the disgraceful last few tournaments you'd say there is undoubted progress under Southgate. There is a camaraderie between the fans and players and for once, we had a plan which we stuck to. We got as far as we have in 28 years. That's a good effort.

 

But it doesn't make us completely immune from criticism either. The Kane / Rooney comparisons are worryingly true and that he saw all 90 minutes today concerns me a bit - it signifies to me that we're still going to keep picking players regardless of their fitness or how well they're performing. He was a passenger today and should never have lasted the 90. It may be a meaningless game in the eyes of sum but if anything that's even more reason for him to come off.

 

And unfortunately, we have been shown up every time we've played someone decent. We dealt with Sweden very well, and we came through that Colombia game when we all thought we were done for, but we've been outclassed by Croatia and now Belgium twice. We aren't the finished article. In-fact we aren't even close. We are in my eyes, an above average side who've fortuitously made the semi finals through draws falling our way.

 

The good bond created between fans and players is the thing you can take most from this, and my hope is that from now on fans and the media have an increased desire to see young English players getting minutes.

 

What else we need to see is some real quality midfielders come through in this country. We just don't have them. I want Foden, Maddison and Winks all really kicking on ahead of the Euros - midfielders with invention, creativity, technical ability. Our lack of midfield was shown up once again earlier.

 

Southgate stays on for me. I hope the tournament helps him grow as a manager.

 

[MrsJohnMurphy]

4 hours ago, lee7 said:

Kane's been plodding around for the last 2/3 games now having no influence on the games yet somehow stayed on the pitch.

 

We really lack any sort of creative midfielder or a midfielder that will drive forward with the ball and force defenders out of positions to create gaps. 

Belgium have De Bruyne, Dembele, Witsel etc they all drive forwards with the ball and make defenders commit and then pick off passes. Not to forget Hazard who drops deep to pick up the ball. 

Whereas we had Eric Dier who loves a sideways pass and rarely drives forward. That's the biggest difference! We move the ball so slowly up the pitch. I can't wait to see Phil Foden eventually break into this team. 

Got to break into Man City's team first which probably isn't going to happen