Claude Puel reaches first anniversary at Leicester - but why does he always feel so close to the sack?

[SuperMike]

Glad all you Puel lovers are delighted with the situation! Yes, 11th is okay - but the clairvoyant in me sees the writing on the wall - same as when Peter Taylor was the chosen one and when Holloway was our saviour and when Paulo Sousa was god's gift.

So let's wait and see, whilst taking delight in the qualiteeee.......

[SecretPro]

38 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I think my problem is I spend more time going down the worm hole of battling against over the top shite than I probably do stating my position.

I did cry a little bit the other week when you lumped me in with the 'next time we have a bad game you will be calling for his head again'...I've never called for Puel to go, In fact I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as most make out. I'd say these days I'm just indifferent to him but I've always been able to see what he's trying to do and as far as I can tell, most of the blame with how things are at the minute should lie with the players and those in charge of recruitment.

 

I'm over it now though.

[Stadt]

Daniel Storey’s “Puel builds the house but doesn’t host the parties” comment is very much true I think. Puel needs to be given time but but even if things went exactly to plan I don’t think we’d be challenging the top 6 under him. He’s giving us a better platform, it’s not the most entertaining process but necessary. 

 

Barring disaster I reckon the intention is for Puel to see out his contract and make a more aggressive appointment then 

[Babylon]

43 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

This 'long term' plan thing. How long is it? 2-3 years?

Maguire, Maddison and others won't be here in 2-3 years unless we're winning trophies or playing in Champions League.

Do we then have to give Puel (or any manager) another 2-3 years as he puts the next long term plan in action with replacements for those above?

Depends what the aim is doesn't it, as to how long the plan needs looking at. We are spending a small fortune on a training ground with similar huge sums of money to be spent on the ground. We've sacrificed extra short term investment on the squad for the long term aim of trying to move the entire club forward off the pitch, bringing us into the next bracket size of club.

 

With that in mind the first and clear aim is DON'T GO DOWN, keep us safe whilst the off the field growth is happening. Granted finishing 17th wouldn't be looked on kindly, the owners will expect comfortable.

 

Secondly, transition the team away from an aging squad. This is necessary due to how many older players we had, but it also meets another objective of helping to be self sustaining. The club won't say it, but buying raw talent and then selling them on for a profit if you have to is a far better business model done right, than spending £25/30m on 29 year olds. Puel fits in nicely with that ethos.

 

Thirdly, changing the style of play. The best teams more often than not have more posession and are far better on the ball. We had to be more comfortable in possession, getting 30% of the ball against Huddersfield and relying on two counters a game wasn't fun. The key is blending comfortable posession football, with ruthless counters and intricate passing through teams.

 

Puel may never complete 3, he might not be capable of, but he's getting the chance to. The way I look at it, the key is staying safe for now. Once the stadium and training ground launch. That's when I can see the owners expectations jump quite rapidly. I can see Puel (if he's still here), getting moved on in favour of someone who then can take us forward on the pitch. We'd have the infrastructure to back that up and I'd hope they'd back that up in spending as well.

 

So whatever the completion date of the ground and training ground are, for me the club will be comfortable with treading water until then. With Puel being tasked with some dirty work, in preparation of the next phase. When for once, peoples unrealistic aims are far more realistic.

Edited 23 October 2018 by Babylon

[Ric Flair]

37 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

This 'long term' plan thing. How long is it? 2-3 years?

Maguire, Maddison and others won't be here in 2-3 years unless we're winning trophies or playing in Champions League.

Do we then have to give Puel (or any manager) another 2-3 years as he puts the next long term plan in action with replacements for those above?

?

 

Spot on, the only way to see this through is a progressive recruitment model that accounts for this time and time again. Factor in we have recruitment directors who have zero chance of promotion to director of football at our club and you can see the vulnerability of losing the masterminds behind our recruitment and it falling down. 

 

All our blueprint has to be a two pronged attack, a philosophy of purchasing players that add value to the team playing wise and financially and gaining results. It's easy to dismiss a lack of improvement by saying we're a work in progress. The problem there is we are unlikely to be the same work in progress later down the line as any promising young asset will want to move on and then the goalposts shift. 

 

Get rid of him.

[Babylon]

30 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

I did cry a little bit the other week when you lumped me in with the 'next time we have a bad game you will be calling for his head again'...I've never called for Puel to go, In fact I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as most make out. I'd say these days I'm just indifferent to him but I've always been able to see what he's trying to do and as far as I can tell, most of the blame with how things are at the minute should lie with the players and those in charge of recruitment.

 

I'm over it now though.

Sorry Secret

[fuchsntf]

5 hours ago, SuperMike said:

Fancy trying to outpass The Arsenal at the Emirates!! Ridiculous. He rattles on about qualitee but there was nil quality for the last hour of that game. Despite setting up for possession it ended up 70-30 to the home side and the second half must've been more like 85-15. His substitions were bizarre as usual. Other than against the two bottom sides we haven't won in the premier league since august - and that was a flukey smash and grab against a poor southampton side (poor, but better than us). He has no plan b and his plan a appears to be based around passing for passing's sake. The players dont look inspired or motivated. Half the team look to be playing out of position. People rant on about his commitment to youth but the young stars (Chilwell, Grey, Maguire, Barnes etc) were all here before he was -and I doubt he had much input into the signing of Maddison. Others point out the run of results when he first arrived - but how much of that was down to Appleton, who could at least communicate with the players. The last 8 games of last season pointed the way to what we were becoming. Other than thoroughly undeserved wins against Wolves and Southampton and wins against the bottom two, we have continued that losing form. He talks of regular Champions League football in much the same way as Paulo (one-win-in-nine-games) Sousa did. Surely the owners will react the same way as they did to his bull and bluster - and GET RID - NOW!

Subs..blah,blah,blah...you didn't agree with our subs,since they were introduced,say back when,and you probably wasn't even born..

I could keep writing, Adolph and Elvis are still alive,and some will create a pathetic conspiracy story....

 

what is this total pathetic rubbish with Puels subs.  We have a squad what we have....Crunch is dead,Messi and Ronaldo play elsewhere,

the u23 are not good enough,so we have a group of potential choices,that spilt 30k of super would be managers from the terraces.

some believe he's wrong every time,others sometimes wrong,others often right,some nearly right,then those like me...we have

who we have...from a possible 13 other choices....(25 man squad)

Because some  individual fans like yourself take it on themselves to be super knowledgeable common sense fans,that always know-better

I say....baahhh humbug!!!  Scrooge was clever but tight...and blind to the real world....I

Like a few of our fans...they want something that ain't there,but wants the joys of their dreams..

@Babylon  hits it on the nail....Our squad at the moment doesn't yet have that quality group,we believe we have...

 

[coolhandfox]

56 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Depends what the aim is doesn't it, as to how long the plan needs looking at. We are spending a small fortune on a training ground with similar huge sums of money to be spent on the ground. We've sacrificed extra short term investment on the squad for the long term aim of trying to move the entire club forward off the pitch, bringing us into the next bracket size of club.

 

With that in mind the first and clear aim is DON'T GO DOWN, keep us safe whilst the off the field growth is happening. Granted finishing 17th wouldn't be looked on kindly, the owners will expect comfortable.

 

Secondly, transition the team away from an aging squad. This is necessary due to how many older players we had, but it also meets another objective of helping to be self sustaining. The club won't say it, but buying raw talent and then selling them on for a profit if you have to is a far better business model done right, than spending £25/30m on 29 year olds. Puel fits in nicely with that ethos.

 

Thirdly, changing the style of play. The best teams more often than not have more posession and are far better on the ball. We had to be more comfortable in possession, getting 30% of the ball against Huddersfield and relying on two counters a game wasn't fun. The key is blending comfortable posession football, with ruthless counters and intricate passing through teams.

 

Puel may never complete 3, he might not be capable of, but he's getting the chance to. The way I look at it, the key is staying safe for now. Once the stadium and training ground launch. That's when I can see the owners expectations jump quite rapidly. I can see Puel (if he's still here), getting moved on in favour of someone who then can take us forward on the pitch. We'd have the infrastructure to back that up and I'd hope they'd back that up in spending as well.

 

So whatever the completion date of the ground and training ground are, for me the club will be comfortable with treading water until then. With Puel being tasked with some dirty work, in preparation of the next phase. When for once, peoples unrealistic aims are far more realistic.

I think you nailed it mostly, I think that is the direction of travel that the owners have settle on, however having a a bigger ground and nicer training ground without a improvement of the field doesn't guarantee us moving upto the next bracket of club.

 

I think the idea however is spot on, just not sure that Puel is the man to deliver it, unfortunately there isn't much choice out there in manager land to deliver that version.

 

Lack of a killer instinct/will to win, or just plain bad luck, another day we could have scored 4 last night.

Edited 23 October 2018 by coolhandfox

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I think you nailed it mostly, I think that the direction of travel that the owners have settle on, however having a a bigger ground and nice training ground without a improvement of the field doesn't guarantee us moving to the next bracket of club.

 

I think the idea however is spot on, just not sure that Puel is the man to deliver it, unfortunately there isn't much choice out there in manager land to deliver that version.

 

Lack of a killer instinct/will to win, or just plain bad luck, another day we could have scored 4 last night.

I look at Puel as being Phase 2 of a 3 phase plan. We're not seen as anything more than a Derby, Norwich, Middlesborough, Stoke etc to anyone outside of Leicester. Once the off the field stuff is coming to fruition, then it gives us a great opportunity to pick up a manager that can see how ambitious we are and that they've really got the chance to do something here. Rather than just being another 25/30k capacity team bobbing around midtable. I'm not seeing him as the man to realise everyone's dreams, but as the person to steady the ship whilst implementing things we can reap the benefits of in the future.

Edited 23 October 2018 by Babylon

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

I think you nailed it mostly, I think that is the direction of travel that the owners have settle on, however having a a bigger ground and nicer training ground without a improvement of the field doesn't guarantee us moving upto the next bracket of club.

 

I think the idea however is spot on, just not sure that Puel is the man to deliver it, unfortunately there isn't much choice out there in manager land to deliver that version.

 

Lack of a killer instinct/will to win, or just plain bad luck, another day we could have scored 4 last night.

And this is what the bottom line comes down to for me when it comes to thinking about In/Out. Sacking for the sake of sacking would be absolutely pointless in our position now.

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

I look at Puel as being Phase 2 of a 3 phase plan. We're not seen as anything more than a Derby, Norwich, Middlesborough, Stoke etc to anyone outside of Leicester. Once the off the field stuff is coming to fruition, then it gives us a great opportunity to pick up a manager that can see how ambitious we are and that they've really got the chance to do something here. Rather than just being another 25/30k capacity team bobbing around midtable.

I have to agree I would consider him a caretaker, until we can attract someone better.

 

The issue is we hit the height so early that it raised everyone expectations. 

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

And this is what the bottom line comes down to for me when it comes to thinking about In/Out. Sacking for the sake of sacking would be absolutely pointless in our position now.

Have to agree, Puel drive me mad but I can't see anyone out there that is guaranteed to do better, but there is a lot that could do a lot worse.

 

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Puel has now been in charge for a full league season

Played 38, points 50

That's pretty good.

PUEL MUST STAY

 

---------

 

Puel's last 16 Premier League games

Won 5

Drawn 1

Lost 10

16 points from possible 48

PUEL MUST GO

 

---------

 

Take yer pick! 

[Goober]

For me, unless the board are absolutely certain  they’ve found the next Pochettino or know they’ll get Howe/maybe Rodgers in, sacking him is pointless. 

 

Like many others, I’m still not fully convinced by the bloke, but I believe he’s trying to do the right things and I’m more confident in him as our gaffer than I was at the back end of last season. Questions should be asked of some of the performances and collapses so far this season but the meltdown from some is embarrassing. We’re doing okay, nothing more nothing less. 

 

We really should be winning the next couple, let’s see how we go.

[Blue ROI]

22 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I look at Puel as being Phase 2 of a 3 phase plan. We're not seen as anything more than a Derby, Norwich, Middlesborough, Stoke etc to anyone outside of Leicester. Once the off the field stuff is coming to fruition, then it gives us a great opportunity to pick up a manager that can see how ambitious we are and that they've really got the chance to do something here. Rather than just being another 25/30k capacity team bobbing around midtable. I'm not seeing him as the man to realise everyone's dreams, but as the person to steady the ship whilst implementing things we can reap the benefits of in the future.

Good points you have made but I would disagree with the bit in bold.

 

All of those clubs are championship right now and I would argue that we are currently a much bigger draw than them as of now, not just because of 2016.

 

Okay we can't compete with the elite clubs like Arsenal, Livepool, Manchester x2, Chelsea, Wolves but let's not go overboard here.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SuperMike said:

Glad all you Puel lovers are delighted with the situation! Yes, 11th is okay - but the clairvoyant in me sees the writing on the wall - same as when Peter Taylor was the chosen one and when Holloway was our saviour and when Paulo Sousa was god's gift.

So let's wait and see, whilst taking delight in the qualiteeee.......

That's all well and good and I'm glad you're feeling so superior, but there aren't actually any Puel lovers are there? Nobody is saying they're delighted with how we're doing - it's all in your head. You're not some radical visionary standing against the tide of Puel worship

 

 

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, Blue ROI said:

Good points you have made but I would disagree with the bit in bold.

 

All of those clubs are championship right now and I would argue that we are currently a much bigger draw than them as of now, not just because of 2016.

 

Okay we can't compete with the elite clubs like Arsenal, Livepool, Manchester x2, Chelsea, Wolves but let's not go overboard here.

I'm just randomly picking teams, it could have been Watford, Palace, Brighton, Southampton, Wolves, whichever mid level teams are currently in the prem. The size of club that bobs about for a bit in the permier league but ultimately they just change places with another equally similar sized club at some point upon relegation. 

[lgfualol]

2 minutes ago, Guest said:

That's all well and good and I'm glad you're feeling so superior, but there aren't actually any Puel lovers are there? Nobody is saying they're delighted with how we're doing - it's all in your head. You're not some radical visionary standing against the tide of Puel worship

Reminds me of the Brexit debate. 

 

"hm, perhaps remaining is the best option"

"FACKIN EU-LOVER"

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, Guest said:

That's all well and good and I'm glad you're feeling so superior, but there aren't actually any Puel lovers are there? Nobody is saying they're delighted with how we're doing - it's all in your head. You're not some radical visionary standing against the tide of Puel worship

 

 

I've run out of likes.... LIKE!

[Stadt]

The biggest frustration last season was the home form, drawing 0-0, 1-1 and losing to shit teams was the main issue. We've lost to Everton as a result of a red card, lost to a title challenger and beaten two teams we'd expect to. It's weird that if we beat West Ham all will be well again, lose and it's disaster 

[lgfualol]

6 minutes ago, Stadt said:

The biggest frustration last season was the home form, drawing 0-0, 1-1 and losing to shit teams was the main issue. We've lost to Everton as a result of a red card, lost to a title challenger and beaten two teams we'd expect to. It's weird that if we beat West Ham all will be well again, lose and it's disaster 

We really lack a plan B for home games. Unless they're shit, every team knows you come to Leicester, you don't play a high line and force us out wide. We cross it in a million times to some midgets and without space Vardy is a passenger. 

 

Everyone hated Slim but reckon he would definitely have helped with our home form.

[Blue ROI]

Just now, lgfualol said:

We really lack a plan B for home games. Unless they're shit, every team knows you come to Leicester, you don't play a high line and force us out wide. We cross it in a million times to some midgets and without space Vardy is a passenger. 

 

Everyone hated Slim but reckon he would definitely have helped with our home form.

Slim wasn't as good as we hoped for being a £30m buy but his goals at times in 2016/17 when things went very bad helped keep us in the division.

 

We expected more from what we spent on him but the cost of being relegated would have been far greater.Far from perfect but we got some value for that alone.

 

Should have been given more of a chance last season. We are badly lacking a targetman up front.

[David Hankey]

He was and never will be worth £30M!!

[CosbehFox]

Might as well just sack him I’ve decided. There’s an unattainable target bring desire. Sack him, move on, have Big Sam in and just keep the train rolling 

[Xen]

1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Puel has now been in charge for a full league season

Played 38, points 50

That's pretty good.

PUEL MUST STAY

 

---------

 

Puel's last 16 Premier League games

Won 5

Drawn 1

Lost 10

16 points from possible 48

PUEL MUST GO

 

---------

 

Take yer pick! 

Interesting that you've chosen to frame it differently each time...

 

As an actual comparison: That's 1.3ppg vs 1ppg. A slight regression, sure, although the 16-game period includes the back end of last season when we had nothing to play for (and players were saving themselves for the WC) and the start of this season where we've had a few injuries and some individual mistakes which have cost us (e.g. 3x red cards). Not sure how much of that 'dip' we can pin on Puel. We're somewhere in the middle of those two PPG rates at the minute with a very healthy run of fixtures coming up, so that will probably take an upwards turn anyway.

 

Puel has been unspectacular so far but as others have said we're clearly a club in transistion, so Puel keeping us comfortably in mid-table during this period is nothing to be sniffed at.