Lack of creativity under Puel

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Last night's 'performance' (despite the win) being unable to score at home to the side with probably the lowest confidence in the PL and a manager openly being touted as a gonner, has finally turned me against Puel and his methods, after being on the fence for so long.

 

I appreciate Puel has many good points - the pretty football, improved technique and the emphasis on youth. But his football has no penetration and a result we are struggling to beat poor and defensive sides which should be our bread and butter now, and has been for most of our time in the PL.

 

In particular, at home when the emphasis is on us to attack against a side sat back, we look clueless, and this is not due to lacking the personnel - it is Puel's refusal to have the team take risks and push players forward. Southampton had the same gripes under him - and can't him changing now.

 

We have good players and should be looking a better team - it's the manager who is below par. #puelOUT

[StriderHiryu]

Maybe merge this thread into the "Why can't we score" one? Similar points being raised and discussed there. 

 

Definitely understand the frustration!

[siraaj_lcfc]

I really don't know what to think at the moment. 

The players are clearly still affected by the tragic events but we can't use it as an excuse to under-perform. As far as creativity is concerned, Maddison's form certainly isn't as good as it was towards the start of the season and Vardz isn't looking the same. We have a good squad but im not sure CP's tactics are working. 

[shilton_fox]

I do understand the frustration but when you take 9 changes into account, with 2 attacking full backs replaced by 2 defensive full backs, you can see why creativity was limited. We’ve stopped shipping goals now which I feel was a bigger problem. Fully believe it’ll come together up top in time, 1 or 2 quality acquisitions needed. But we can’t be to doom and gloom about it all, 10th scored in every premier league match but 1 this season and quarter final of a cup! I’d have snapped ya hand off for that when we first got promoted!

Edited 28 November 2018 by shilton_fox

[OhYesNdidi]

It’s not just puel though. The last two managers have had the same problem. & imo, creatively our players aren’t very good

Edited 28 November 2018 by OhYesNdidi

[Ian Nacho]

When the atmosphere is like a pre season game, it's hardly going to be the most enthralling games. 

[StriderHiryu]

25 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

It’s not just puel though. The last two managers have had the same problem. & imo, creatively our players aren’t very good

Yes exactly. Whilst Puel has to come in for criticism here it’s not like we have a team full of David Silva / Kevin De Bruyne esque playmakers. Remember we sold our most creative player in the summer. 

 

How many genuinely creative teams teams are in the league? Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal and this season Chelsea. Man United are a worse version of us (more money spent but even more boring to watch) and there’s no Swansea style team who are midtable but creative. Everton were meh and Southampton are miles away from that team they had with Koeman in charge. 

 

It’s not easy to make an easy on the eye team that is successful!

Edited 28 November 2018 by StriderHiryu

[Father Ted]

23 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

When the atmosphere is like a pre season game, it's hardly going to be the most enthralling games. 

And maybe the atmosphere is like this because there are no inspiring reasons to go and watch the football anymore? I remember the Pearson days where the first 10 minutes were all out guns blazing attack, now it's let the opposition score first. No buzz anymore.

[OhYesNdidi]

Just now, Father Ted said:

And maybe the atmosphere is like this because there are no inspiring reasons to go and watch the football anymore? I remember the Pearson days where the first 10 minutes were all out guns blazing attack, now it's let the opposition score first. No buzz anymore.

Shame about the other 80 though

[Tringfox]

53 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Last night's 'performance' (despite the win) being unable to score at home to the side with probably the lowest confidence in the PL and a manager openly being touted as a gonner, has finally turned me against Puel and his methods, after being on the fence for so long.

 

I appreciate Puel has many good points - the pretty football, improved technique and the emphasis on youth. But his football has no penetration and a result we are struggling to beat poor and defensive sides which should be our bread and butter now, and has been for most of our time in the PL.

 

In particular, at home when the emphasis is on us to attack against a side sat back, we look clueless, and this is not due to lacking the personnel - it is Puel's refusal to have the team take risks and push players forward. Southampton had the same gripes under him - and can't him changing now.

 

We have good players and should be looking a better team - it's the manager who is below par. #puelOUT

The pretty football?? Maybe at other clubs but not hear!

[Father Ted]

2 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

Shame about the other 80 though

102 points romping the Championship, romped League 1, 2 play off campaigns, the greatest Premier League escape of all time playing some incredible football. 

 

At least Puel could beat a Burnley side to 7th and secure us a European place... oh wait 

[OhYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, Father Ted said:

102 points romping the Championship, romped League 1, 2 play off campaigns, the greatest Premier League escape of all time playing some incredible football. 

 

At least Puel could beat a Burnley side to 7th and secure us a European place... oh wait 

Stop comparing the championship & lower to the premier league. 

 

Incredible footballin some games I agree, probably about half of those last 7 games. 

Edited 28 November 2018 by OhYesNdidi

[Richard]

442 just didn’t work for me. Iheanacho can’t play the deeper role and I thought we looked much better when Okazaki came on and linked up with the midfield better. 

 

People complained about Silva passing side wards but the forward pass was rarely on with 4v4in the middle and vardy and iheanacho square. We need a more creative central player, which only Maddison really offers and he’s not quite ‘there’ yet. 

 

 

[Beechey]

3 minutes ago, Father Ted said:

102 points romping the Championship, romped League 1, 2 play off campaigns, the greatest Premier League escape of all time playing some incredible football. 

 

At least Puel could beat a Burnley side to 7th and secure us a European place... oh wait 

So your argument basically is that Pearson is better because he survived in the Premier League for a season, because winning the Championship, getting to playoffs and winning League One (lol) is worth nothing really.

Edited 28 November 2018 by Beechey

[Finnegan]

You will never, ever be a possession side if players don't move and if the team are too spread out. 

 

I've nearly started a thread about this after a few recent matches but I just think, who cares, why bother? We could all unanimously agree it still doesn't change what Puel coaches. 

 

I don't understand how they don't get it. 

 

Ndidi or Morgan or whoever will have the ball and this is what they see:

 

Chilwell way out extreme left, today's lucky winger about ten yards ahead of him. 

 

Ricardo or Amartey out way extreme right, Ghezzal or whoever ahead of him. 

 

Vardy way, way up on the shoulder, Maddison or Iheanacho a few yards off him. 

 

Centre half sitting about five metres away behind ball carrier. Other central midfielder about fifteen metres away marked by an opponent. 

 

Every single one of those players are rooted to the spot refusing to move anywhere. Ball carriers options: smash it long (told not to do that) or pass it backwards. Fans all blame ball carrier, occasionally Ndidi will attempt a pass to one of these marked players and everyone will go nuts when we lose it but is it really his fault?

 

A possession based team needs two things: movement and proximity. Pass and move (Liverpool groove), it's not ****ing complicated, most of you probably do it with your mates playing fives ffs. Our lot are just so lazy, they're all standing there waiting for the ball to come to them. 

 

You watch Man City or Arsenal or Liverpool, Barca or even Bournemouth, their players are all close to each other so they've always got a close passing option. It also means that if you lose the ball, two or three players are all near to win it back. 

 

Our best player at this? Shinji Okazaki. He's our only player that's not only constantly moving but he's constantly moving towards the ball carrier and he's constantly looking around him. Watch him next time he plays, he's twitchy, he's looking over his shoulder and around himself at all times, he constantly knows where the ball is coming from and he just looks to quickly move it on again. 

 

It's why he was key in moves like this one in 15/16:

 

Which we did a couple times that year, I'm sure there was another passage similar to that away against Man City. Look how close they all are to one another. 

 

Now watch some footage from last night and how horribly spread out and static we all were. 

 

Maddison is just as guilty as everyone else, he's a kid mind with a lot of time to learn but he needs to be watching Shinji and taking it on board. He might be better at passing, dribbling and trapping a ball than Shinji but he's no way near as good at that spot behind Vardy because he doesn't use his head. We were all very excited about him linking up with Vards but so far, I'm pretty sure Iheanacho has created more goal scoring opportunities for Vards than Madders has, no? 

 

Absolutely not blaming Maddison exclusively, though, the whole team is doing it. Quality isn't even the problem, you don't need to be talented to just move, you just need to not be a lazy bastard. 

 

Some of it has to be the manager though, I doubt he tells them not to move, that's on the players but I imagine the distance between them has got to come from him. What is it, an attempt to hold shape above all else and make the game as wide as possible? Alright fine but then go more direct and stop refusing to play a long ball out from the back. 

 

It's like we've got two or three philosophies on the go at once and nobody quite knows how to execute the plan. 

 

In short? ****ing shambles. 

 

 

Edited 28 November 2018 by Finnegan

[The whole world smiles]

1 hour ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Last night's 'performance' (despite the win) being unable to score at home to the side with probably the lowest confidence in the PL and a manager openly being touted as a gonner, has finally turned me against Puel and his methods, after being on the fence for so long.

 

I appreciate Puel has many good points - the pretty football, improved technique and the emphasis on youth. But his football has no penetration and a result we are struggling to beat poor and defensive sides which should be our bread and butter now, and has been for most of our time in the PL.

 

In particular, at home when the emphasis is on us to attack against a side sat back, we look clueless, and this is not due to lacking the personnel - it is Puel's refusal to have the team take risks and push players forward. Southampton had the same gripes under him - and can't him changing now.

 

We have good players and should be looking a better team - it's the manager who is below par. #puelOUT

Because you have been such an Puel loyalist for so long ?

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

You will never, ever be a possession side if players don't move and if the team are too spread out. 

 

I've nearly started a thread about this after a few recent matches but I just think, who cares, why bother? We could all unanimously agree it still doesn't change what Puel coaches. 

 

I don't understand how they don't get it. 

 

Ndidi or Morgan or whoever will have the ball and this is what they see:

 

Chilwell way out extreme left, today's lucky winger about ten yards ahead of him. 

 

Ricardo or Amartey out way extreme right, Ghezzal or whoever ahead of him. 

 

Vardy way, way yo on the shoulder, Maddison or Iheanacho a few yards off him. 

 

Centre half sitting about five metres away behind ball carrier. Other central midfielder about fifteen metres away marked by an opponent. 

 

Every single one of those players are rooted to the spot refusing to move anywhere. Ball carriers options: smash it long (told not to do that) or pass it backwards. Fans all blame ball carrier, occasionally Ndidi will attempt a pass to one of these marked players and everyone will go nuts when we lose it but is it really his fault?

 

A possession based team needs two things: movement and proximity. Pass and move (Liverpool groove), it's not ****ing complicated, most of you probably do it with your mates playing fives ffs. Our lot are just so lazy, they're all standing there waiting for the ball to come to them. 

 

You watch Man City or Arsenal or Liverpool, Barca or even Bournemouth, their players are all close to each other so they've always got a close passing option. It also means that if you lose the ball, two or three players are all near to win it back. 

 

Our best player at this? Shinji Okazaki. He's our only player that's not only constantly moving but he's constantly moving towards the ball carrier and he's constantly looking around him. Watch him next time he plays, he's twitchy, he's looking over his shoulder and around himself at all times, he constantly knows where the ball is coming from and he just looks to quickly move it on again. 

 

It's why he was key in moves like this one in 15/16:

 

Which we did a couple times that year, I'm sure there was another passage similar to that away against Man City. Look how close they all are to one another. 

 

Now watch some footage from last night and how horribly spread out and static we all were. 

 

Maddison is just as guilty as everyone else, he's a kid mind with a lot of time to learn but he needs to be watching Shinji and taking it on board. He might be better at passing, dribbling and trapping a ball than Shinji but he's no way near as good at that spot behind Vardy because he doesn't use his head. We were all very excited about him linking up with Vards but so far, I'm pretty sure Iheanacho has created more goal scoring opportunities for Vards than Madders has, no? 

 

Absolutely not blaming Maddison exclusively, though, the whole team is doing it. Quality isn't even the problem, you don't need to be talented to just move, you just need to not be a lazy bastard. 

 

Some of it has to be the manager though, I doubt he tells them not to move, that's on the players but I imagine the distance between them has got to come from him. What is it, an attempt to hold shape above all else and make the game as wide as possible? Alright fine but then go more direct and stop refusing to play a long ball out from the back. 

 

It's like we've got two or three philosophies on the go at once and nobody quite knows how to execute the plan. 

 

In short? ****ing shambles. 

 

 

The lack of movement has been one of by issues for some time, which I think we mentioned before. It's ludicrous to play a passing game without it.

 

I've also rarely seen a team who constantly seems to not have enough people supporting the strikers, whilst also not having enough cover in defence and being out numbered in midfield. How's that even possible!

 

 

[koop.]

Puel out

Finnegan in 

 

Great post

[Beechey]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The lack of movement has been one of by issues for some time, which I think we mentioned before. It's ludicrous to play a passing game without it.

 

I've also rarely seen a team who constantly seems to not have enough people supporting the strikers, whilst also not having enough cover in defence and being out numbered in midfield. How's that even possible!

 

 

Because the wingers stay wide with the full backs and the midfielders sit together, leaves nobody really in the middle which is why Maddison is always dropping deep. Genuinely think we need a better ball playing midfielder and a better winger (inside forward, whatever) more than a striker right now.

[Out Foxed]

we've always struggled against teams that set up to defend. Our players aren't intelligent enough or the manager's tactics haven't been good enough to work around this. That's not a defense of Puel, just pointing it out.  

[Simoken]

The game was utter bollocks no questions but the way the team bonded at the end and Puel coming over to every player the way he did gives me a good feeling that theres alot we dont know about this man, and the players clearly respect him and thats enough for me to trust in him. Blaming Puel solely for a lack of creativity is borelined retarded and niave. As always patience is needed.

[Ric Flair]

6 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The lack of movement has been one of by issues for some time, which I think we mentioned before. It's ludicrous to play a passing game without it.

 

I've also rarely seen a team who constantly seems to not have enough people supporting the strikers, whilst also not having enough cover in defence and being out numbered in midfield. How's that even possible!

 

 

To sum it up, we're fairly crap at everything. Puel's brought in a style of football that doesn't suit his squad nor has he effected a big enough change with the players hes brought in. It's hard to back him, you have to play to the strengths of your squad or build the squad that plays to what you as a manager know will have the best chance of results. We're caught in the middle of this and it's very frustrating and dull.

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

To sum it up, we're fairly crap at everything. Puel's brought in a style of football that doesn't suit his squad nor has he effected a big enough change with the players hes brought in. It's hard to back him, you have to play to the strengths of your squad or build the squad that plays to what you as a manager know will have the best chance of results. We're caught in the middle of this and it's very frustrating and dull.

We aren't crap, we're average. If we were crap we wouldn't be 10 points above the relegation zone. There are issues, but over stating them doesn't do any good.

[Stevosevic]

The reasons can be discussed but it is worrying. In our recent run we've scored one good goal v Cardiff.

 

We've had blanks v Burnley and Soton. 

Own goal v Arsenal

Wild deflection v West Ham

Penalty v Brighton.   

 

[5waller5]

The lack of movement is certainly an issue.

 

The other BIG issue for me is that our style of attacking play centres around getting the ball to the by-line and getting a cross in. However we don't have a target man that would thrive from this and it's bread and butter for the centre halves. I just don't get it - we literally play to our weakness not strength!