Lack of creativity under Puel

[RoboFox]

He had the same issues during the second half of the season at Southampton. Lots of draws and scraping wins by a goal. 

 

When putting the league position into perspective, we're not doing badly as we all know.

 

But yeah, it's boring as all f**k. 

 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

Just now, RoboFox said:

He had the same issues during the second half of the season at Southampton. Lots of draws and scraping wins by a goal. 

 

When putting the league position into perspective, we're not doing badly as we all know.

 

But yeah, it's boring as all f**k. 

 

Reminds me of a certain season of ours

[Finnegan]

I don't even necessarily agree that this squad "can't" play possession football. 

 

I obviously don't think ANYONE can play like Man City but anyone can move in to space and play a quick pass. 

 

Before almost every game, the team plays Rondo for a good ten minutes (come to think of it, funnily enough have we stopped doing this recently?) We've been doing it since Pearson, possibly before. 

 

They're all capable of quick one, two touch football. They're all top level pros. A couple like Ndidi, Morgan and Amartey are a bit clumsy but the majority of the team are all amply capable. 

 

But taking the technical side of this away, the best, the very best part of movement is that everyone with legs and some cardio can keep it up. It's like high pressure defending, anyone with good fitness can press, you don't need to be the best player in the world. 

 

It's just fitness and organisation which are supposed to be Puel's two key specialities. 

[Ricey]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

To sum it up, we're fairly crap at everything. Puel's brought in a style of football that doesn't suit his squad nor has he effected a big enough change with the players hes brought in. It's hard to back him, you have to play to the strengths of your squad or build the squad that plays to what you as a manager know will have the best chance of results. We're caught in the middle of this and it's very frustrating and dull.

That's a good point. Is this team man-for-man better at keeping possession than last season, or the season before?

 

We've lost Mahrez but gained Maddison, so that probably cancels each other out. We now have Ricardo and Chilwell at full backs, who are undoubtedly better going forward, but are they any better at keeping possession than Simpson or Fuchs?

 

For me this squad is still much more suited to counter-attacking. Maybe not to the level that we used to, but we've gone too far the other way and as a result we aren't reaching anywhere near our potential.

[Horibbly Wrong]

8 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

 

The other BIG issue for me is that our style of attacking play centres around getting the ball to the by-line and getting a cross in. However we don't have a target man that would thrive from this and it's bread and butter for the centre halves. I just don't get it - we literally play to our weakness not strength!

Southampton's defence did very well negating our threat last night, thought their CD's were particularly good. But having said that pinging in low balls to Vardy or Ian would have terrified the tall defenders, it just didnt happen partly due to no overlap from the right and leftbacks

 

 

[les-tah]

1 hour ago, OhYesNdidi said:

It’s not just puel though. The last two managers have had the same problem. & imo, creatively our players aren’t very good

100% .. Puel not exactly sitting there telling them to not create. When we get better players we would be able to create. We currently have 2 very defensive centre mids that are not gonna break lines quick and create space for the next man to create something.

[OhYesNdidi]

4 minutes ago, Ricey said:

That's a good point. Is this team man-for-man better at keeping possession than last season, or the season before?

 

We've lost Mahrez but gained Maddison, so that probably cancels each other out. We now have Ricardo and Chilwell at full backs, who are undoubtedly better going forward, but are they any better at keeping possession than Simpson or Fuchs?

 

For me this squad is still much more suited to counter-attacking. Maybe not to the level that we used to, but we've gone too far the other way and as a result we aren't reaching anywhere near our potential.

Mahrez is much better than Maddison but the two full backs we have now are better. 

[Clarkielcfc]

Sat near to the dugout for a change last night, rather than in the Kop as usual...and one thing I noticed on quite a few times about Puel was, 

 

when in possession, his constant shouts of ‘Quick, Quick, Quick and Move, Move Move’. To which the ball carrier at the time, had literally no options but players standing still. The amount of times then Puel would turn with arms out in disappointment, that there was no movement, no options etc.

For me this is a player problem, we simply just don’t have good enough squad to be playing Quick, high tempo possession football, they arent clever enough to inter change and create triangles etc. Which results then in rushed passes which go wayward or backwards.

 

another pass I’ve noticed is once in a moment of high tempo play, is someone will always make that slow, behind the runner pass, when in truth, we just don’t play enough passes for players to be running onto, they then have to check back, and we rebuild again, but it’s all slowed down. 

 

Everything just needs raising that extra bit, work rate on and off the ball, the ball should never stop moving when a player is in possession, you watch man city, and not only the players but the ball is constantly on the move.

 

 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I don't even necessarily agree that this squad "can't" play possession football. 

 

I obviously don't think ANYONE can play like Man City but anyone can move in to space and play a quick pass. 

 

Before almost every game, the team plays Rondo for a good ten minutes (come to think of it, funnily enough have we stopped doing this recently?) We've been doing it since Pearson, possibly before. 

 

They're all capable of quick one, two touch football. They're all top level pros. A couple like Ndidi, Morgan and Amartey are a bit clumsy but the majority of the team are all amply capable. 

 

But taking the technical side of this away, the best, the very best part of movement is that everyone with legs and some cardio can keep it up. It's like high pressure defending, anyone with good fitness can press, you don't need to be the best player in the world. 

 

It's just fitness and organisation which are supposed to be Puel's two key specialities. 

Fair point.  We can see that most of the team is fairly good at passing the ball around, we're loads better at ''controlling games'' than we used to be.  Being clinical with our passing in the final third is an issue, largely due I think to the inexperience of the youth playing behind Vardy.  They are not always composed and not always making the best decisions.... usual for young players

 

Very clear to see last night, he doesnt get picked out as much as he should and his runs go un-rewarded more without a Mahrez who was a good foil for him

 

Still think this is a matter of time until we get a bit more experience and cohesion between the players behind the striker

 

Impatience is still the main issue for a lot of fans I think. Its still a relatively short time and our squad is a bit of a patchwork

Edited 28 November 2018 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

[l444ry]

This *lack of creativity* criticism is a bit overplayed. In fairness to Puel, the side has battered teams and created good goal scoring opportunities for some 45 mins spells.

[StriderHiryu]

6 minutes ago, Clarkielcfc said:

Sat near to the dugout for a change last night, rather than in the Kop as usual...and one thing I noticed on quite a few times about Puel was, 

 

when in possession, his constant shouts of ‘Quick, Quick, Quick and Move, Move Move’. To which the ball carrier at the time, had literally no options but players standing still. The amount of times then Puel would turn with arms out in disappointment, that there was no movement, no options etc.

For me this is a player problem, we simply just don’t have good enough squad to be playing Quick, high tempo possession football, they arent clever enough to inter change and create triangles etc. Which results then in rushed passes which go wayward or backwards.

 

another pass I’ve noticed is once in a moment of high tempo play, is someone will always make that slow, behind the runner pass, when in truth, we just don’t play enough passes for players to be running onto, they then have to check back, and we rebuild again, but it’s all slowed down. 

 

Everything just needs raising that extra bit, work rate on and off the ball, the ball should never stop moving when a player is in possession, you watch man city, and not only the players but the ball is constantly on the move.

 

 

That's interesting to hear and offers some consolation. That confirms IMO that the manager doesn't want us to play slow football, but more that our players aren't that good technically to play it as fast as they need to. 

Look at Spain's defeat to Russia in the World Cup. In that match they had tons of possesion but created little and paid the ultimate price. It was possesion for possesion's sake! So that is a possible style that Puel might be wanting us to play. But I am convinced it's not and we just aren't adapting to the style yet. 

To be honest Claude could do him a world of good by saying this in his press conferences. E.g. "We are doing OK but we need to be quicker! More one-twos, more passing between the lines! If the team can do it I will buy them the finest Croque-Monsieur!"

One can only dream lol.

[fairbanksh]

Puel seems incapable of fitting tactics round the teams strengths and weaknesses it's his way or no way. 

This is not good management and for long periods in most games the football is dire

Yes we are mid table in a poor league( apart from top 5)

Supporters of his so called plan remind me of * The Emperors New Clothes*. It's negative inflexible and really boring most of the time

Squad fans and hierachy deserve better

[Hanan96]

2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

That's interesting to hear and offers some consolation. That confirms IMO that the manager doesn't want us to play slow football, but more that our players aren't that good technically to play it as fast as they need to. 

Look at Spain's defeat to Russia in the World Cup. In that match they had tons of possesion but created little and paid the ultimate price. It was possesion for possesion's sake! So that is a possible style that Puel might be wanting us to play. But I am convinced it's not and we just aren't adapting to the style yet. 

To be honest Claude could do him a world of good by saying this in his press conferences. E.g. "We are doing OK but we need to be quicker! More one-twos, more passing between the lines! If the team can do it I will buy them the finest Croque-Monsieur!"

One can only dream lol.

Seems someone did improve our defence with a pizza 

 

Could that food improve our attack? Interesting 

[Babylon]

24 minutes ago, Ricey said:

That's a good point. Is this team man-for-man better at keeping possession than last season, or the season before?

 

We've lost Mahrez but gained Maddison, so that probably cancels each other out. We now have Ricardo and Chilwell at full backs, who are undoubtedly better going forward, but are they any better at keeping possession than Simpson or Fuchs?

 

For me this squad is still much more suited to counter-attacking. Maybe not to the level that we used to, but we've gone too far the other way and as a result we aren't reaching anywhere near our potential.

Ricardo can pass a ball, so I'd say he's better. But he's far more attacking, so he might lose the ball more because he's taking attacking risks, rather than passing the ball along the line.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

With the notable exception of @The whole world smiles some really insightful replies. People can say we're mid-table and safe but in a league this weak it's nothing to shout about and Puel has had time to bring in players that suit his style - it's the style that's the issue.

[Xen]

55 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

You will never, ever be a possession side if players don't move and if the team are too spread out. 

[..]

Agree with this whole post, although I thought Albrighton at least was trying to make the runs and keep things moving when he came on - incidentally that's exactly when we started looking a little bit more attacking. Still, he was frequently throwing his hands up in the air after his quick pass-and-go moves were just ignored in favour of a safe ball between Soyuncu/Simpson/Ndidi, for instance.

 

Puel clearly recognises this and you can see he's getting frustrated with the lack of movement. For whatever reason, though, that isn't getting through to the players.

 

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Xen said:

Agree with this whole post, although I thought Albrighton at least was trying to make the runs and keep things moving when he came on - incidentally that's exactly when we started looking a little bit more attacking. Still, he was frequently throwing his hands up in the air after his quick pass-and-go moves were just ignored in favour of a safe ball between Soyuncu/Simpson/Ndidi, for instance.

 

Puel clearly recognises this and you can see he's getting frustrated with the lack of movement. For whatever reason, though, that isn't getting through to the players.

 

 

Albrighton and Okazaki were definitely an improvement on Iheanacho and Diabate when they came on, their movement off the ball was infinitely better. 

 

It doesn't matter though if one or two are doing it when nobody else joins in. 

[Hammo]

When we play against well organised defences and space is at a premium, yes, we need more movement but above all we have to vary our tactics in trying to turn and unsettle the defenders and put them under pressure. Drawing fouls and having deflected shots go for corners etc. Patiently probing and knocking the ball from side to side is generally too easy to defend against.

[HighPeakFox]

It was a difficult watch last night I must say. In all these debates, it really doesn't help characterising people such as me as very pro, just because I'm not totally anti. I can see there are issues, I just don't much like the way everything gets so polarised.

[kingfox]

At least we're creating more chances in games than what we saw at the back end of last season.

 

Playing through the middle has never been our best forte, it doesn't help matters when we have central midfielders who want too much time on the ball, Mendy, Ndidi and Iborra are far too slow in possession, at least Mendy has the tendency to look forward though and can actually pass a fvcking ball more than five yards.

 

Our movement always comes from wide areas though, always has done, we've always been a team who like to get crosses into the box, because of this it's no surprise to see Chilwell and Gray improving this season. Ricardo too will always make himself available in a forward position and you know what we're going to get from Albrighton.

 

But of course when we get it out wide we have limited options in the box, majority of the time it's Vardy against three defenders, he has no chance of getting on the end of anything. We never have enough runners in the box, Maddison doesn't do it, Iheanacho is lazy, the central midfielders never do it because they are defensive minded, our players just don't commit themselves. Chilwell, Ricardo, Gray and Albrighton get in good positions yet 90% of the time they can't pick anybody out because we don't have enough players making runs into the box.

 

We are far too stagnant when playing through the middle, so everything has to come from wide areas; however our passages of play usually come to nothing because our wingers are hitting crosses into no man's land.

 

On Monday night football they were analysing the Fulham game from the weekend and the main difference that Ranieri has already made, when Fulham played the ball forward they had runners committing themselves, I think it was Sessegnon who had the ball out wide and you had Mitrovic, Cairney and Schurrle all in the box anticipating the cross which they then scored from. 

 

This is something we don't do enough of, hence why we aren't creating enough, the likes of Chilwell, Ricardo and Albrighton could easily get double figures of assists this season if they had more options to pick out. 

[HighPeakFox]

18 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

It was a difficult watch last night I must say. In all these debates, it really doesn't help characterising people such as me as very pro, just because I'm not totally anti. I can see there are issues, I just don't much like the way everything gets so polarised.

I very nearly cited you @Babylon, knowing you suffer the same nonsense.

[m4DD0gg]

Its like watching paint dry so boring to watch.

[Master Fox]

It’s pretty clear we miss Mahrez. After having him play for us for 5 years it was always going to be a tough transition. Under the circumstances I think we’re doing alright. 

Edited 28 November 2018 by Master Fox

[Ted Maul]

The movement point is a good one- it's been my biggest concern for some time. You can tell a lot about a side from how the move off the ball and we're pretty static. I also said before the season that we were a quality winger short of having a good first 11 and it has proven to be the case. We lost Mahrez and expected Gray to step it up by a few levels, which was never going to happen. If we make one or two quality forward signings in January, things will improve.

 

In terms of the Puel in/out debate, I'm far from sold but the positives still outweigh the negatives in my opinion. With the money we're shelling out on the club's infrastructure over the next few years, stability is imperative and I've seen more than enough to know that we're not going down any time soon under Puel. 

[Babylon]

16 minutes ago, Master Fox said:

It’s pretty clear we miss a Mahrez. After having him play for us for 5 years it was always going to be a tough transition. Under the circumstances I think we’re doing alright. 

Indeed, that bit of magic that turns a 0-0 to a 1-0, a shame we lost him in the summer. A top class winger would make a huge difference at the moment. We've picked up the slack in other areas thankfully, so we aren't suffering too much in terms of being in trouble. But he's the sort of player that can turn 10th place into 6th or 7th and they are few and far between.