Lack of creativity under Puel

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

For much of our first season in the Premiership your memory is completely fallacious. From late March - May 2015, absolutely. 

I rather like the term ‘fallacious’ and intend to use it in future conversations. Essentially it means ‘bollox’ I guess?

[foxinsocks]

23 minutes ago, sdb said:

 

I think the stat is misleading. It makes us sound like we’re a creative juggernaut when actually we just play side to side and eventually throw it into the box where Vardy is being outnumbered 5-1. There’s no intricate or purposeful play centrally and we totally waste Vardy’s best attribute, which is stupid even if we are trying to broaden our skill set long term. 

 

Ultimately im bored out my mind watching us. Surely the manager can loosen the shackles a little bit?! 

This.

Last night their big no4 took care of every thing.  There is no point in us floating balls into the box.

 

So what type of thing fo we need to do.

1. Early diagonal balls when defenders are running back and can't attact the ball. Ricardo can do this. ..chilly need to learn it.

2 we go to bye line and then pull the ball back to the d for an arriving player to shoot.

3. Both these mean getting players fwd at the point the ball goes to the wing... snd this means increase our fitness and play at pace.  Imo we have lost our fitness edge. .. maybe the trsing has changed

5.give up on silva and iheanacho. ..sorry but they aint going to make it...ever.  Get a coach  to develop grays left foot crossing.  

6.we need to mix it up more.  Both lastnight and Burnley played a high line yet we didn't put a ball over the top last night till 75 mns. By mixing it up the defenders have to hedge and this creates more space.

 

But deep down the helicopter crash made us put aside the moans about puel.  I like that he gives yoof a  chance... i dont like his inability to change things in games when it aint working. ... and that he aint no leader. Last night i saw us return to the uncreative no shots on goal side of our first 10 games ...

 And i remembered why i dont think puel will last. .. nice guy...poor manager

Edited 28 November 2018 by foxinsocks

[Mr Mister]

42 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

That’s bs imo, we were worse before he came in and in fairness Mahrez carried us October- jan in 17/18 season which pretty much kept us up. 

Then we became crap after Jan 2018 when Puel's dull tactics kicked in and ruined our season. If we continued playing attacking football, we could have pushed for a top 6 finish last season. Attacking football improves players and brings out the creativity in players.

Edited 28 November 2018 by Mr Mister

[sacreblueits442]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

Well the league table and all the stats say we are average, so my opinion is based on fact really. 

 

Perhaps if the league is as shit as you think, you should consider there is more to it than it just being Puel's fault if literally everyone is shit. Expecting us to be beyond everyone else and buck a league wide trend is just crazy.

.... 2016!!

[Stadt]

He's had more than enough time and money to resolve issues, I think saying we need x player in y position is a dangerous game and you fall in to the trap of routinely needing 'just one more' player, you don't need outstanding players to coach possession football. Quique Setien at Betis (they're not great this season tbf) has his side playing great football with a squad not anymore talented than ours but where a coach can make a huge difference is by teaching players to make specific movements, time runs well, play third man runs, attract pressure to play in to space and so on. We don't take enough risks in our play and the general pattern is we're funnelled wide and we put in a ball which is very easy to read and the opposition anticipate it.

 

Going wide is the symptom of our issue of being unable to create enough centrally, Maddison can take the blame somewhat as well as Mendy and Ndidi but we're quite directionless in possession and unfortunately I can't see it changing. I think (I can't be certain, obviously) Puel's attacking philosophy is to give our players unbridled freedom in the opposition half which leads to a lack of cohesive movement and attacking patterns. Everton probably have a better squad than us but ours is comparable to theirs but they look so much more dynamic because Silva isn't as risk averse as Puel. Another clue is that it takes us going behind to look threatening because there's nothing to lose, it's the same issue Man United have because Mourinho is similarly cagey.

Edited 29 November 2018 by Stadt

[Dan]

I echo a lot of the previous thoughts, such as the one above and the post by Finnegan on the first page (fantastic post that was, agree with just about every word). I still don't think this as a system particularly suits our players or the league. These's a serious lack of penetration in this system, it feels like a system built to keep the ball above all else. We haven't got the quality to be able to beat sides effectively doing this.

 

The majority of our goals this season have come from counter attacks or set pieces. We have very seldom managed to carve a stubborn team open with a passing move.

 

Very little has changed since last season in all honesty.

[KingsX]

Good thread.  My faith is restored that people who want this club to succeed can discuss its (and its manager’s) limitations in a constructive way.

 

This season's curve has disappointed.  At Old Trafford, we seemed to be turning the corner with high possession, quick passing, and Maddison already orchestrating sweet music.  Then came the “softer” stretch against teams that sit deep -- and we hit quicksand.

 

BUT -- let's avoid reading too much into our November football.  It has been a lost month, a write-off, and anybody who doesn’t realize why has a child’s understanding of life.

 

There's a dent in my optimism.  But I'd rather judge Puel on the next few months.  This thread dissects the shortcomings on the pitch.  Back to “normal”, let’s see if he adapts the attacking tactics to suit a mixed bag of players … gradually gets more out of Gray, Maddison and Ricardo … and FFS gets us playing more consistently.  Life doesn’t begin at 50’ .

 

We need to know by this spring whether he is the man to take us forward.  Not pick a weekend to pull the trigger to gratify anybody’s impulses.  We are not bleeding to death; we don’t need the damned tourniquet.

Edited 29 November 2018 by KingsX

[Babylon]

8 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.... 2016!!

So we're basing everything we expect from a complete one off 5000-1 freak?

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, KingsX said:

Good thread.  My faith is restored that people who want this club to succeed can discuss its (and its manager’s) limitations in a constructive way.

 

This season's curve has disappointed.  At Old Trafford, we seemed to be turning the corner with high possession, quick passing, and Maddison already orchestrating sweet music.  Then came the “softer” stretch against teams that sit deep -- and we hit quicksand.

 

BUT -- let's avoid reading too much into our November football.  It has been a lost month, a write-off, and anybody who doesn’t realize why has a child’s understanding of life.

 

There's a dent in my optimism.  But I'd rather judge Puel on the next few months.  This thread dissects the shortcomings on the pitch.  Back to “normal”, let’s see if he adapts the attacking tactics to suit a mixed bag of players … gradually gets more out of Gray, Maddison and Ricardo … and FFS gets us playing more consistently.  Life doesn’t begin at 50’ .

 

We need to know by this spring whether he is the man to take us forward.  Not pick a weekend to pull the trigger to gratify anybody’s impulses.  We are not bleeding to death; we don’t need the damned tourniquet.

He's got the season for me barring any disasters, I see little to gain from dumping him now. He's doing a solid if unspectacular job so far, get a few more out in January and invest in a serious attacking talent and go from there.

 

People moan saying "oh Maguire will want to leave", players will want to leave no matter where we finish if the likes of Man City, Liverpool, United come in for them, because we're Leicester. Winning the league didn't keep Kante, we could have a bloody great season and finish sixth and we'll still lose our players. Worrying about them going is pointless.

[Simoken]

17 minutes ago, Babylon said:

So we're basing everything we expect from a complete one off 5000-1 freak?

Unfortunately winning a title injects this kind of unreasonable and unconvincable fan who expect a top 5 finish and running for another title win, anywhere below this expectation invites frustration.

[mod hero]

41 minutes ago, Simoken said:

Unfortunately winning a title injects this kind of unreasonable and unconvincable fan who expect a top 5 finish and running for another title win, anywhere below this expectation invites frustration.

It’s these sort of posts that are getting on my nerves.

 

None of us are expecting top 5. This is a sport that is supposed to be entertaining. We want something to get us up off our seat and get us excitited.

 

even getting to by line and pulling the ball back for someone to shoot would infinitely better than what we are being served up.

 

This style is so dull and uninspiring and has been for a year now.

 

im dreading the Spurs game. And Watford for that matter.

 

There is no progress.

[The Doctor]

12 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Yeah, 15th biggest wage bill in Europe but we daren't get upset by under achievement.

Are we underachieving much though? I assume you're referring to this: 

 

 

Which straight away knocks us into 7th, and Everton with their recent spending will be right around us. So, we're targeting 7th/8th based on wage bill, and we're 3 points off it, could easily be there come 5pm Saturday, even despite the upheaval of the last month...

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, Mr Mister said:

The problem is Puel's dull, defensive tactics. It has killed any creative, attacking ability that the team had.

Another person who seems to have forgotten the last two managers before Puel.

 

16/17 - 13 games in 16 goals

17/18 - 13 games in 17 goals

18/19 - 13 games in 18 goals

 

We've scored more goals than the starts to the previous two seasons, having also lost perhaps the finest attacking / creative talent we've had.

[Babylon]

13 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Yeah, 15th biggest wage bill in Europe but we daren't get upset by under achievement.

Which means we'll have about the 8th or maybe even 9th largest wage bill in the premier league after Everton and West Ham pumped more in. You can't compare Europe as we pay more for less over here.

[Ric Flair]

13 hours ago, Mr Mister said:

The problem is Puel's dull, defensive tactics. It has killed any creative, attacking ability that the team had.

We aren't a defensive team at all, don't mistake not creating much at times as being down to the instruction of our manager it's just at times we have unsuitable players trying to break down teams who sit back against us. I have many criticisms of Puel but he isn't a defensive manager. Look at the amount of goals we scored at times last season, it's just there are spells where we struggle to score as well so it's wildly inconsistent. This year the goals are drying up which is easy to see why and Puel needs to try and change style for the short term to improve this.

[Ric Flair]

28 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Which means we'll have about the 8th or maybe even 9th largest wage bill in the premier league after Everton and West Ham pumped more in. You can't compare Europe as we pay more for less over here.

You're right we do, however we continue to waste a lot of money so I can still be annoyed with what we have at our disposal and how we use it. We'll always pay a premium here but we're not even remotely getting value for money on most of our signings in the last few seasons.

[Babylon]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You're right we do, however we continue to waste a lot of money so I can still be annoyed with what we have at our disposal and how we use it. We'll always pay a premium here but we're not even remotely getting value for money on most of our signings in the last few seasons.

Of course, but that's not really Puel's fault particularly. Those failures stretch back through several managers and scouting departments. Puel is having to deal with the fall out of us buying frankly a load of old tosh. We seem to be getting slightly better value now, but the squad is still littered with average, expensive players.

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

You're right we do, however we continue to waste a lot of money so I can still be annoyed with what we have at our disposal and how we use it. We'll always pay a premium here but we're not even remotely getting value for money on most of our signings in the last few seasons.

Ok, but Puels signings:

Diabate - cheap kid, potential

Evans - relatively cheap, presumably an old head as a stop gap while the other two develop

Benkovic - young, rave reviews in Scotland, good potential

Soyuncu - young, regular international for a middling nation but again potential

Ricardo - needs to learn the league a bit but he's looked good going forward, again young and room to develop

Maddison - young, full of talent and potential, bit inconsistent

Ward - good back up keeper, maybe overpriced tbf

Ghezzal - bit more experienced winger, probably too much

 

With the exception of Evans, Ward and Ghezzal, where you can about see a justification, it's been about buying potential. What we're still paying for is Shakespeare and Ranieri chucking 20/30m at 28+ year olds (Slimani, Silva, Iborra etc.) and mega contracts for relatively average players like Simpson.

[turtmcfly]

15 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I rather like the term ‘fallacious’ and intend to use it in future conversations. Essentially it means ‘bollox’ I guess?

It's a great word, but @Line-X's spelling sucks. It's 'fellatious'.

 

 

Edited 29 November 2018 by turtmcfly

[cropstonfox]

its Fallacious

[Fox 4 Life]

3 hours ago, mod hero said:

It’s these sort of posts that are getting on my nerves.

 

None of us are expecting top 5. This is a sport that is supposed to be entertaining. We want something to get us up off our seat and get us excitited.

 

even getting to by line and pulling the ball back for someone to shoot would infinitely better than what we are being served up.

 

This style is so dull and uninspiring and has been for a year now.

 

im dreading the Spurs game. And Watford for that matter.

 

There is no progress.

And more to the point there is a clear precedent from his Southampton days so it's not just a transition phase. This is here to stay.

[chapero82]

I bet you if we was playing amazing exciting football fanboys would be saying I told you so.. honestly he’s had a pre season to sort things out and things are just as bad as last season! 

Edited 29 November 2018 by chapero82

[Fox 4 Life]

4 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

I bet you if we was playing amazing exciting football fanboys would be saying I told you so.. honestly he’s had a pretty season to sort things out and things are just as bad as last season! 

I would argue worse. We have beaten poor teams unconvincingly and in the past few weeks have struggled to score against Burnley and Southampton who are struggling in a big way. 

 

I would say the only impressive result/performance this season was Newcastle away. Even Wolves at home we were bang average but somehow won.

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, Fox 4 Life said:

I would argue worse. We have beaten poor teams unconvincingly and in the past few weeks have struggled to score against Burnley and Southampton who are struggling in a big way. 

 

I would say the only impressive result/performance this season was Newcastle away. Even Wolves at home we were bang average but somehow won.

Southampton was with 8 changes to the normal line up and Burnley was after trecking half way around the world for the funeral. We still should have won comfortably and would have if we'd converted the numerous chances we had (22 shots at goal to their 6).

[Fox 4 Life]

Looking at the next 6, I genuinely think we will get a maximum of 5 points, if that.

 

Watford (H) 1

Fulham (A) 1/3

Spurs (H) 0

Palace (A) 0/1

Chelsea (A) 0

Man City (H) 0