Lack of creativity under Puel

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Which is why he's got 19 goals in 39 league games under Puel? Made him completely ineffective yet still a 1 in 2 strike rate... Not to mention he's missed 3 or 4 chances you'd expect him to put away already this season.

Yes but that's his game to score goals, contributes precious little else to the team, build up etc. And he's not been able to adapt his game to play anything other than counter attack against a high line defence.

[yks]

2 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Yes but that's his game to score goals, contributes precious little else to the team, build up etc. And he's not been able to adapt his game to play anything other than counter attack against a high line defence.

Have you read what you quoted or watched the games.
It says he scores as often as before even if we don't play counter-attack anymore.

Anyway, I admit he's not very good since the start of the season but it was the same thing 2 years ago so I'm not really worried.

[The Doctor]

22 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Yes but that's his game to score goals, contributes precious little else to the team, build up etc. And he's not been able to adapt his game to play anything other than counter attack against a high line defence.

Whether he gets involved in the build up as much as the striker in this system should is besides the point - it was claimed he's been made ineffective by Puel, his goals return shows that's not true

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

On 28/11/2018 at 10:33, Beechey said:

So your argument basically is that Pearson is better because he survived in the Premier League for a season, because winning the Championship, getting to playoffs and winning League One (lol) is worth nothing really.

 

Are you serious? Fvcking hell

 

We didn't have incredible squads for any of the Championship, League One or Premier League survival seasons, it was great management under Pearson that transformed us from League One to Premier League survival in a pretty short space of time. He had to build a squad twice

 

And yeah I'd say finishing 14th in 2014/15 after being bottom for so long is more impressive than anything I've seen under Puel. That was his first season in the Premier League with a bunch of players with no PL experience, bereft of confidence after losing so many games that we'd actually played well in, then just turned it around and pretty much battered everyone for the last 9 games. If it wasn't for us winning the PL the next season, that'd still be the story people remember about Leicester City

[Arriba Los Zorros]

2 hours ago, yks said:

Have you read what you quoted or watched the games.
It says he scores as often as before even if we don't play counter-attack anymore.

Anyway, I admit he's not very good since the start of the season but it was the same thing 2 years ago so I'm not really worried.

No I typed blindfolded and watch Barcelona every week but choose to post here to talk about a random mid-table Premier League team, give me a break.

 

Vardy struggles to get involved in games unless the other team are pressing high up the pitch and playing a high defensive line, and I can't think of many goals he's scored that haven't been penalties or on the break. Or against deep-lying defensive teams for that matter.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

Whether he gets involved in the build up as much as the striker in this system should is besides the point - it was claimed he's been made ineffective by Puel, his goals return shows that's not true

I think the point is that our whole play used to be built around him, now he's a peripheral or isolated figure in most of our games, you can't just look at stats constantly.

[The Doctor]

32 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

I think the point is that our whole play used to be built around him, now he's a peripheral or isolated figure in most of our games, you can't just look at stats constantly.

Ok, well then arguing that he's been reduced in effectiveness (he hasn't, that's a fact) because he's not the only edge in the team anymore is nothing short of monumentally stupid. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Whether he gets involved in the build up as much as the striker in this system should is besides the point - it was claimed he's been made ineffective by Puel, his goals return shows that's not true

All he does is score goals.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

24 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Ok, well then arguing that he's been reduced in effectiveness (he hasn't, that's a fact) because he's not the only edge in the team anymore is nothing short of monumentally stupid. 

Try reading my post again, you can't base everything on stats. 

[The Doctor]

39 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Try reading my post again, you can't base everything on stats. 

Except you can base "is Vardy still effective" on stats because it's looking at his output, something that is easily measurable

[Tom12345]

Puel wants us to play more like Man City when we should aim more towards Liverpool. Suits our players better.

[sacreblueits442]

15 hours ago, Babylon said:

So we're basing everything we expect from a complete one off 5000-1 freak?

.... no. 

 Your post states that you are dealing in facts. It is a fact that we won the league. 

 "Bucking the trend ' would have been finishing 5th,4th,3rd or 2nd.

Is what you believe to be un-realistic, the fact that we won it? 

[Tom12345]

This is why Fuchs is wasted. He actually supports our previous direct football well. He is a decent crosser of the ball from distance.

 

Now we slowly build up and allow opposition to sit back. To break things down in this way, you need world class players like Man City to consistently break teams down. Unfortunately, while we have a good team, we don’t apart from IMO Vardy.

[Beechey]

4 hours ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

 

Are you serious? Fvcking hell

 

We didn't have incredible squads for any of the Championship, League One or Premier League survival seasons, it was great management under Pearson that transformed us from League One to Premier League survival in a pretty short space of time. He had to build a squad twice

 

And yeah I'd say finishing 14th in 2014/15 after being bottom for so long is more impressive than anything I've seen under Puel. That was his first season in the Premier League with a bunch of players with no PL experience, bereft of confidence after losing so many games that we'd actually played well in, then just turned it around and pretty much battered everyone for the last 9 games. If it wasn't for us winning the PL the next season, that'd still be the story people remember about Leicester City

So you're happy to allow Pearson the opportunity to build two squads over five to six seasons, but not allow Puel to build his first? Where does the perspective come from on this forum? Why are we now so happy to allow Pearson the entire 2014-15 season despite us being in last place for so long (I'd argue possibly rightfully also after his performances in previous seasons), but not Puel his second season despite us finishing much higher in his first season in charge (whilst being in a very stable position)? That's my argument. Why is it always the need for immediate gratification when that just isn't sustainable? Why can we not allow a manager the time they need (like Pearson got!) to build their squads?  Pearson was allowed time and he got the club, like you said, from League One to the Premier League. Managers generally stay for one to three years in this league, our manager has been here just over one year. Maybe he'll be sacked, maybe he won't, but if he keeps us in the running for a Europa League spot, why would anyone want him gone based on that record? Obviously I know his style isn't everyone's cup of tea, and that's a valid reason to not want him here - but positionally alone, I think he's doing well.

 

I don't really mean to insult Pearson in the way it might have come across, but perspective is needed. And ever-so-eagerly jumping to his defence at every opportunity  (I'm not claiming you are doing so here), which happens all too frequently on this forum frankly isn't. He was a good manager, he builds a great team ethic and obviously had a great connection with the squad and staff, but he couldn't quite hack it in this league with his own squad which he built over a number of years (and unfortunately is struggling in Belgium's second division - which might not be fair on him since it's a pretty new country to him and he doesn't really understand the language as well as he might... remind you of someone?). I don't dislike him, I just don't hold him up as the messiah of football managers that it seems people often do, I wouldn't want him back as manager unless we were relegated because he is clearly a great manager at that level.

 

Puel is in his second season with us, he's had just over one year here, and we've achieved I believe our third ever highest Premier League finish and look likely to meet or exceed that again this season. The season prior we finished 12th, an improvement of three places and that's after Mahrez went missing for a stretch in the most critical time in our season and after he came in part-way through with us being in 18th place. Possibly more importantly, what makes anyone believe we'd ever get anyone better? Look at our previous managers, and look at who teams around us are also appointing or have appointed. If Jardim offered himself to us, I'd probably snap him up, but be realistic. When we sacked Shakespeare every high profile manager we were linked with came to nothing. Frankly we'd probably be more likely to appoint a Mark Hughes than a Leonardo Jardim. We're not a European heavyweight, we're a mid-table Premier League side in a mid-sized city, who are in their most successful ever period in this league, which also only happens to be their fifth consecutive season from their current spell.

Edited 30 November 2018 by Beechey

[Albert]

5 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Yes but that's his game to score goals, contributes precious little else to the team, build up etc. And he's not been able to adapt his game to play anything other than counter attack against a high line defence.

 

7 hours ago, lgfualol said:

Vardy makes himself ineffective by standing like a statue and only being able to play one way, even when teams park the bus.

Jamie Vardy “contributes precious little else to the team” & “stands like a statue”....

 

I need some time off from all this. It’s not worth the stress. 

 

Have a great Xmas everyone 

[matty98]

We are capable of being creative, we have the players, we just start games way too negatively, once we've conceded we tend to play so much better

[Beechey]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

 

Jamie Vardy “contributes precious little else to the team” & “stands like a statue”....

 

I need some time off from all this. It’s not worth the stress. 

 

Have a great Xmas everyone 

I think the point might be that he waits on the shoulder too much for this style sometimes

[NaijaFox]

14 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

not ment with bad intentions but....

That don't forget is your perspective..not fact!!

With Mendy and Ndidi,Iborra-Silva.  one could believe Maddison was the young quality Link  the would mean getting the next fitting piece of the midfield

Jigsaw,no manager would think or plan,that from those former mentioned,would be the weaker links!!!! Though Mendy is slowly proving he is finding

his PL feet,not one of them has become a central cornerstone,to our automatic 1st choicers...

It can't be expected that Maddison was suddenly going to own the midfield,all by his lonesome!!

 

Many fans getting high n mighty,about our failings in the recruitment side of the club,and to be honest,since the title year,we have had quite an high %

Of mis-hits.!!,but it's easy to be wise afterwards...blah blah!!

Those mis-hits have,with aging legends ,and from above,the  sympathetic loyalties has not put us into trouble as such,

but as left us with a too weak a midfield,and down on a 2nd top or even decent striker...!!

That is not Puel s fault...!!

 

 

But Madders is NOT expected (nor required) to “own the midfield all by his lonesome”.

 

Under Puel, it appears that he is expected to provide the bulk of the creativity (which I agree with Gillies Apprentice might be turning out thus far to be a “misjudgment”), but midfield is more than just creativity and he has not been tasked with any of the other less glamorous aspects of the midfield (the water carrying and destroyer responsibilities). Frankly, the issues with our midfield lies less with the non-possession phase (contrary to your contention, Mendy and Ndidi both do a steady enough job of disruption, winning possession, protecting the back-line, dropping back to cover when Maguire ventures forward, supporting the full/wing-backs, and carrying the ball for the proverbial 5 years and a cloud of dust) but considerably more with the possession phase whereupon the primary creative responsibilities lie with Maddison (occasionally Iheanacho) and the wide players. The latter bunch are just not creating enough.

Edited 30 November 2018 by NaijaFox

[lgfualol]

6 hours ago, Albert said:

 

Jamie Vardy “contributes precious little else to the team” & “stands like a statue”....

 

I need some time off from all this. It’s not worth the stress. 

 

Have a great Xmas everyone 

Lol why would you let stupid forum posts stress you out so much.

 

I probably worded it in an exaggerated way, but he just seems to be in the constantly in the middle of the two CBs in our home games. Not surprising he doesnt get many chances if the other team are parking the bus.

[MC Prussian]

Thinking about it, I'd say part of the problem still is our recruitment and the squad on the whole.

 

We have little to no creativity coming from midfield. For some strange reason, Iborra (31 next January) and Silva (30 next March) are more or less completely left out of the squad, Gray still is a little bit too selfish on the left side and Maddison alone can't cut it - it's a massive blow should he be injured or - like right now - be suspended. We often fail to impose ourselves in the middle of the park and give up possession rather easily, we still fail to control games when we need to, it's all a bit random.

We don't seem to know whether we still want to rely on counter attacks or change to a possession-based attacking system.

 

There's just not enough oomph in midfield, and a part of our back four is slowly, but steadily aging and past it, that's why I hope we'll see more of Söyüncü and Benkovic alongside Maguire soon. Morgan needs to retire or move a level down if he still wants to continue. Fuchs is better off in the MLS next season, Benalouane (31 next March) may have to look elsewhere, too. And what's the case with Danny Simpson? 32 next January. Just like Matty James and Andy King, a squad member that hardly or never features. Although In James' case, he's just a very unfortunate constant sick note.

 

The squad comes across as not balanced enough. We only have one recognized right winger/right midfielder in Ghezzal, who doesn't strike me as PL material, too lightweight and highly dependable on his left foot, a ghost that often goes missing, with little to no impact on the game.

 

And the lack of midfield options or rather, the current use of our midfielders in Puel's system is also the main reason we're having so much troubles scoring from open play. No supplies for our forwards. The striker situation in itself is equally dire, as seen with Vardy out or on the bench we become toothless up front. Okazaki is 32 now and ought to switch to another league sooner than later, he's become rather ineffective. Loved him for his contributions in the past, but we need a replacement so dearly.

 

Need to improve in all areas, except goalkeepers.

[Babylon]

8 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.... no. 

 Your post states that you are dealing in facts. It is a fact that we won the league. 

 "Bucking the trend ' would have been finishing 5th,4th,3rd or 2nd.

Is what you believe to be un-realistic, the fact that we won it? 

Yes I'm dealing in facts, we're currently average. The league says it, the stats say it, the performances and results say it. When we won the league we weren't average, but that was a complete one off. Anyone basing their current expectations on that event is deluded.

[BoyJones]

What is wrong with being average? If you want an all conquering team that plays fantastic football, makes no mistakes, then you ain't a true Leicester City supporter. That's not what we do and personally think not the way forward. Relegation fights, promotion seasons are exciting. Any fan who would rather emulate Everton's last 20 boring years - you are SB's. 

 

I know the current 21st century thinking is everything on a plate, no need to work for any rewards and if city don't perform to perfection they are slagged off my the majority of so called fans. We seem to be getting more and more posters who just love critisizing, although they are probably crap in their own jobs. 

 

Personally, I would take a relegation season to purge this forum of the fair weather fans that have infiltrated and undermined the club. If you can only live with constant success and perfection, just clear off - you are not wanted. 

[Nick]

On 28/11/2018 at 13:18, MattP said:

Many reasons I think, most of them covered in here. We have very few players who can play a defence splitting forward pass, not much creation in the centre of midfield, we have a back four and NDidi and Mendy which means we are starting with 7 defensive players out 11 on the pitch and that's going to be negative even if your full backs are bombing forward.

Why we play two defensive midfielders at home to teams like Burnley I have no idea. No need for it at all. I'm still on the fence with Puel but the football is intolerable at times and it's baffling watching what he's trying to do with the players he has.

This.

[Nick]

6 hours ago, BoyJones said:

What is wrong with being average? If you want an all conquering team that plays fantastic football, makes no mistakes, then you ain't a true Leicester City supporter. That's not what we do and personally think not the way forward. Relegation fights, promotion seasons are exciting. Any fan who would rather emulate Everton's last 20 boring years - you are SB's. 

 

I know the current 21st century thinking is everything on a plate, no need to work for any rewards and if city don't perform to perfection they are slagged off my the majority of so called fans. We seem to be getting more and more posters who just love critisizing, although they are probably crap in their own jobs. 

 

Personally, I would take a relegation season to purge this forum of the fair weather fans that have infiltrated and undermined the club. If you can only live with constant success and perfection, just clear off - you are not wanted. 

I don’t think anybody is demanding constant success or perfection are they?

 

Most of the people being critical of Puel on FT are posters and ST holders who have been watching football for the past 20 plus years not the last 3...

 

Making sweeping comments about those people not being good at their own jobs is just a bit weird ~ presume you’d been drinking by the time that rant was typed!

 

Supporting Leicester has always been a rollercoaster and that’s cool but If we are going for fairground comparatives we’re perhaps a bit more Gullivers Kingdom right now than Alton Towers. 

 

@MattP sums up the frustrations quite proportionately above.

[UniFox21]

For me, our lack of creativity comes from our slow starts lacking intensity. If we can start with pace and power, especially at home, we can knock a team off their stride.

 

Other posters are mentioning the lack of creativity in our central duo (Wilf and Mendy). But their roles are as the "water carriers" their job being to shield the back line, filter in when our fullback bomb up and to recycle possession. Getting a player who can do all that and pick a line splitting pass starts to move out of our range. 

 

Maddison is in his first season in the top flight, it was always going to be an odd year for him. I think we're missing a high quality winger; we have a great talent in Gray, a workhorse with Albrighton and an unknown quantity in Ghezzal (i think he's a N° 10 personally). Having a high class winger in tandem with what we have could really stretch defences.

 

Then we need a plan B, a unit to come on and head everything thats floated into the box. A Giroud almost. And another striker to take the burden off Vardy, nacho isn't there yet.

 

Now for a few positives; our fullbacks look brilliant, we just need to be more effective with them. So many bright spots in our young team, they will only get better. Mags, Soyuncu and Benkovic are all looking promising and it'll be great to see how they fit soon. 

 

 

And if Sarri keeps slagging off Kante, he should come home ?