Time for Puel to go

[Hanan96]

10 minutes ago, Xen said:

For me, there's a number of points to judge Puel on and it's very much in the balance right now as to whether or not he should stay on.

 

On Transfers, I'd say he's mostly been a success. We've strengthened in all the areas we've been crying out for since the title win (CB*3, RB, AM, GK) mostly with young players with good potential. Even Ghezzal - who imo gets an unfair rap on here - has put in some decent performances after being bought as a squad player, improving on Diabaté

 

On Development, several players seem to be coming on strongly where they've previously faltered (Chilwell, Amartey, Mendy), and a few others are growing into their roles here after slow starts (Evans, Pereira, Soyuncu(?)), so I'd put this down as a slight success.

 

On Results, it's unfortunately edging towards failure. We have been unfortunate with injuries, suspensions etc., but we've still been picking up points and looking reasonably comfortable in mid-table. We should absolutely be pushing on though, and we've had opportunities to get Europa last season and push 6th this, but failed to take any of them. We're still in the cup for now and a win tomorrow may tip the balance in Puel's favour, here.

 

On Performances, failure. Pretty self-evident, we've been rubbish. Puel clearly has a style in mind but it's just not working with the personnel, and matches are drab affairs as a result. Every now and then it clicks and we see what we could be - and it's brilliant - for about 15 minutes and then its normal service resumed.

 

 

 

Overall, for me it's pretty balanced for and against. I've voted to keep him for the time being after all the events from the past few months, and I'm interested to see what we do in January. HOWEVER, if the right man (or woman, why not?) is available to take over and we can bring them in quickly, I would fully support that decision. I imagine our board are already starting to sound out potential replacements in case they have to pull the trigger.

 

Totally agree with this! 

If we keep linking only with another mid table level coach then no reason to replace him.

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Yeah, and they have done nothing  but flirt with relegation since sacking him

 

Why dont you infer that from those frightening similarities?

I have if you've read my previous posts.

 

They replaced him poorly, i'm not saying we'll do any better, however it is literally that simple, if that's literally the only thing keeping him in his job it's a very sorry state of affairs and says more about the predicament we're in than the support he is currently receiving for Puel appologists.

 

Before you ask me who, name names, e.t.c, I don't know, that's not my job, i'm hoping we have people doing research, scouting, have an updated shortlist (Even when we are doing well i'd hope all these points are the case)

.

[lgfualol]

He has done average with two average sides. Not too shocking for me. 

[Babylon]

16 minutes ago, Matt said:

I have if you've read my previous posts.

 

They replaced him poorly, i'm not saying we'll do any better, however it is literally that simple, if that's literally the only thing keeping him in his job it's a very sorry state of affairs and says more about the predicament we're in than the support he is currently receiving for Puel appologists.

 

Before you ask me who, name names, e.t.c, I don't know, that's not my job, i'm hoping we have people doing research, scouting, have an updated shortlist (Even when we are doing well i'd hope all these points are the case)

.

It's only that simple if you wish to look at it from that point of view and discredit anything he actually did there. His record there is comparable to Poch', having his best players sold from under him again. Whilst the football might have been drab and unexciting, they remained fairly competitive. Everything points to him being a safe but rather boring option. We were bottom three material two times before he arrived and Saints have been bottom three material left. So lets actually give him some credit, as he seems to do enough to keep teams in the safety of midtable.

 

There are plenty of issues. We can't carry on with this style of football forever, because we do want to have some fun going down. But, I seriously think people should give him at least until the summer. Because choosing a successful alternative isn't going to be as easy as people think.

 

Do you trust those in charge to make the right decision in terms of replacement?

How long are you prepared to give a replacement?

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

It's only that simple if you wish to look at it from that point of view and discredit anything he actually did there. His record there is comparable to Poch', having his best players sold from under him again. Whilst the football might have been drab and unexciting, they remained fairly competitive. Everything points to him being a safe but rather boring option. We were bottom three material two times before he arrived and Saints have been bottom three material left. So lets actually give him some credit, as he seems to do enough to keep teams in the safety of midtable.

 

There are plenty of issues. We can't carry on with this style of football forever, because we do want to have some fun going down. But, I seriously think people should give him at least until the summer. Because choosing a successful alternative isn't going to be as easy as people think.

 

Do you trust those in charge to make the right decision in terms of replacement?

How long are you prepared to give a replacement?

 

Do I trust those in charge to make the right decision in terms of a replacement? No, I've just said in another thread, the powers that be failed the previous 2 managers and I stated this when Puel came in, now i'm talking recruitment here, I assume the same people are responsible for seeking managers. If that is all correct, they should be gone and it should have been a while ago, we're off on a tangent now though, I admit i've led myself down a path contradicting myself by saying all that, but it shows how deeper the problem is and I don't like using the word but the 'mess' we're in. I said it a while back, we need to wipe the slate clean in so many areas, which is a massive risk but I feel it is needed.

 

How long are you prepared to give a replacement? Well it's an ongoing assessment isn't it. I'll note the good and bad as I have done with Puel, I don't exclusively blame everything on him, I have noted he's done the odd good thing, but I think there are alot of cons compared to pros regarding Puel.

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

As I said in previous post not the biggest Puel's fan, however;

 

But look at our squad especially attacking options, CR, CS left the squad in a mess, poor signing after poor signing, he's had a massive job to do. 

 

The clear out of deadwood and the bring in of new players in going to take more than one summer, unless the owner were willing to spend big, or net spend was 25-30 million. 

 

We had to buy a extra centre-halfs because of the  the Maguire situation (Done), we need a decent right back (Done), we need a decent back up keeper (Done), we need a number 10 (Done), I am strongly believe that Ghezzel was done as a last minute option because we failed to land other options. 

 

The deadwood in Hamer, Ulloa, Musa, gone, I think this winter/summer you will see the end of Oki, King, Simpson, great servants but all past their sell by date. 

 

Next summer we see further strengthening in attacking positions. 

 

I believe we are were we are because that were we are, the bloke just doesn't have options in attacking areas.

I think Puel's biggest oversight was moving as many fringe strikers on as he has done without bringing any others in himself. You cant lose your only creative player in Mahrez, who needed help when he was here anyway and also get rid of most striking options and expect goals. Under Shakespeare and Puel last season we scored a lot of goals but we are now seeing a team who struggles for goals. 

 

It's going to cost him.

[Corky]

30 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

He has done average with two average sides. Not too shocking for me. 

He's just average. His record is mid-table, his best run is four wins, his worst run is three defeats.

 

If anything, too many draws have been the biggest problem, both in recent times and at home throughout 2018.

[lgfualol]

5 minutes ago, Corky said:

He's just average. His record is mid-table, his best run is four wins, his worst run is three defeats.

 

If anything, too many draws have been the biggest problem, both in recent times and at home throughout 2018.

Pretty much. It's funny because I always dreamed of Leicester being just an average Premier League side. 

[The_77]

49 minutes ago, Xen said:

For me, there's a number of points to judge Puel on and it's very much in the balance right now as to whether or not he should stay on.

 

On Transfers, I'd say he's mostly been a success. We've strengthened in all the areas we've been crying out for since the title win (CB*3, RB, AM, GK) mostly with young players with good potential. Even Ghezzal - who imo gets an unfair rap on here - has put in some decent performances after being bought as a squad player, improving on Diabaté

 

On Development, several players seem to be coming on strongly where they've previously faltered (Chilwell, Amartey, Mendy), and a few others are growing into their roles here after slow starts (Evans, Pereira, Soyuncu(?)), so I'd put this down as a slight success.

 

On Results, it's unfortunately edging towards failure. We have been unfortunate with injuries, suspensions etc., but we've still been picking up points and looking reasonably comfortable in mid-table. We should absolutely be pushing on though, and we've had opportunities to get Europa last season and push 6th this, but failed to take any of them. We're still in the cup for now and a win tomorrow may tip the balance in Puel's favour, here.

 

On Performances, failure. Pretty self-evident, we've been rubbish. Puel clearly has a style in mind but it's just not working with the personnel, and matches are drab affairs as a result. Every now and then it clicks and we see what we could be - and it's brilliant - for about 15 minutes and then its normal service resumed.

 

 

 

Overall, for me it's pretty balanced for and against. I've voted to keep him for the time being after all the events from the past few months, and I'm interested to see what we do in January. HOWEVER, if the right man (or woman, why not?) is available to take over and we can bring them in quickly, I would fully support that decision. I imagine our board are already starting to sound out potential replacements in case they have to pull the trigger.

 

This is a very thoughtful and reasoned post. I’d be inclined to say most people on here agree with your assessment but have different ideas of what should be done moving forward. 

[Bunyip]

2 hours ago, yks said:

So you want to fire the manager and risk the future of the club because you can't appreciate this style of football.
OK...

The future of the club is already at risk under Puels management. And it's not just me, how many people actually " appreciate " this style of football ? you must be the only one in the ground to appreciate the boring negative dross served up by him.

[Bunyip]

55 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

He has done average with two average sides. Not too shocking for me. 

But we don't want average, do we? the owners have already stated time and time again they want us challenging for European spots, you don't do that by being average.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

4 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

But we don't want average, do we? the owners have already stated time and time again they want us challenging for European spots, you don't do that by being average.

Believe me if a manager comes in and has us breaking in to the top 6 he will be poached by another club before you know it  

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, yks said:

More tackles, more aerial won, more passes completed than last season...

It's pretty fair to compare Ndidi's stats of one entire season with half of it.

Let's see where he stands in May.

[MPH]

2 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Please tell me when he had David Silva like vision with his passing

 

 

please tell me that last time his passing was so woeful? he’s no silva, but he’s been so much better also

[MPH]

2 hours ago, yks said:

More tackles, more aerial won, more passes completed than last season...

 

 

David Batty probably had a higher pass completion ratio than Pail Gascoigne, but that doesn’t mean he’s a better passer of the ball. 

 

 

you strip down someones role so its just the basics, you’ll get the stats but it proves nothing, other than you kill their confidence/ ability  to do the other things they need to do..

[coolhandfox]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

I think Puel's biggest oversight was moving as many fringe strikers on as he has done without bringing any others in himself. You cant lose your only creative player in Mahrez, who needed help when he was here anyway and also get rid of most striking options and expect goals. Under Shakespeare and Puel last season we scored a lot of goals but we are now seeing a team who struggles for goals. 

 

It's going to cost him.

I agree with you, but we do not know what brief his been given, I suspect he was told to reduce the age of the squad and also the wage bill.

 

Last season we scored more 1.47 per game and conceded 1.58 per game, this season we are better defensibly at 1.24 per game but are attack has suffered and only scoring at 1.24 a game. If we can add some attacking flair in January I think we could be in good shape.

 

I think the club know it wouldn't have a better chance to off load Musa, Slim seemed to be a bad apple in the camp and Ulloa didn't want to carry on not playing. 

 

I think he wasn't given the funds to sort out all the squad problems, and has done what he could with the budget, you could argue that we didn't need 3 CB, but I think the club wasn't sure of what would happen with  Maguire. 

 

Replacing Mahrez was always going to be difficult, and I have the feeling we had lot of target and none materialized, either we were unwilling to pay or they were unwilling to come, if we had secured someone like Anderson it would have made all the difference. 

 

 

[MC Prussian]

2 hours ago, yks said:

Except Clapham Fox created the faux argument, because the entitlement isn't due to only expressing that opinion, but to the reasons of this opinion.

Everyone has his or her own reasons for disliking a person or a situation, in particular in football. It comes with the sport, it's part of the culture.

Blaming *entitlement" for it goes by the argument - you may have the subjective perception that people come across as "entitled", when in fact, they're either hoping, worried or troubled by what they see on the pitch and recent results. @ClaphamFox, for all we know, may have a perfectly fine and reasonable justification, and it may not just simply be down to him thinking we should be finishing higher up in the table or score more goals and concede less.

"Entitlement" is a very big word, and as previously mentioned, has been used in inflationary numbers in recent years. The arguments vary and for some, it's a cumulation of elements that come together.

You'll be hard pressed to find any Leicester fan demanding we should be playing Top Six regularly, win every game, aspire to be the next Manchester United or repeat our league win. What we can expect, however, is better and more energetic and sometimes simpler football on show and a team playing with a system that they feel comfortable in.

To me, it still hasn't made click between manager and team and some of his personnel decisions as well as his tactics and formation leave something to be desired for.

I stated before, I do not blame Puel for the situation entirely, but he does play a big part in it. And he knows that.

 

What saves Puel in this kind of situation is that he is a mid-table manager managing a mid-table team, so you tend to get as many people in favour of him as there are people against him. Which as a consequence leads to a plethora of people arguing on both sides.

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I'm not sure if my post and Geoff Peters/UpTheLeagueFox's tweet quoting the Southampton fan's blog yesterday was overlooked by alot of people or people simply didn't find it interesting.

 

I'm not trying to make something of it, if people don't think it's interesting or something to be discussed or worried about fair enough but I expected more discussion and debate to be made of it.

 

The similarities are frightening, it's almost a carbon copy.

 

https://leagueoneminus10.blogspot.com/2017/05/claude-puel-should-he-stay-or-should-he.html

 

 

 

i wasnt aware ware of your post yesterday but i remember the warnings.

 

we were warned!

 

 

 

there could be an argument  that Puel was needed to bring on the likes of Chillwell. but it could also be argued that Puel has served his purpose and his limitations have been exposed.

[lgfualol]

49 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

But we don't want average, do we? the owners have already stated time and time again they want us challenging for European spots, you don't do that by being average.

Better spend some more $$$ then. You don't get Europe with our squad.

[MC Prussian]

3 hours ago, yks said:

Yes it is, because this opinion is due to the fact that you expect something from a football club and you think it has to give it to you

Spoiler : a football club doesn't owe you anything.

By the same logic, football fans don't owe clubs anything.

 

So, no more paying customers. No more spectators in stadiums, no atmosphere.

 

It works both ways.

 

In the end, your argument is flawed or even inappropriate, because it's not about "owing" something or "expecting" something, rather about giving something for something in return. We can't expect teams to function perfectly week in, week out. What we can do, is that we can hope.

Footballers running their lungs out, and football fans singing their hearts out.

Fans and clubs form a unit, or should do, at least in theory.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

15 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

please tell me that last time his passing was so woeful? he’s no silva, but he’s been so much better also

His passing has always been a noticeable weakness. In a style that has more possession its going to stand out even more.

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I'm not sure if my post and Geoff Peters/UpTheLeagueFox's tweet quoting the Southampton fan's blog yesterday was overlooked by alot of people or people simply didn't find it interesting.

 

I'm not trying to make something of it, if people don't think it's interesting or something to be discussed or worried about fair enough but I expected more discussion and debate to be made of it.

 

The similarities are frightening, it's almost a carbon copy.

 

https://leagueoneminus10.blogspot.com/2017/05/claude-puel-should-he-stay-or-should-he.html

 

Interesting, you could change the club name and players name and it could be just as easily about us, however we need to ensure we don't end up as a carbon copy of Southampton post Puel. 

 

I actual think if CR and CS had stay in post, we would have got relegated in both of those season, our squad isn't as good as some people think, I think the owner needs to have a think about there next move.

 

 

[MPH]

2 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

His passing has always been a noticeable weakness. In a style that has more possession its going to stand out even more.

 

 

when you change a formation/ tactic and someone’s role in the team it shakes their confidence and thought process, he was certainly no world beater with regards to passing but i would definitely say it’s gotten worse, if that was at all possible. he’s not making the same commanding runs either, doesn’t look as committed in the tackle either. he’s going backwards.

[Babylon]

56 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

But we don't want average, do we? the owners have already stated time and time again they want us challenging for European spots, you don't do that by being average.

When was the last time they talked about challenging for Europe of late. The programme in the summer stated "Our primary ambition is a long-term one – to make Leicester City a sustainable and consistently competitive force in the Premier League,”. The end of season programme said pretty much the same thing.

 

People need to get their heads around the fact consistently challenging for Europe will not happen without further significant investment. Selling for best player for £60m and replacing him for £10m, is not the sort of investment that gets results quickly most of the time.

 

The only way we can do it is slow growth of the whole club, which seems to be the clear aim.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

Just now, MPH said:

 

 

when you change a formation/ tactic and someone’s role in the team it shakes their confidence and thought process, he was certainly no world beater with regards to passing but i would definitely say it’s gotten worse, if that was at all possible. he’s not making the same commanding runs either, doesn’t look as committed in the tackle either. he’s going backwards.

He's been getting forward more in games and shooting more. I agree he hasnt been fantastic this season, whilst doing good defensive work. To be honest i dont really remember him making commanding runs often