LCFC Announce Partnership With Stonewall

[LinekersApples]

16 hours ago, Xen said:

Brilliant news from the club 

 

 

 

Sweepstake on how many pages before this thread gets locked and/or posts get deleted? I'm going for 8...  

It’ll never reach 150 

[RumbleFox]

2 minutes ago, LinekersApples said:

It’ll never reach 150 

I'm expecting another posting restriction and the thread to be closed around page 17. X 

[Guest worth_the_wait]

8 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

As a supporter who used to go regularly in the 90s early 2000s, before moving to the other side of the world.

How bad is it at grounds now?

I know when I first started going a lot of individual comments were heard regularly,  and I know whenever we played Brighton “we can see you holding hands” and “does your boyfriend know your here?” Were regularly aimed at their supporters.

 How bad is it now?

When you visit the KP do you still get homophobic abuse shouted from the stands?

I think, within our supporters racist abuse was never really tolerated, although it did happen.

Can anyone give me an insight into the games now?

Do we have any LGBTQ posters on here who regularly attend games? Would be great to have an insight into how safe you feel when attending the games.

On a serious point, can someone answer the above questions please?

 

Apart from the mickey-taking with Brighton fans, I can't recall any instances of homophobic abuse at football matches.   Is there anyone out there who would feel uncomfortable going to the KP because of their sexuality?  

[HighPeakFox]

20 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

On a serious point, can someone answer the above questions please?

 

Apart from the mickey-taking with Brighton fans, I can't recall any instances of homophobic abuse at football matches.   Is there anyone out there who would feel uncomfortable going to the KP because of their sexuality?  

Casual homophobia is absolutely everywhere, and is so routine in my generation and older (I'm 48) that I expect it happens even more than I realise. 

[Buce]

16 hours ago, David Guiza said:

The problem is that some believe freedom of speech is the freedom from criticism or repercussion. Just look at that Israel Folau case, the amount of people on his side who beleive that you can say whatever the hell you like and people have to put up with it because 'freedom of speech'. The definition given in Article 10 of the Human Rights Act is:-

 

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

 

I fail to see where in that definition one is free to say whatever they want without any interference whatsoever if it is deemed offensive imoral etc. 

 

As for anyone suggesting that it's too far the other way, I really don't see how wearing a colourful armband and whatever else the partnership will involve is at all similar to the treatment of some LGBTQ people. 

 

 

Is the bolded part not open to interpretation?

 

For example, many objectors to what they term as 'promotion of homosexuality' do so from precisely that position.

 

(I shouldn't need to say this but for the removal of doubt, I am not arguing from that position; I am merely inerested in the apparent loophole in the definition @David Guiza posted)

 

9 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

As a supporter who used to go regularly in the 90s early 2000s, before moving to the other side of the world.

How bad is it at grounds now?

I know when I first started going a lot of individual comments were heard regularly,  and I know whenever we played Brighton “we can see you holding hands” and “does your boyfriend know your here?” Were regularly aimed at their supporters.

 How bad is it now?

When you visit the KP do you still get homophobic abuse shouted from the stands?

I think, within our supporters racist abuse was never really tolerated, although it did happen.

Can anyone give me an insight into the games now?

Do we have any LGBTQ posters on here who regularly attend games? Would be great to have an insight into how safe you feel when attending the games.

 

Had you been around in the 60s and 70s you would know that statement to be false.

 

Our fan base was as bad as any for racist abuse.

 

 

[Aus Fox]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Is the bolded part not open to interpretation?

 

For example, many objectors to what they term as 'promotion of homosexuality' do so from precisely that position.

 

(I shouldn't need to say this but for the removal of doubt, I am not arguing from that position; I am merely inerested in the apparent loophole in the definition @David Guiza posted)

 

 

Had you been around in the 60s and 70s you would know that statement to be false.

 

Our fan base was as bad as any for racist abuse.

 

 

In my lifetime, I don’t think it’s been bad and hasn’t been tolerated in the stands. We’ve been on the receiving end a fair few times from the likes of Forest, Leeds and Millwall.

[UniFox21]

14 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Casual homophobia is absolutely everywhere, and is so routine in my generation and older (I'm 48) that I expect it happens even more than I realise. 

 

There's a still a lot of causal homophobia around in my age groups too (22). But it does seem to be reducing around my age group and below. All the education and stuff being pushed will start to make an impact, but I don't fully think we'll see a huge improvement until, as you suggested, the older generations 'catch on'. 

[David Guiza]

41 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Is the bolded part not open to interpretation?

 

For example, many objectors to what they term as 'promotion of homosexuality' do so from precisely that position.

 

(I shouldn't need to say this but for the removal of doubt, I am not arguing from that position; I am merely inerested in the apparent loophole in the definition @David Guiza posted)

 

The law and morality have always been at odds, as one doesn't always reflect the other. For example a large number of people believe that an eye for an eye is the only moral justice, but the majority (just about) do not. I think it's a balancing act for the courts/employer or whoever it is in said situation to make an object decision as to what the majority would perceive to be right and wrong. The vast majority, you'd like to think at least, would say that homophobia is wrong and thus it would be determined that it is for the protection of morals to censor and or punish, or at least question and critique. 

 

As an aside there was a study mentioned on the news this morning that suggested society may have reached it's peak for 'tolerating' things like sex before marraige and homsexuality, as the study showed a slow decline in those who are accepting of the same.  

[Xen]

9 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

As a supporter who used to go regularly in the 90s early 2000s, before moving to the other side of the world.

How bad is it at grounds now?

I know when I first started going a lot of individual comments were heard regularly,  and I know whenever we played Brighton “we can see you holding hands” and “does your boyfriend know your here?” Were regularly aimed at their supporters.

 How bad is it now?

When you visit the KP do you still get homophobic abuse shouted from the stands?

I think, within our supporters racist abuse was never really tolerated, although it did happen.

Can anyone give me an insight into the games now?

Do we have any LGBTQ posters on here who regularly attend games? Would be great to have an insight into how safe you feel when attending the games.

 

50 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

On a serious point, can someone answer the above questions please?

 

Apart from the mickey-taking with Brighton fans, I can't recall any instances of homophobic abuse at football matches.   Is there anyone out there who would feel uncomfortable going to the KP because of their sexuality?  

 

I can't comment on the general abuse (specifically for Brighton fans) as I don't travel for away games very often at all, but I've not heard anything widespread at the KP. Then again I sit opposite to the away fans, so if there is anything it might be more prevalent that side of the ground.

 

As for the other question, I'm an openly gay man and formerly an LCFC member (now ST holder ) so I've been to most home games over the past couple of seasons and sat in a mixture of seats, usually in the west stand. 95% of the time I hear no abuse whatsoever, other than maybe a few kids using language out of context (e.g. "That's so gay" in response to anything bad, but not directed at any individual). I've even taken my partner to a few cup games and held hands in/around the ground without incident (I know this is setting the bar for acceptance very low, but still...).

The 5% of the time where I have heard abuse was on two occasions around Feb/March, where I sat in the same seat in C2 both games and had to put up with a fair amount of homophobic language aimed at James Maddison from the group (mostly adults, some boys) directly behind me. Comments calling him a fairy and saying he kept diving with his arse in the air, wanting other players to 'fall' on him... You get the picture. This happened across both games I was sat there so unfortunately not an isolated incident, akthough as far as I could tell it was just this very small group of individuals involved.

 

I'll add that I'm openly gay but not overly flamboyant or camp most of the time (not that there's anything wrong with those that are), so perhaps the experience might be different for others. 

[foxy boxing]

Everyone who goes to watch football has a right to go without fear of discrimination or persecution because of their identity. it's the same with football players they deserve to play the game without fear of being abused because of who they are or who they identify as. go to football and sing about how much you love the club or get on a players back for footballing reasons only. live and let live.

[RumbleFox]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

 

 

I can't comment on the general abuse (specifically for Brighton fans) as I don't travel for away games very often at all, but I've not heard anything widespread at the KP. Then again I sit opposite to the away fans, so if there is anything it might be more prevalent that side of the ground.

 

As for the other question, I'm an openly gay man and formerly an LCFC member (now ST holder ) so I've been to most home games over the past couple of seasons and sat in a mixture of seats, usually in the west stand. 95% of the time I hear no abuse whatsoever, other than maybe a few kids using language out of context (e.g. "That's so gay" in response to anything bad, but not directed at any individual). I've even taken my partner to a few cup games and held hands in/around the ground without incident (I know this is setting the bar for acceptance very low, but still...).

The 5% of the time where I have heard abuse was on two occasions around Feb/March, where I sat in the same seat in C2 both games and had to put up with a fair amount of homophobic language aimed at James Maddison from the group (mostly adults, some boys) directly behind me. Comments calling him a fairy and saying he kept diving with his arse in the air, wanting other players to 'fall' on him... You get the picture. This happened across both games I was sat there so unfortunately not an isolated incident, akthough as far as I could tell it was just this very small group of individuals involved.

 

I'll add that I'm openly gay but not overly flamboyant or camp most of the time (not that there's anything wrong with those that are), so perhaps the experience might be different for others. 

Thanks for sharing. X 

[Aus Fox]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

 

 

I can't comment on the general abuse (specifically for Brighton fans) as I don't travel for away games very often at all, but I've not heard anything widespread at the KP. Then again I sit opposite to the away fans, so if there is anything it might be more prevalent that side of the ground.

 

As for the other question, I'm an openly gay man and formerly an LCFC member (now ST holder ) so I've been to most home games over the past couple of seasons and sat in a mixture of seats, usually in the west stand. 95% of the time I hear no abuse whatsoever, other than maybe a few kids using language out of context (e.g. "That's so gay" in response to anything bad, but not directed at any individual). I've even taken my partner to a few cup games and held hands in/around the ground without incident (I know this is setting the bar for acceptance very low, but still...).

The 5% of the time where I have heard abuse was on two occasions around Feb/March, where I sat in the same seat in C2 both games and had to put up with a fair amount of homophobic language aimed at James Maddison from the group (mostly adults, some boys) directly behind me. Comments calling him a fairy and saying he kept diving with his arse in the air, wanting other players to 'fall' on him... You get the picture. This happened across both games I was sat there so unfortunately not an isolated incident, akthough as far as I could tell it was just this very small group of individuals involved.

 

I'll add that I'm openly gay but not overly flamboyant or camp most of the time (not that there's anything wrong with those that are), so perhaps the experience might be different for others. 

Thanks for sharing, really good to hear real life stories. I think this is the best way to educate people. Can I ask if you did anything when you heard the abuse? 

How did it make you feel?

Thanks again for sharing.

[pleatout]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Is the bolded part not open to interpretation?

 

For example, many objectors to what they term as 'promotion of homosexuality' do so from precisely that position.

 

(I shouldn't need to say this but for the removal of doubt, I am not arguing from that position; I am merely inerested in the apparent loophole in the definition @David Guiza posted)

 

 

Had you been around in the 60s and 70s you would know that statement to be false.

 

Our fan base was as bad as any for racist abuse.

 

 

Well into the 80's. The "N" word was a regular feature in pen 2/3 chants

[Xen]

36 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Thanks for sharing, really good to hear real life stories. I think this is the best way to educate people. Can I ask if you did anything when you heard the abuse? 

How did it make you feel?

Thanks again for sharing.

I did nothing. I'm a fairly non-confrontational person anyway, and I was sat on my own so didn't fancy speaking up at the time. Probably should have raised it with the club after the fact, especially when it persisted the second game, but didn't; if a similar situation happened again I'd be sure to make the club aware. If the abuse had been directed at either myself or another individual in the crowd I'd like to think I'd be more proactive, but thats much easier said than done.

 

It's nothing I haven't heard before elsewhere so I wasn't too upset about it, if anything (at the time) I was more annoyed that they were openly criticising our own player rather than supporting him. There was definitely some anger there as well but I try to keep that in check - pick your battles and whatnot. Again though, luckily I'm very rarely a victim of direct homophobic abuse so my experiences are far from universal. 

 

The facebook/twitter comments are easy to laugh off or even pity the offenders as its the sort of thing you see on such a frequent basis that any other response isn't worth the energy. 

[Rusko187]

12 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

As a supporter who used to go regularly in the 90s early 2000s, before moving to the other side of the world.

How bad is it at grounds now?

I know when I first started going a lot of individual comments were heard regularly,  and I know whenever we played Brighton “we can see you holding hands” and “does your boyfriend know your here?” Were regularly aimed at their supporters.

 How bad is it now?

When you visit the KP do you still get homophobic abuse shouted from the stands?

I think, within our supporters racist abuse was never really tolerated, although it did happen.

Can anyone give me an insight into the games now?

Do we have any LGBTQ posters on here who regularly attend games? Would be great to have an insight into how safe you feel when attending the games.

Yes, this still occurs... and by a worryingly large section of fans.

[sheffield_fox]

Excellent news. Another proud day for the club. 

 

Hopefully this will be the catalyst to finally stamping out any and all homophobia at games.

 

As for the numpties who has responded negatively, I can only assume they've been misled and are very insecure in themselves.

[sheffield_fox]

2 hours ago, Rusko187 said:

Yes, this still occurs... and by a worryingly large section of fans.

The club obviously needs to be sending a plain clothes club official with the away fans to identify and ban the offenders (or educate if they are receptive to it).

 

Somebody will probably say this is overly draconian but do we really need these people at the club?

 

If we're partnering with stonewall, this is exactly the sort of proactive move we should be making imo.

[Finnaldo]

I’m honestly amazed how pent up people get about this. You’d think they’d announced gay porn airings at half time.

 

In reality it’s simply showing a portion of supporters they can be who they are in an environment that has been traditionally hyper-masculine. 

 

Most people will be completely unaffected by this partnership, those who are will wither be those glad their club is supporting them to feel safe and welcome, or those who need to give their head a wobble.

[urban.spaceman]

Leicester Pride today. The comments on here are the exact reason we need this partnership with Stonewall:

 

Stamp. It. Out.

[Xen]

39 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Leicester Pride today. The comments on here are the exact reason we need this partnership with Stonewall:

 

Stamp. It. Out.

An awful lot of the negative comments are  - thankfully - coming from foreigners (non-lcfc fans?) from countries where being LGBTQ is still either illegal or heavily looked down upon. Obviously it'd be better if those views didn't exist anywhere, but at least we can take solace in the fact that people in this country are generally-speaking fully accepting and supportive. We've come a long way in the UK.

[ozleicester]

Proud of my club standing up for fairness and equality.

Just this week in Australia, our fundamentalist leader just released a "Religious Freedoms act" which will allow discrimination against LGBTIQ and other marginalised and minority groups.

[somebum]

Yes wow this is absolutely fantastic yes great best thing ever yes I agree 

[Sly]

I’ve nothing against it. I find it bizarre how people hate on each other for skin colour, religion or sexual preference if I’m honest. We’re all human! I don’t hate next doors dog as it’s different to mine and try’s to jump my leg.
 

I do find the more than 2 gender thing a little odd and disagree with it. However I guess I’m no longer up with the times.

 

What really upsets me, is having it rammed down my throat. Whether it’s LGBT, female equality or anything else. 

[ozleicester]

29 minutes ago, Sly said:

I’ve nothing against it. I find it bizarre how people hate on each other for skin colour, religion or sexual preference if I’m honest. We’re all human! I don’t hate next doors dog as it’s different to mine and try’s to jump my leg.
 

I do find the more than 2 gender thing a little odd and disagree with it. However I guess I’m no longer up with the times.

 

What really upsets me, is having it rammed down my throat. Whether it’s LGBT, female equality or anything else. 

Why do you disagree with it, i get that you may not understand, but why worry, its not going to affect you.

[Sly]

10 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Why do you disagree with it, i get that you may not understand, but why worry, its not going to affect you.

Sorry, I understand gender gender is a spectrum thing. I actually meant sexes. Surely you’re born male or female. 
 

What gender you define yourself from that is up to you.