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StriderHiryu

Brendan Rodgers

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There was several faults yesterday but the International break didn't help us, We lost momentum.

It's also apparent that slow starts which was a problem under Puel was also evident again yesterday. 

This is generally down to player attitude and something BR needs to fix and quickly as it's been evident in most games this season.

Utd to their credit were all over us right from the off. When that happens you need to close ranks sit in and take the sting out of them.

We didn't do that. They were never going to keep that amount of effort up for too long.

They swarmed around us in possession, yet we continued to try and play through them. We needed to move the Ball long constantly switching to were the space was. It wasn't luck that Kaspers long Ball nearly brought a Goal. He spotted the space and attacked it with his clearance. Credit to Kasper.

Rogers has questions to answer, How he perceived Gray would do more that Albrighton, Barnes or Perez . That's just is never going to happen.  

Our tactics were flawed from the off, And the use of Hamza deep gave them the impetus in midfield when we needed him doing what he does best, breaking up play further forward.

 

I accept we're a player or two short from our best team, But Rogers along with Rudkin has to accept responsibility for that. We should have brought in a proper striker and  After 4 years we should have sold Gray and brought in James. Who cost Utd little money  and looks a real prospect. 

Now we must wait until next Summer as anyone worth their weight will cost too much in January. With the exception of Tielemans who hasn't performed yet this season, The Summer Window has been a disaster. If were ever going to compete at the top we need to bring in the quality to complete the squad. Otherwise were going to continue to lose our best players each year.

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The slow starts point is true. It's not quite Puel bad (where going 1-0 down in the first 10 minutes was practically a given) but you can't say it's been sorted ether. We always take too long to get going in nearly every game.

 

When dd we last score a goal in the first 10 minutes?

 

I'd dread to see a table of our goals for and against in the first ten minutes in the last couple of seasons. We'd be bottom by an almost unbelievable dstance.

Edited by Dan LCFC

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The constant tactical changes don’t really work either, unless you’re Pep and have all the best players. Look at Klopp, his team plays the same system every game, as does Conte with his 3-4-3, us in 15/16, Sarri and his 4-3-3, the list goes on.

 

In these teams, the players know their role and there is no confusion. I see confusion in our players when Brendan switches to this 2 DM system.

 

Brendan, a bit like Emre wants to constantly change it up every game. Just stick to one system (the 4-1-4-1) and let the players gel. 

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10 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

The slow starts point is true. It's not quite Puel bad (where going 1-0 down in the first 10 minutes was practically a given) but you can't say it's been sorted ether. We always take too long to get going in nearly every game.

 

When dd we last score a goal in the first 10 minutes?

 

I'd dread to see a table of our goals for and against in the first ten minutes in the last couple of seasons. We'd be bottom by an almost unbelievable dstance.

The thing is under Puel we would often start games fairly well where we'd have an excellent early chance but we were a magnet for still conceding the first goal. That got worse and worse. Under Rodgers we have looked shit from the off with very little created early on in the majority of the games this season. Maddison did have a good chance before they scored but we were the worse team vs Wolves, Chelsea and Sheffield Utd in the early stages too.

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We have got to compete physically from the off , it ain't pretty but it puts a mark down , otherwise the opposition are going to immediately put us on the back foot..

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I have faith in him delivering and having us playing to the best of our abilities in time, its not quiet happening now though.

 

Be a lot more noise after that inept performance and baffling team selection + subs if he was a whispering Frenchman rather than an amicable Ulsterman

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2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

The thing is under Puel we would often start games fairly well where we'd have an excellent early chance but we were a magnet for still conceding the first goal. That got worse and worse. Under Rodgers we have looked shit from the off with very little created early on in the majority of the games this season. Maddison did have a good chance before they scored but we were the worse team vs Wolves, Chelsea and Sheffield Utd in the early stages too.

Under Puel we went through a run of something daft like 12 games in 14 where we went 1-0 down and about 7/8 of those were in the first 10 minutes. It was practically accepted we'd be behind in the first half.

 

It's not quite that dire yet but starting on the back foot still seems to be a bit of a problem. Even Bournemouth I think probably edged the first ten before we did catch them out with the Vardy goal.

 

It was Rodgers' Liverpool that I remember being extremely quick starters and I thought we'd see similar to that from us this year.

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13 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Under Puel we went through a run of something daft like 12 games in 14 where we went 1-0 down and about 7/8 of those were in the first 10 minutes. It was practically accepted we'd be behind in the first half.

 

It's not quite that dire yet but starting on the back foot still seems to be a bit of a problem. Even Bournemouth I think probably edged the first ten before we did catch them out with the Vardy goal.

 

It was Rodgers' Liverpool that I remember being extremely quick starters and I thought we'd see similar to that from us this year.

It was the exact same at Celtic in the invincible season (his first season) and then in the second season it shifted to be pretty much the polar opposite like you guys are seeing now.

 

Can only comment on what I saw in Scotland but it looked like when teams got a bit wiser to how we played Rodgers was too stubborn to adapt.  He persisted with us shuffling the ball from side to side as opposed to trying to be a bit more direct and getting defences turning and in behind.  I can't help but think this slow, ponderous approach utterly kills Vardy's game in particular.

 

The Maddison thing also puzzles me a bit with him as one of the things he was great at up here and which made a massive difference was that he played players in their proper positions all the time and only never when he had no choice.  For example players like McGregor and Armstrong were re-born because of this.

 

 

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On 14/09/2019 at 17:28, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Knee jerk central over here hahahahaha

 

16 hours ago, egg_fried_rice said:

I'm as disappointed as anyone with the performance and result yesterday and think Brodge should be setting us up differently, but we must remember it's still early days in his tenure and knee jerk reactions aren't helpful.

 

Remember how long it took Klopp to turn Liverpool around - now look at them.

It’s not knee jerk, half the forum have been banging on about the stupidity of playing Maddison out wide since the season started. I don’t like 2 CDMs, but if he chooses that formation then he has to choose either YT or JM-they don’t both fit.

 

He needs to change, and change now-if he’s not a good enough manager to work this out then this season will be a missed opportunity, 60%+ possession or not.

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All and sundry here were screaming for Choudhury to be in the side. I have no issue with him as a player, he is quality. However, all the armchair managers get their wish and then complain that we are too defensively set up with no width.  You cannot have it both ways (Wilf is always going to be first choice CDM at least for the foreseeable future).  We have a squad and you cannot play all 20+players every game.

 

For what its worth, whilst I fervently hoped that we would put out pretty much the same formation as against Bournemouth (personnel may change slightly depending on form/injuries etc) I always felt that Rodgers would take a more conservative view and set up to try and contain rather than press at old Trafford.

 

I like Rodgers and what he brings, but so far as I can make out the only difference between him and Puel so far is that he is not afraid to change things around and does actually pick a more attacking side against teams that we should be beating, whereas Puel stuck doggedly to his formulae.  This is what for me was most disappointing on Saturday. Man Utd, with all their injury issues etc, were there for the taking yet he decided to play it safe. I understand that sometimes you have to pick a team and formation that suits the occasion, yet here was a chance to take advantage of a weakened team, that come the end of the season we could be competing against for a European spot.  We played against a reputation not the actual team that on the park and that, IMO was poor judgement.

 

The dilemma now for the Spurs game is, do we say "well that dint work, we are better with a more attacking formation"  swap it up, go for it and get punished for it?  Personally I would rather see us have a good go, make an exciting game of it, and if we get beat by a better team on the day then so be it.  But then again its not my job that's on the line if we fall short of the points total/position set by the powers that be.

Edited by urban fox

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Feel a bit sorry for Rodgers to be honest. All the hype and expectation came because of his reputation. He's always said it will take time to get his methods fully across and nothing has changed in that respect. Some fans are now showing disappointment at the first hiccup and blaming Rodgers because their own high expectations are not as immediate as they'd like. Just chill out, put your tactics boards back in their cases and give the fella some working space.

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2 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Feel a bit sorry for Rodgers to be honest. All the hype and expectation came because of his reputation. He's always said it will take time to get his methods fully across and nothing has changed in that respect. Some fans are now showing disappointment at the first hiccup and blaming Rodgers because their own high expectations are not as immediate as they'd like. Just chill out, put your tactics boards back in their cases and give the fella some working space.

Tactics boards?  More very small note pad and pen apparently. 

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Regarding pragmatism versus sticking to a known style, it's interesting to see how Norwich got on at the weekend. They got spanked by Liverpool first game of the season, but have not changed their way of playing. Hence when the Champions came to town they were able to play their way out of a high press:
 

So it's a difficult one. Do you as a manager resist the urge to control games with 2 CDMs and just play your best style even if the opposition might beat you, or do you adjust your plans accordingly? There are arguments either way!

Respect to Norwich though, that is seriously impressive play.

 

 

 

Edited by StriderHiryu
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28 minutes ago, urban fox said:

All and sundry here were screaming for Choudhury to be in the side. I have no issue with him as a player, he is quality. However, all the armchair managers get their wish and then complain that we are too defensively set up with no width.  You cannot have it both ways (Wilf is always going to be first choice CDM at least for the foreseeable future).  We have a squad and you cannot play all 20+players every game.

 

For what its worth, whilst I fervently hoped that we would put out pretty much the same formation as against Bournemouth (personnel may change slightly depending on form/injuries etc) I always felt that Rodgers would take a more conservative view and set up to try and contain rather than press at old Trafford.

 

I like Rodgers and what he brings, but so far as I can make out the only difference between him and Puel so far is that he is not afraid to change things around and does actually pick a more attacking side against teams that we should be beating, whereas Puel stuck doggedly to his formulae.  This is what for me was most disappointing on Saturday. Man Utd, with all their injury issues etc, were there for the taking yet he decided to play it safe. I understand that sometimes you have to pick a team and formation that suits the occasion, yet here was a chance to take advantage of a weakened team, that come the end of the season we could be competing against for a European spot.  We played against a reputation not the actual team that on the park and that, IMO was poor judgement.

 

The dilemma now for the Spurs game is, do we say "well that dint work, we are better with a more attacking formation"  swap it up, go for it and get punished for it?  Personally I would rather see us have a good go, make an exciting game of it, and if we get beat by a better team on the day then so be it.  But then again its not my job that's on the line if we fall short of the points total/position set by the powers that be.

I personally think if Choudhury is to play it's instead of Ndidi or if they both have to play together then Maddison or Tielemans drops to the bench. Towards the end of last season it was Ndidi who was getting subbed off and Choudhury favoured to play the DCM role with the usual 4 advanced midfielders doing what we do best. Choudhury has now proven to Rodgers to be integral and I think this is what's a dilemma for BR currently, he seemingly doesn't dare drop Ndidi which I can understand. However, for the benefit of the rest of the team and our short term success we can't afford for both of them to play together and ultimately it's unnecessary, especially from the off in games.

 

5 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Feel a bit sorry for Rodgers to be honest. All the hype and expectation came because of his reputation. He's always said it will take time to get his methods fully across and nothing has changed in that respect. Some fans are now showing disappointment at the first hiccup and blaming Rodgers because their own high expectations are not as immediate as they'd like. Just chill out, put your tactics boards back in their cases and give the fella some working space.

We are showing disappointment because it's fairly obvious to us lot that we aren't playing to our strengths. This isn't some sort of blinkered fan view either. Bar the Newcastle home game there hasn't been a game where we've played 4-1-4-1 with Maddison and Tielemans together under Rodgers where we haven't looked effective, likewise the only game where for the majority of it did we look anywhere near the real danger that we are was against Bournemouth when low and behold we deployed the 4-1-4-1 formation and Vardy, Maddison, Tielemans and Ricardo were dynamite once again. I have zero sympathy for Rodgers right now.

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I like Rodgers, I think he’ll do well here...I hope he’ll do well here, I think he gets it in the main. 

 

I don’t quite understand how he could stand on the sideline and watch Vardy’s performance against Bournemouth and then two weeks later set us up to totally negate him playing like that again. He’s our talisman, if he’s up for it and firing then the other 10 usually follow. I can’t help but feel that Rodgers shafted us a bit on Saturday. Saving grace is that he will hopefully learn quickly. 

 

No need to panic though, seen more positives already this season to know we’re on good ground and in decent hands. 

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Maddison scores that sitter in the first 5 minutes at the weekend and we probably go on to win that game.

 

We've gone away to Old Trafford, put in one of the worst performances since we got promoted and we lost 1-0 from a soft penalty. Talk of them missing all their best players was well wide of the mark. Barring Shaw and Pogba, that was a full strength Man United team. A side that finished 12 points higher than us last season.

 

People are acting like the 4-3-3 with Maddison cutting in from the left has us in the bottom 3. A lot of people need a real reality check. It's still a bloody young team. Only Evans, Kasper and Vardy were older than 26 in the side that played at the weekend (including subs).

 

5 games into the season and we're 2 points off Man City having played 3 teams that finished above us last season, everyone on here would have ripped your arm off for that.

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21 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Since Arsenal at home last season he has deployed Maddison as a left winger and two DCM's against all of the supposed big 6 clubs as well as vs Wolves at home and Sheff Utd away, I've seen precious little learning quickly from him. He is stubborn beyond belief so far.

 

It was only when he brought Barnes on vs Arsenal at half time did we tear them apart and look at the performances vs Man City, Chelsea at home, Wolves at home, Chelsea away and Man Utd and out of all of that only the 2nd half vs Chelsea away have we shown any sort of attacking prowess. In all of those games Vardy has been a complete passenger by and large as well, a player who in the past has had an outrageous record vs the top clubs. I'm perturbed to say the least.

I agree with this by and large. However I think in those games you’ve mentioned we’ve been “in” the game for large periods, where as previously under other managers we’d have been swept aside fairly easily, Man City away springs to my mind I thought we played well that night (know we didn’t create much so I get your point but I wasn’t expecting us to go there and have 15 shots). 

 

I’m not making excuses for him, I’m trying to rationalise it in my own mind. I think we’re all of the opinion that he’s here to try and raise his stock to get a top job down the line, I don’t have a problem with that but he hasn’t got a chance of doing that if he keeps putting a rope around his own neck as he did at the weekend. 

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Please, please just play our best team if they're all fit.

 

                  Schmeichel

Ricardo  Evans  Söyüncü  Chilwell

                       Ndidi

          Tielemans  Maddison

Albrighton                          Barnes

                       Vardy

Edited by Beechey
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34 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Maddison scores that sitter in the first 5 minutes at the weekend and we probably go on to win that game.

 

We've gone away to Old Trafford, put in one of the worst performances since we got promoted and we lost 1-0 from a soft penalty. Talk of them missing all their best players was well wide of the mark. Barring Shaw and Pogba, that was a full strength Man United team. A side that finished 12 points higher than us last season.

 

People are acting like the 4-3-3 with Maddison cutting in from the left has us in the bottom 3. A lot of people need a real reality check. It's still a bloody young team. Only Evans, Kasper and Vardy were older than 26 in the side that played at the weekend (including subs).

 

5 games into the season and we're 2 points off Man City having played 3 teams that finished above us last season, everyone on here would have ripped your arm off for that.

Behave. We didn't play well but that wasn't a patch on some of the utter tripe served up under Shakespeare and in Ranieri's second season.

 

That was comfortably the worst man united team we've played at old trafford in the 21 years since we last beat them there.

I'm not sure people are worried about relegation, just a missed opportunity - but you raise a fair point about how expectations have changed.

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38 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Maddison scores that sitter in the first 5 minutes at the weekend and we probably go on to win that game.

 

We've gone away to Old Trafford, put in one of the worst performances since we got promoted and we lost 1-0 from a soft penalty. Talk of them missing all their best players was well wide of the mark. Barring Shaw and Pogba, that was a full strength Man United team. A side that finished 12 points higher than us last season.

 

People are acting like the 4-3-3 with Maddison cutting in from the left has us in the bottom 3. A lot of people need a real reality check. It's still a bloody young team. Only Evans, Kasper and Vardy were older than 26 in the side that played at the weekend (including subs).

 

5 games into the season and we're 2 points off Man City having played 3 teams that finished above us last season, everyone on here would have ripped your arm off for that.

And yet 5 games in to the season we genuinely could be in the top 2 had we played to our strengths every game, we have nothing to fear from almost anyone in this league and i'm bemused we seem to be treading carefully around a lot of dross. Man Utd, Chelsea, plenty of them go from the sublime to the ridiculous and yet we treat them with far too much respect at trying to contain them when we should let them worry about containing us and go for it. Rodgers came with a reputation of not bowing down to teams supposedly better than his but that is completely at odds with what's happening at Leicester.

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15 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

The slow starts point is true. It's not quite Puel bad (where going 1-0 down in the first 10 minutes was practically a given) but you can't say it's been sorted ether. We always take too long to get going in nearly every game.

 

When dd we last score a goal in the first 10 minutes?

 

Vardy scored after 12 against Bournemouth which is early enough.

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5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

And yet 5 games in to the season we genuinely could be in the top 2 had we played to our strengths every game, we have nothing to fear from almost anyone in this league and i'm bemused we seem to be treading carefully around a lot of dross. Man Utd, Chelsea, plenty of them go from the sublime to the ridiculous and yet we treat them with far too much respect at trying to contain them when we should let them worry about containing us and go for it. Rodgers came with a reputation of not bowing down to teams supposedly better than his but that is completely at odds with what's happening at Leicester.

Could it just be that we aren't actually that good? We're still a team with a lot of young, inconsistent players and a handful of very average ones. In reality, I don't think we're far removed at all from the dross you talk about. In the second half at Utd we went to the setup basically everyone agrees is our best and didn't have a shot on target. Maybe this is an overly negative assessment but so far this season we've looked intensely average and I just can't see that we're a change of formation and mindset away from strolling into the top six.

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