Ben Chilwell

[murphy]

3 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Plenty never thought Vardy would amount to anything though, it’s the same principle, we should support our players.

I hate this Vardy comparison argument.  His rise was meteoric and exceptional.  It was almost witchcraft.  I never saw it coming, did you?

 

You can't use it as a benchmark to claim that underperforming players will follow that trajectory if we just sit tight and wait.  Mostly, poor players stay poor and end up being shown the door and the list of those kind of players is much longer than the one freakish example of JV.  Plenty wanted Musa gone.  Kicking themselves now aren't they?  Well... no.

 

I'm not making any kind of point about Chilwell here, I think we should support him, but let's bury this lazy Vardy comparison that gets trotted out so regularly.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

I hate this Vardy comparison argument.  His rise was meteoric and exceptional.  It was almost witchcraft.  I never saw it coming, did you?

 

You can't use it as a benchmark to claim that underperforming players will follow that trajectory if we just sit tight and wait.  Mostly, poor players stay poor and end up being shown the door and the list of those kind of players is much longer than the one freakish example of JV.  Plenty wanted Musa gone.  Kicking themselves now aren't they?  Well... no.

 

I'm not making any kind of point about Chilwell here, I think we should support him, but let's bury this lazy Vardy comparison that gets trotted out so regularly.

I disagree. The point being made is that people are too quick to write players off and sell them, and the Vardy example shows just how badly wrong people can be, and probably are most of the time. It's dead easy to gob off because a player displeases us, less easy to be patient.

[nettle]

10 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I disagree. The point being made is that people are too quick to write players off and sell them, and the Vardy example shows just how badly wrong people can be, and probably are most of the time. It's dead easy to gob off because a player displeases us, less easy to be patient.

Everyone sees different things in different players, you'll probably be the first to moan if Chilwell clears off to Chelsea quoting a lack of loyalty or something like that. 

[nettle]

4 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Plenty never thought Vardy would amount to anything though, it’s the same principle, we should support our players.

In my opinion it's a crap comparison they are totally different in every way. 

[HighPeakFox]

7 hours ago, nettle said:

Everyone sees different things in different players, you'll probably be the first to moan if Chilwell clears off to Chelsea quoting a lack of loyalty or something like that. 

I think you've a) decided to miss the point and b) aimed your speculation at the wrong poster.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

9 hours ago, nettle said:

In my opinion it's a crap comparison they are totally different in every way. 

It’s not a crap comparison at all, but you have your opinion and are entitled to it, I’m using it to state the bloody obvious that fans are so fickle that players should be so easily binned after a poor run of form, it was the same for Vardy, there’s the comparison, it’s all relative. 
I’ve not compared the 2 players, I could of used any number of examples.

[Guest An Sionnach]

There is too much black and white with Chilwell, basically he is  good player out of form , which may or may not be down to lifestyle , media crap or even Rodgers. What he isn't is brilliant or rubbish . My own opinion is LB may not be his best position , Wing Back maybe or Left Midfield , his defensive game is not strong enough for a back four set-up. However he has a lot of attacking talent and an eye for goal. Gareth Bale made the same journey and although Chilwell is not in his class he is plenty good enough for top premiership football.

[murphy]

9 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I disagree. The point being made is that people are too quick to write players off and sell them, and the Vardy example shows just how badly wrong people can be, and probably are most of the time. It's dead easy to gob off because a player displeases us, less easy to be patient.

Fair enough.

 

I understand the point, but I take issue with JV being used as an example.  His rise was so stratospheric that he is an outlier and his story it is unlikely to be repeated.  A bit like us winning the league.  Yes, it happened, but to use him as a benchmark actually weakens the argument imo as it is unrealistic.

 

I think that if you wanted to make a case advocating patience for under par players, then Nacho would be a better example.  He was written off by many, including myself, but has shown through hard work and perseverance that he is becoming closer to the player that we thought we signed and good for him!  Glad to be proven wrong, however for every Nacho or even Vardy, if you must, there is a long list of Musas, Inlers, Silvas, Ghezzals etc that never made it and never would have.  At some point, you have to recognise this and bring in the players that will perform otherwise the team will suffer.

 

In my opinion you can't make any kind of rule to fit hindsight.  For example, just because player A made it, that doesn't mean player B will and just because player C failed, it doesn't mean that player D will.  They're all individuals and I think that you should treat every case individually and any opinion is valid.

 

FWIW and back OT, my own view with Chilwell is that we should support him, particularly at the ground and particularly as a young player going through a tough time.  However, he is probably the most replaceable of all our assets.  I'm in no hurry to sell him but if a big money offer does come in during the summer, I would probably take it to invest in other areas of the team such as to find that elusive stellar RW or to find a top class CB.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

10 hours ago, murphy said:

I hate this Vardy comparison argument.  His rise was meteoric and exceptional.  It was almost witchcraft.  I never saw it coming, did you?

 

You can't use it as a benchmark to claim that underperforming players will follow that trajectory if we just sit tight and wait.  Mostly, poor players stay poor and end up being shown the door and the list of those kind of players is much longer than the one freakish example of JV.  Plenty wanted Musa gone.  Kicking themselves now aren't they?  Well... no.

 

I'm not making any kind of point about Chilwell here, I think we should support him, but let's bury this lazy Vardy comparison that gets trotted out so regularly.

No I didn’t but I also wasn’t on here saying we should take WBA’s cash, it’s an example of how fickle football fans are.

I don’t believe Chilwell is a poor player, I just think we should support our young players not crucify them, it’s been a great season so far and we should get behind the team instead of continually moaning.

[Dahnsouff]

The obvious concern with panning Ben, warranted or otherwise, is that this attitude itself sets a precedent.

So lets say JJ plays the next 2 games and does well, then plays badly for 2. He will be given an initial "pass" from the fans (He's young, he's new, he did well before, etc, etc).

In a month, its gone, he now sh*t, and should loaned to Luton next season. We need to support (Not praise when they are doing badly) always the young players.

 

 

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

No I didn’t but I also wasn’t on here saying we should take WBA’s cash, it’s an example of how fickle football fans are.

I don’t believe Chilwell is a poor player, I just think we should support our young players not crucify them, it’s been a great season so far and we should get behind the team instead of continually moaning.

How is it fickle?  Since no one, not you, me or anybody else saw JV's rise coming, then it would have been perfectly reasonable for some fans to want to accept an offer in the best interests of the team.  I think I felt fairly neutral about it.  Seems ridiculous now, but that's hindsight for you, it isn't the same as being fickle.

 

I do agree with you about supporting young players

[deep blue]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

How is it fickle?  Since no one, not you, me or anybody else saw JV's rise coming, then it would have been perfectly reasonable for some fans to want to accept an offer in the best interests of the team.  I think I felt fairly neutral about it.  Seems ridiculous now, but that's hindsight for you, it isn't the same as being fickle.

 

I do agree with you about supporting young players

You have no right to lump all contributors in the same category. I, and many other posters, stuck by Vardy through his poor period and saw that he had much to offer (which is not to say that I foresaw that he would rise to as high a level as he has).

[NotTheMarketLeader]

14 hours ago, Angus Scott said:

After reading that the majority of posts on here think that Chilwell is useless, I can only conclude that these people are complete idiots & have certainly never seen some of the dross that has played at left back for us in the past

Yes let’s base Chilwell’s performances on the past then,  not this season. 🤔

 

He would have been a decent player for The Fosse circa 1882.

[Bluetintedspecs]

I would not join the Chilwell bashing, however, if we follow our policy from the last few seasons selling one major asset, I would not be devastated if it was him, especially if for a fee north of 65 mil.

[murphy]

23 minutes ago, deep blue said:

You have no right to lump all contributors in the same category. I, and many other posters, stuck by Vardy through his poor period and saw that he had much to offer (which is not to say that I foresaw that he would rise to as high a level as he has).

That's why I said 'some fans'.   

[Stoopid]

43 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Yes let’s base Chilwell’s performances on the past then,  not this season. 🤔

 

He would have been a decent player for The Fosse circa 1882.

Bit harsh since we weren't founded till 1884.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

42 minutes ago, Stoopid said:

Bit harsh since we weren't founded till 1884.

😆 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

Well Ben was ahead of his time back then.

[Stadt]

Finally out the team, Justin plays well at LB and then Pereira gets injured

 

 

[Stadt]

Quite good at general attacking play but not crossing. Doesn't tackle much and the win rate is low 

https://t.co/EaF41gDfIf?amp=1

[deep blue]

On 12/03/2020 at 11:01, murphy said:

That's why I said 'some fans'.   

You conveniently forgot saying "no one, not you, me or anybody else saw JV's rise coming". That seems to cover ALL fans.

[murphy]

3 minutes ago, deep blue said:

You conveniently forgot saying "no one, not you, me or anybody else saw JV's rise coming". That seems to cover ALL fans.

That's not the point being questioned is it?  Even the person I was replying to admitted that he didn't see his transformation coming.  No one did, so I stand by that.  If you can find me someone who foresaw Vardy's transformation from the 14/15 version to the supercharged 15/16 version I will change my opinion but I'm pretty sure that you won't. 

 

Irrelevant really as he we were talking about 'some fans' (not me by the way) wanting to accept an offer for him at the end of the 14/15 season.

 

If you must wade in, at least read through first.

[foxile5]

11 minutes ago, murphy said:

That's not the point being questioned is it?  Even the person I was replying to admitted that he didn't see his transformation coming.  No one did, so I stand by that.  If you can find me someone who foresaw Vardy's transformation from the 14/15 version to the supercharged 15/16 version I will change my opinion but I'm pretty sure that you won't. 

 

Irrelevant really as he we were talking about 'some fans' (not me by the way) wanting to accept an offer for him at the end of the 14/15 season.

 

If you must wade in, at least read through first.

A mate of mine repeatedly told me he'd be the next big thing. 

 

More in hope than judgement I've always assumed. 

[murphy]

1 hour ago, foxile5 said:

A mate of mine repeatedly told me he'd be the next big thing. 

 

More in hope than judgement I've always assumed. 

Yeah, but...

 

OK, I give up!

[Tielemans63]

Can't help but feel that Chilwell is somehow responsible for the coronavirus outbreak.

[NaijaFox]

2 hours ago, Paddy. said:

Can't help but feel that Chilwell is somehow responsible for the coronavirus outbreak.

Too soon...