Tactics Talk:

[volpeazzurro]

Yes, Rodgers got it right. Evans presence really helped Soyuncu and Armarty who both played well. In fairness, they all played well but it was more than that for me. It was more than it just being a big game against United or a Liverpool also. It was if they had been given day release from their shackles.

 

Whilst in the first half, there were initial signs of tentative nervous sideways and backwards passing at times, it was almost as if they'd been given permission to attempt more speculative movement and passing. 

 

This increased greatly in the second half because I think confidence and belief grew very quickly, particularly when rewards were being reaped because let's be honest, we could have scored a couple more goals with a little more luck, United were indeed fortunate at times.

 

This has to have come from Rodgers so fair play to him but, haven't many on here been calling for such an approach for quite a while now? Vardy and Iheanacho for a start up front was a no brainer. We've always known from our starts to the last two seasons that we have the capability and talent to play fast flowing pressing football. 

 

Now is not the time to retreat back into our shell. Embrace the moment and although players and formations may have to change due to the opposition or availability of certain players, the more ambitious yet sometimes speculative approach doesn't. So what if we lose the odd match going down fighting! It has to be better than the possession at all costs dirge that we've been having to watch because it's not as if it's been successful in terms of results, in fact it was slowly killing us!

 

Whilst the media seem more obsessed with how bad United were or what should  happen to Ole, no real mention as per usual was made on perhaps it wasn't that they were simply  having a bad day, but it may just have been that little old Leicester were bloody good as it happens! For was it ever thus!

 

Well done Brendan, more of the same please.

[davieG]

https://www.the42.ie/tactics-board-shane-keegan-leicester-city-man-united-5577644-Oct2021/

 

Tactics Board: Tielemans destroys Pogba as Leicester highlight Man United's problems
Shane Keegan takes a closer look at Saturday’s six-goal thriller, which has piled more pressure on Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

[StriderHiryu]

 

 

This is a great video to showcase "sideways passing" and "tippy tappy" football. In this sequence of play we keep the ball for over a minute working the ball from side to side, back and forth. At around 53 seconds, Man U make a poor attempt to press Amartey, and leave gaps in the spaces the pressing players vacate. A few more passes and Tielemans and Maddison completely carve open Man U, playing through the middle of the park to setup Iheanacho who given his quality should score.

 

I know it's often frustrating to watch us passing it between our players at the back, but this is exactly the result we are aiming to achieve through doing that.

[st albans fox]

29 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

 

This is a great video to showcase "sideways passing" and "tippy tappy" football. In this sequence of play we keep the ball for over a minute working the ball from side to side, back and forth. At around 53 seconds, Man U make a poor attempt to press Amartey, and leave gaps in the spaces the pressing players vacate. A few more passes and Tielemans and Maddison completely carve open Man U, playing through the middle of the park to setup Iheanacho who given his quality should score.

 

I know it's often frustrating to watch us passing it between our players at the back, but this is exactly the result we are aiming to achieve through doing that.

Those who don't like it will just ask why we cant play it down a channel and see what happens ?

 

they forget that this also risks our midfield being caught the wrong side of the play if we push too far forward in response to that 'long ball'.  the modern game is so much more like a game of chess and just because you want to play a different style doesn't mean the opposition has to agree.  maybe things will evolve back to how they used to be but i wouldn't bet on it 

 

[jmono84]

34 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

 

This is a great video to showcase "sideways passing" and "tippy tappy" football. In this sequence of play we keep the ball for over a minute working the ball from side to side, back and forth. At around 53 seconds, Man U make a poor attempt to press Amartey, and leave gaps in the spaces the pressing players vacate. A few more passes and Tielemans and Maddison completely carve open Man U, playing through the middle of the park to setup Iheanacho who given his quality should score.

 

I know it's often frustrating to watch us passing it between our players at the back, but this is exactly the result we are aiming to achieve through doing that.

I wish Nacho spotted Ricardo at the end tho. Could have been something magical if we’d have scored.

[An Sionnach]

19 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Those who don't like it will just ask why we cant play it down a channel and see what happens ?

 

they forget that this also risks our midfield being caught the wrong side of the play if we push too far forward in response to that 'long ball'.  the modern game is so much more like a game of chess and just because you want to play a different style doesn't mean the opposition has to agree.  maybe things will evolve back to how they used to be but i wouldn't bet on it 

 

Man. Utd. half hearted pressing allowed us to get away with that, Brentford will do nothing of the sort and will be right in our faces. They push us back and the ball ends up with Kasper. He then will have little room for manoeuvre and boot it.

[Facecloth]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

 

This is a great video to showcase "sideways passing" and "tippy tappy" football. In this sequence of play we keep the ball for over a minute working the ball from side to side, back and forth. At around 53 seconds, Man U make a poor attempt to press Amartey, and leave gaps in the spaces the pressing players vacate. A few more passes and Tielemans and Maddison completely carve open Man U, playing through the middle of the park to setup Iheanacho who given his quality should score.

 

I know it's often frustrating to watch us passing it between our players at the back, but this is exactly the result we are aiming to achieve through doing that.

That pass to Tielemans from Amartey helped too. It was slightly riskier as Tielemans was being pressed as he received the ball, but it pulled the man utd player out of position and opened up space.

[messerschmitt]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

 

This is a great video to showcase "sideways passing" and "tippy tappy" football. In this sequence of play we keep the ball for over a minute working the ball from side to side, back and forth. At around 53 seconds, Man U make a poor attempt to press Amartey, and leave gaps in the spaces the pressing players vacate. A few more passes and Tielemans and Maddison completely carve open Man U, playing through the middle of the park to setup Iheanacho who given his quality should score.

 

I know it's often frustrating to watch us passing it between our players at the back, but this is exactly the result we are aiming to achieve through doing that.

I'm absolutely fine with this, ball is moved quickly often one touch looking for options but too often this season the passing we've seen has been nothing like this. It's been much deeper on a line between the penalty area and half way line and has been the two centre half's and then full back and back, slowly at walking pace and you can see who's going to get it next.

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

 

This is a great video to showcase "sideways passing" and "tippy tappy" football. In this sequence of play we keep the ball for over a minute working the ball from side to side, back and forth. At around 53 seconds, Man U make a poor attempt to press Amartey, and leave gaps in the spaces the pressing players vacate. A few more passes and Tielemans and Maddison completely carve open Man U, playing through the middle of the park to setup Iheanacho who given his quality should score.

 

I know it's often frustrating to watch us passing it between our players at the back, but this is exactly the result we are aiming to achieve through doing that.

Bouba could have slid Maddison in on about 4 seconds, if Maddison gets that and turns, he has the option to shoot or slide in Vardy or Kel.

Edited 19 October 2021 by filbertway

[NasPb]

14 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

I'm absolutely fine with this, ball is moved quickly often one touch looking for options but too often this season the passing we've seen has been nothing like this. It's been much deeper on a line between the penalty area and half way line and has been the two centre half's and then full back and back, slowly at walking pace and you can see who's going to get it next.

Ball is moving and players are as well. As it should be always 

[StriderHiryu]

34 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

I'm absolutely fine with this, ball is moved quickly often one touch looking for options but too often this season the passing we've seen has been nothing like this. It's been much deeper on a line between the penalty area and half way line and has been the two centre half's and then full back and back, slowly at walking pace and you can see who's going to get it next.

Totally agree. Passing this season has been done at round half the speed shown in that clip. When passing is smooth and crisp, we can open up anyone.

 

As others have said, Brentford will be an entirely different proposition as they press the game like we did against Man United. 3-3 at home to Liverpool and a narrow defeat to Chelsea where they deserved a point minimum makes it a tough place and tough team to play.

[st albans fox]

32 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Bouba could have slid Maddison in on about 4 seconds, if Maddison gets that and turns, he has the option to shoot or slide in Vardy or Kel.

True - he obvs didn’t realise the opportunity that was in front of him. Maybe lacked the confidence to make the pass ? 

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

True - he obvs didn’t realise the opportunity that was in front of him. Maybe lacked the confidence to make the pass ? 

I'm not sure how he missed it to be honest, but we spent another minute knocking the ball around, almost losing it 2 or 3 times, once in a dangerous position.

 

I'm not sure how that's preferable to moving the ball around sideways and backwards for 2 minutes while the other team holds shape (which most invariably do, waiting for us to make a stray pass). Based on the past 10 months, that method seems to be high risk for low reward.

 

I think we looked much better when shifting the ball forwards quickly and then looking to win that ball or win it back quickly if the opposition defence got it. 

[messerschmitt]

49 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Totally agree. Passing this season has been done at round half the speed shown in that clip. When passing is smooth and crisp, we can open up anyone.

 

As others have said, Brentford will be an entirely different proposition as they press the game like we did against Man United. 3-3 at home to Liverpool and a narrow defeat to Chelsea where they deserved a point minimum makes it a tough place and tough team to play.

Yeah can't believe the space they gave us, and yeah Brentford absolutely battered Chelsea in the last quarter of the game

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Those who don't like it will just ask why we cant play it down a channel and see what happens ?

 

they forget that this also risks our midfield being caught the wrong side of the play if we push too far forward in response to that 'long ball'.  the modern game is so much more like a game of chess and just because you want to play a different style doesn't mean the opposition has to agree.  maybe things will evolve back to how they used to be but i wouldn't bet on it 

 

We weren't under much pressure there though in fairness were we. Invariably what's been happening in those sorts of sequences, is that the opposition have been a little more aggressive than a pathetic United example there and we get dispossessed or misplace a pass much earlier on. That has been our huge downfall. Even there, our movement wasn't great but United's was far worse and almost pedestrian. There is absolutely no problem with the occasional ball over the top or down the channels, arguably we won the Premiership by executing it well! I did think we mixed it up a bit more once Saturday but, if we don't continue in Saturdays vein, then don't be surprised to see us languishing mid table. 

[Lambert09]

On 17/10/2021 at 14:48, The whole world smiles said:

For once Rodgers got it right? Behave mate he has the highest win rate of any manager in the clubs history. 

He's probably the closest ive come to a manager doing what Im thinking when Im thinking it. So obviously in my opinion he makes the right changes. 

 

There are the exceptions, of course but that comes down to fear more than perhaps his logic (Praet for iheanacho at bmouth ... perhaps even morgan in the FA Cup final was imo not the wisest call but obviously it worked out in the end) 

[jerry]

On 17/10/2021 at 22:17, volpeazzurro said:

Yes, Rodgers got it right. Evans presence really helped Soyuncu and Armarty who both played well. In fairness, they all played well but it was more than that for me. It was more than it just being a big game against United or a Liverpool also. It was if they had been given day release from their shackles.

 

Whilst in the first half, there were initial signs of tentative nervous sideways and backwards passing at times, it was almost as if they'd been given permission to attempt more speculative movement and passing. 

 

This increased greatly in the second half because I think confidence and belief grew very quickly, particularly when rewards were being reaped because let's be honest, we could have scored a couple more goals with a little more luck, United were indeed fortunate at times.

 

This has to have come from Rodgers so fair play to him but, haven't many on here been calling for such an approach for quite a while now? Vardy and Iheanacho for a start up front was a no brainer. We've always known from our starts to the last two seasons that we have the capability and talent to play fast flowing pressing football. 

 

Now is not the time to retreat back into our shell. Embrace the moment and although players and formations may have to change due to the opposition or availability of certain players, the more ambitious yet sometimes speculative approach doesn't. So what if we lose the odd match going down fighting! It has to be better than the possession at all costs dirge that we've been having to watch because it's not as if it's been successful in terms of results, in fact it was slowly killing us!

 

Whilst the media seem more obsessed with how bad United were or what should  happen to Ole, no real mention as per usual was made on perhaps it wasn't that they were simply  having a bad day, but it may just have been that little old Leicester were bloody good as it happens! For was it ever thus!

 

Well done Brendan, more of the same please.

agree entirely but in Rodgers defence I imagine with Evans and Fofana in the side it would have given us licence to be more expansive, Iheanacho., Would always start with Jamie in my opinion though.

[Guest SO1]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Those who don't like it will just ask why we cant play it down a channel and see what happens ?

 

they forget that this also risks our midfield being caught the wrong side of the play if we push too far forward in response to that 'long ball'.  the modern game is so much more like a game of chess and just because you want to play a different style doesn't mean the opposition has to agree.  maybe things will evolve back to how they used to be but i wouldn't bet on it 

 

Seems simple to me. The longer the pass the more risk of losing possession. Can't score if we don't have the ball. Makes more sense to take chances further up the pitch where we have a better chance of retaining possession and scoring.

 

Not saying we shouldn't take a risk should one present itself to our defenders who are capable of making that pass. Just that those defenders are in short supply given the state of Fofana and Evans and the newness of Vestergaard. Really puts the heat on Soyuncu who's the only back with that pass in his game. It was nice to see how well Soyuncu played with Evans next to him and not having to put out fires on a regular basis.

 

If we don't keep the ball or press effectively than the whole system comes tumbling down with the ball coming back at our defenders again and again and we know how that works out.  Maybe thats why the pressing game was invented to create more possession......more control.

[StriderHiryu]

12 minutes ago, SO1 said:

Seems simple to me. The longer the pass the more risk of losing possession. Can't score if we don't have the ball. Makes more sense to take chances further up the pitch where we have a better chance of retaining possession and scoring.

 

Not saying we shouldn't take a risk should one present itself to our defenders who are capable of making that pass. Just that those defenders are in short supply given the state of Fofana and Evans and the newness of Vestergaard. Really puts the heat on Soyuncu who's the only back with that pass in his game. It was nice to see how well Soyuncu played with Evans next to him and not having to put out fires on a regular basis.

 

If we don't keep the ball or press effectively than the whole system comes tumbling down with the ball coming back at our defenders again and again and we know how that works out.  Maybe thats why the pressing game was invented to create more

 

possession......more control.

100% that's why.

 

Here is Barcelona legend Xavi, currently coaching in Qatar explaining why his (and Pep's) teams press. In fact this is a brilliant insight into one of the best midfielders of all time and how he thinks about the game. It's based on principles from Rinus Michels, Johan Cruyff, Guardiola, etc.

 

 

Essentially it's:

- Possession means control of the game. Control means the opponent can't hurt you, but you can hurt them.

- Not just possession for the sake of it. Possession to make high quality opportunities.

- Create numerical superiority in key areas of the pitch to maximise the number of opportunities created.

- Pressing retains possession and control.

- High pressing means opponents are forced to play the long ball to get out. This is a risk, but if you win the long ball duel, the opponent is out of position and even more susceptible to mistakes.

- Players should learn to love having the ball at their feet. Encourage players to play with the ball and manipulate it than punt it long and lose it.

 

In Rodger's early days he spent time out in Spain observing and studying at La Masia, so you can see many of his principles in play at Leicester City as a result.

 

It's fascinating to see Xavi talk about this as many have predicted him to take over at Barcelona when they get their financial problems resolved. I think he's being very smart in coaching in a country completely out of sight so he can learn his trade and make mistakes now before taking the inevitable big job when it comes his way.

 

 

[davieG]

https://www.theanalyst.com/eu/2021/10/tactical-snapshot-premier-league-md8/

 

Vardy Doing Vardy Things
Jamie Vardy scored his 125th Premier League goal against Manchester United on Saturday, taking him level with Nicolas Anelka as the joint-16th highest goal scorer in Premier League history.

[volpeazzurro]

6 hours ago, jerry said:

agree entirely but in Rodgers defence I imagine with Evans and Fofana in the side it would have given us licence to be more expansive, Iheanacho., Would always start with Jamie in my opinion though.

True, but if you haven't got those two players that are clearly very comfortable on the ball, then perhaps you have to either play more to the strengths of the players you have and possibly add some protection also. However, at the weekend, it was only Evans that was back of the two and albeit he was a huge influence, Armarty and Soyuncu did so well also. 

 

Totally agree re the same two up front. If nothing else, it's a hell of a distraction and problem for opposition defences and gives them more to worry about other than pressing us.

[MPH]

My favorite are the orange ones. Surprisingly good.

 

 

 

what do you all think?

[st albans fox]

Already pointed out above how Man U targeted Dan when he had the ball (though not particularly well) . I felt that Dan had one of his best games in this regard and he didn’t look the bomb scare in possession that he often has in the past ……..

 

if the coaching team are working with him on this then perhaps we will renew his contract ………

 

 

[Guest SO1]

17 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

100% that's why.

 

Here is Barcelona legend Xavi, currently coaching in Qatar explaining why his (and Pep's) teams press. In fact this is a brilliant insight into one of the best midfielders of all time and how he thinks about the game. It's based on principles from Rinus Michels, Johan Cruyff, Guardiola, etc.

 

 

Essentially it's:

- Possession means control of the game. Control means the opponent can't hurt you, but you can hurt them.

- Not just possession for the sake of it. Possession to make high quality opportunities.

- Create numerical superiority in key areas of the pitch to maximise the number of opportunities created.

- Pressing retains possession and control.

- High pressing means opponents are forced to play the long ball to get out. This is a risk, but if you win the long ball duel, the opponent is out of position and even more susceptible to mistakes.

- Players should learn to love having the ball at their feet. Encourage players to play with the ball and manipulate it than punt it long and lose it.

 

In Rodger's early days he spent time out in Spain observing and studying at La Masia, so you can see many of his principles in play at Leicester City as a result.

 

It's fascinating to see Xavi talk about this as many have predicted him to take over at Barcelona when they get their financial problems resolved. I think he's being very smart in coaching in a country completely out of sight so he can learn his trade and make mistakes now before taking the inevitable big job when it comes his way.

 

 

Thanks for this. Watched it two or three times and I'm sure between watching the board and reading the translation that I'm starting to understand pressing and its sequencing. Reminds me of trying to explain how to build a complex piece of furniture with the multiple steps,decisions and thought processes that go with it. And that's before I even cut a piece of wood. Gives me a special appreciation for managers/coaches and how they teach the game on the pitch and the board. Although I've never played it did remind me of Chess.

[An Sionnach]

Xavi of course had the benefit of two of the greatest players of all time along side him. Guardiola took his tactics to Bayern and was less successful. Personally although very good,  Man.City without the formidable Aguero are not a team to be feared and when KDB doesn't play can be outmaneuvered by teams like Chelsea , who play a totally different way. We have fast forwards in Barnes, Daka and Vardy and our tactics have to make use of that.