Tactics Talk:

[Deeg67]

21 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Xavi of course had the benefit of two of the greatest players of all time along side him. Guardiola took his tactics to Bayern and was less successful.

75% win percentage, won the Bundesliga every season, never less than the semi-finals of the UCL.  Bloody awful he was.

[An Sionnach]

18 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

75% win percentage, won the Bundesliga every season, never less than the semi-finals of the UCL.  Bloody awful he was.

To be fair, the Bayern machine largely runs itself. The debate is whether possession football in itself gets the job done. I believe( as do some others) that the tide is turning. Of course letting you possession stats fall below 40% is not a good idea.

[Deeg67]

Per Guardiala records:

 

Quote

 

Records:

-Most consecutive wins in La liga, Bundesliga and the Premier league

-Youngest ever manager to win the Champions League

-1st manager to retain the league title in Spain, Germany and England

-Only manager in football history to win 6 trophies in a calendar year
-Most knockout wins in Champions league history

-Best record of any manager after 100 European games(W61 D23 L16)

-Only manager to win the domestic treble in England

-First manager in Spain to win a treble of La Liga, Copa del rey and Champions League in one season
-Only manager in Pl history to get 100 points in a season

-Most points ever over 2 Pl seasons(198)

-1 of only 3 managers in PL history to win back to back league titles

-Most goals ever in a Pl season

-Most wins in a Pl season

-Biggest title winning margin in Pl history
-Most records broke in a Pl season(12)

-Quickest manager in Pl history to 100 wins

-Most wins after 150 Pl matches (111)

-Best points per game ratio in Pl history
-First foreign coach to win 3 Bundesliga titles

-Highest number of points in a debut season in the Bundesliga

-Earliest title win in Bundesliga history

-First coach to win the Bundesliga title in each of his first 3 seasons
Guardiolas Bayern scored 254 goals in 102 league matches - a Bundesliga record

-He's reached a European Cup/ Champions league final in 3 different decades - only manager along with Alex Ferguson to do so

-Longest away winning streak in English top flight history
-Most Champions league semi finals reached (tied with Mourinho on 8)

-Peps Man City are the first English side to win 11 games in a single European Cup/Champions League campaign

-Longest ever winning run by an English team in a Champions League campaign (7 Games)
-quickest manager of an English top-flight side to reach 200 wins in all competitions(273)

-Most wins in a single month in English football (9)

 

 

[An Sionnach]

Guardiola is a brilliant coach, we know that , but he has always had the financial muscle behind him. It would be interesting seeing how he would do managing us.

[Shane]

Wingbacks are vital to our 3-4-1-2 system.

 

We have 3 good wingbacks in Castagne, Ricardo & JJ. Without those 3 we have no pace, no attacking threat & no width down the flanks - all key elements to making a 3-4-1-2 system function properly. 
 

Our other options are poor. Thomas is much better at LB (especially when partnered with Harvey), Albrighton does an ok job & Bertrand isn’t even worth mentioning. We can’t really shoehorn these guys into the wingback position and expect it to work. 

 

[Stadt]

On 17/10/2021 at 20:49, Stadt said:

I hope Rodgers doesn’t do what he’s done quite frequently in the past - have a one off system succeed and then play it in games where it’s not very suitable.

 

352 didn’t work against Legia, an inferior side, so we shouldn’t go to Moscow playing this set up just because it worked against Manchester Utd.

 

 

                     Daka

Barnes     Iheanacho   Lookman

              KDH  Soumare

Thomas  Amartey  Cags Pereira 

                    Kasper

 

A selection similar to this but retain the aggression from Saturday both on and off the ball. KDH, Soumare and Iheanacho all have the ability to play the wingers and Daka in so their defence will be stretched.

 

[st albans fox]

On 20/10/2021 at 13:57, An Sionnach said:

Guardiola is a brilliant coach, we know that , but he has always had the financial muscle behind him. It would be interesting seeing how he would do managing us.

Never gonna find out ! 
 

and he’s never going to risk his legacy by doing anything like that either! 

[CosbehFox]

That Jack Lyons analyst fella Brendan brought in must either be crap at his job or they don’t respect his opinion enough. As @Stadt eluded to the insistence on playing a formation sometimes rather than adapting regardless of form. 
 

We played the same formation yesterday as Villa did the week before v Arsenal. The same players for Arsenal caused the same problems. 

We’ve also got the same set piece routine used by multiple teams against us now and we aren’t doing anything about stopping it 

[Farrington fox]

Tatics, simples. Give ourselves a fighting chance by defending set pieces properly. Then stop giving balls away so cheaply. Arsenals 2nd all stemmed from Vardy playing a poor backward pass into Maddison, who then gave it away. 

[Matt]

Leicester making the same mistakes, playing in the same negative way every game;

[mazarron fox]

Close thread there is no tactics 

[CosbehFox]

Again the analyst team must fecking shit or ignored cos playing that formation was right in their hands. A failure to acknowledge that doing direct or a real deep block against Chelsea is a tactic which gets results. 
 

Instead we held high; allowing that long ball to their wing backs. Had a midfield set up which completely fecked the central two. 
 

Didn’t even the horrible shite like target Rudiger’s short fuse 

[Corky]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Again the analyst team must fecking shit or ignored cos playing that formation was right in their hands. A failure to acknowledge that doing direct or a real deep block against Chelsea is a tactic which gets results. 
 

Instead we held high; allowing that long ball to their wing backs. Had a midfield set up which completely fecked the central two. 
 

Didn’t even the horrible shite like target Rudiger’s short fuse 

Agreed. The whole thing seemed engineered to make life as comfortable for Chelsea as possible.

[Sly]

I think it’s about time we went to 4 at the back, with the full backs offering the width. 
 

Two holding players, would allow us to add some stability to the defence. 
 

                       Kasper

 

Ricardo  Evans   Soyuncu Castagne

 

               N’Didi             Soumare

 

   Tielemans                          Maddison

 

                           Iheanacho 

           Vardy

 

I know it loses the likes of Lookman and Barnes, however we’ve been largely ineffective anyway. 
 

Castage and Ricardo are naturally more attacking full backs. They’d allow us to stretch the pitch with the license to get forwards and allow for more expansive play.
 

N’Didi can sit and allow Soumare to push forward 10 yards. N’Didi dropping in as a third centre back if require during in game transition. Pushing Soumare that bit further forwards allows us to protect the defence with two holding players as well. Potentially Choudhury could do this role, as we’re not so reliant on him being the last line of midfield defence. 
 

With Tielamans and Maddison as inside midfield players and then having the link with Kelechi who naturally sits deeper, we’d have more bodies in adjacent positions and not isolated on the wings, if we ever push forward in the 4-3-3 we currently see our wide players without options and running into blind alleys. This would allow Vardy more support as well, as he’s performed better during the past 12 months, with Iheanacho on the pitch.
 

Having more bodies in midfield, allows us to press higher up the pitch as well, so we’re taking the pressure off the defence. We should also be able to control games more effectively.
 

That’s still a pretty small team, so we’re going to need to scrap the silly zonal marking and move to man to man. Avoid corners if at all possible. Putting men on the posts would be a major step forwards. I know it’s old school and not this hipster thinking, however it works. Kasper also needs to be dominant in his own 6 yard box. 
 

We’re not smart at anticipating where the 2nd ball is going to land either, as if you watch passages of play back, we never anticipate the 2nd ball. This is what Sam Allardyce does well. We’ve got all the technical people, review the data and use it to our advantage. Put the outlets like Vardy in those zones to allow us to move forwards more and take off some of the pressure. 
 

Having Fofana back will be a major boost as he’s more comfortable on the ball at centre back and is capable of driving us forward. He also allows us to

move that 10 yards further up the pitch. 
 

I know that team doesn’t look pretty, however going back to basics, at this point, is maybe what’s required. 

 

Edited 22 November 2021 by Sly

[StriderHiryu]

On 21/11/2021 at 07:33, Cardiff_Fox said:

Again the analyst team must fecking shit or ignored cos playing that formation was right in their hands. A failure to acknowledge that doing direct or a real deep block against Chelsea is a tactic which gets results. 
 

Instead we held high; allowing that long ball to their wing backs. Had a midfield set up which completely fecked the central two. 
 

Didn’t even the horrible shite like target Rudiger’s short fuse 

The idea was to match their 343 shape so we competed with them man for man. We sat off Chelsea looking to counter attack and maybe twice in the match the tactics produced some results; Vardy with a cut back to Lookman that was cut out by Rudiger, and then Lookman's offside goal. But other than that, the tactics did not work out at all.

 

My problem with matching up another team's system is that the other team will be more familiar in that shape than we will be. So we were up against the Champions of Europe and current league leaders who have better players than us, trying to play their system better than they could. The end result was 0-3, which flattered us.

 

On paper I can see why we'd go for something like this, but it didn't work at all. 

[Scotch]

For me, we need to go back to 41221. 

Get Wilf playing solely as a ball winner again infront of a settled back four of Ricardo, Evans, Soyuncu and Castagne. Get Maddison dropped deeper into the second #8 role that he player alongside Youri and use the pace of a front 3 of Vardy, Barnes and Lookman. 

 

Pick a team and stick to it. There are some players there who are majorly out of form but play them into form. Get a settled side and get then playing alongside each other again. They look like strangers. 

 

Get that back four comfortable with each other. Get them trusting that Wilf will protect then and get Maddison and Youri reading and understanding the runs that the front 3 want to make infront of them. 

 

Find a way of playing and play it.

[eblair]

Don’t rate Soumare that highly but he’s being hung out to dry by Brendan with his new Wilf tactic.

 

He’s playing wilf noticeably higher up the pitch and it’s rubbish. Done it most games this year and has no benefit 

[Deeg67]

No one seems to be asking what seems to me a quite pertinent question.  If we play a single striker, are we better off starting Daka than Vardy?  Maybe not (yet) but the matter is worth discussion.  

[NasPb]

4 hours ago, eblair said:

Don’t rate Soumare that highly but he’s being hung out to dry by Brendan with his new Wilf tactic.

 

He’s playing wilf noticeably higher up the pitch and it’s rubbish. Done it most games this year and has no benefit 

Agreed, wilf is a destroyer, should be like a brick wall holding down the midfield not pressing 24/7 high up 

[FoxesWalk]

5 hours ago, eblair said:

Don’t rate Soumare that highly but he’s being hung out to dry by Brendan with his new Wilf tactic.

 

He’s playing wilf noticeably higher up the pitch and it’s rubbish. Done it most games this year and has no benefit 

Nailed it, I’m of the opinion this is a big part of the reason for our lack of defensive reliance now. Wilf should be the shield, just sit him in the CDM role in front of the CBs, it’s not that hard… 

 

Wilf is the best destroyer in world football. Stats agree (and say he is mediocre at other stuff), so just play to his strengths!
 

I also think this is why Vestergaard has looked so exposed at times, we let players dribble at him. Not only is moving Ndidi bad for Ndidi, it exposes weaknesses in other players. 

Edited 26 November 2021 by FoxesWalk

[Dahnsouff]

37 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

No one seems to be asking what seems to me a quite pertinent question.  If we play a single striker, are we better off starting Daka than Vardy?  Maybe not (yet) but the matter is worth discussion.  

Well they asked it on BT Sport after the match 

Wonder what Danny my-mates-Vardy Simpson said? Well he actually said, yes.

They (Emile was there too) said they could not play together, but both play better when paired with Nacho

Edited 26 November 2021 by Dahnsouff

[Deeg67]

16 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Well they asked it on BT Sport after the match 

Wonder what Danny my-mates-Vardy Simpson said? Well he actually said, yes.

They (Emile was there too) said they could not play together, but both play better when paired with Nacho

I certainly agree with the second part.

 

The thing is, Daka gives you the pressing and holdup play that Vardy no longer does.  If he starts scoring goals as efficiently, the argument to keep starting Vardy ahead of him becomes pretty difficult to make, seems to me.

[Gazza M]

Vardy and Kasper run this club. They do what they like.

[FoxesWalk]

Vardys stats for receiving the ball in the final third and not losing it are massively better than any other attacker in our squad last time I checked a month or two back, no one else is even close to even being in the same league as his numbers. I was surprised how poor the likes of Barnes were in comparison. Vardy may not touch the ball that much, but when he does he very rarely wastes it, he does something positive and seldom gives away possession.  

[volpeazzurro]

On 30/10/2021 at 13:53, Shane said:

Wingbacks are vital to our 3-4-1-2 system.

 

We have 3 good wingbacks in Castagne, Ricardo & JJ. Without those 3 we have no pace, no attacking threat & no width down the flanks - all key elements to making a 3-4-1-2 system function properly. 
 

Our other options are poor. Thomas is much better at LB (especially when partnered with Harvey), Albrighton does an ok job & Bertrand isn’t even worth mentioning. We can’t really shoehorn these guys into the wingback position and expect it to work. 

 

Wingbacks would be vital to that system but sadly we only one, JJ and he's injured. If you really think Ricardo and Castagne are good wingbacks, therein lies the problem, that's why it doesn't work, because they're not. They are good attacking fullbacks and there's a huge difference.