Getting brexit done!

[Alf Bentley]

12 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The power struggle is that if going on these shows makes things worse for the party / government / minister in question, then why would they do it?  The media needs to allow them to actually explain what they are doing, which frankly they are doing a poor job of.

 

I'd accept your second point as valid criticism of some interviewers. I hated Paxman's style for that reason - just bellowing and sneering at interviewees, effectively asking them "why is everything you say rubbish or lies?" I'm not keen on Emma Barnett as she tends to follow that line a bit, too.

 

But there are good interviewers (e.g. Neil, Marr) who can ask difficult questions and challenge evasive answers but allow interviewees to explain themselves. And there are politicians who can come across well in difficult interviews. Lisa Nandy recently performed creditably in a Neil interview. To be non-party political, I've seen Daniel Hannan handle difficult interviews well - and Ken Clarke regularly did so.

 

Senior politicians should be able to get their points across and deal with tricky/critical questions - and it damages public accountability if they don't do so. Why would a politician feel unable or unwilling to do this, unless they knew they or their policies were rubbish - or were cynically putting partisan advantage above accountability? Would we want LCFC to sign a player who didn't want to perform in front of a crowd in case he performed badly and got booed? 

 

There is, of course, a partisan advantage from avoiding scrutiny and accountability. At the extreme end, that's why dictators and totalitarian regimes avoid scrutiny and control the media. I don't like the idea of going even a small way down that path. 

[Mike Oxlong]

17 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The power struggle is that if going on these shows makes things worse for the party / government / minister in question, then why would they do it?  The media needs to allow them to actually explain what they are doing, which frankly they are doing a poor job of.

Well it shouldn’t if the policies are sound. They would be able to answer those seemingly difficult questions and allay any concerns through being open to scrutiny - which is how things should work surely ! 

[Voll Blau]

22 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The power struggle is that if going on these shows makes things worse for the party / government / minister in question, then why would they do it?  The media needs to allow them to actually explain what they are doing, which frankly they are doing a poor job of.

Because elected representatives of the people being open to scrutiny is a vital part of any normal democratic nation. The media should absolutely not allow a government of any colour to "explain what they are doing" without also reserving the right to question it.

 

It's utter cowardice for any party or government to shirk facing such scrutiny because it "makes things worse" for them.

[fuchsntf]

On 02/02/2020 at 10:54, Jon the Hat said:

No, it’s everyone’s Brexit, that’s how it works.  You don’t get to cross your arms and wait for things to go wrong - you have to work with it.  If you want to work in France you find out how you can; If you are committed to European products you pay a little more for them; If your employer suffers you help them change or you find another job.

Exactly the same course & cause when we were in the EU, but some People were so determind to destroy....

Many Politicians & Business men,Selling Off our assets,over 40+ yrs then blaming the EU, and then the electorate not bothered in doing their own homework..

[Leicester_Loyal]

23 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Exactly the same course & cause when we were in the EU, but some People were so determind to destroy....

Many Politicians & Business men,Selling Off our assets,over 40+ yrs then blaming the EU, and then the electorate not bothered in doing their own homework..

Didn't we wait 40+ years for a referendum? Politicians can't blame the EU anymore, it's up to them to take responsibility, or someone else will be elected.

[fuchsntf]

1 minute ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Didn't we wait 40+ years for a referendum? Politicians can't blame the EU anymore, it's up to them to take responsibility, or someone else will be elected.

So..!! We elect someone else,then again & again.....the Cycle goes on & on.....Our Financial & Political thought and attitudes have to change,

before any serious or credible ideology & changes of note take place....

 

The first priority is to rid us of the  "blame"  factor,in all Parts of our lives,and be  less gullable,when its put forward...

In the home,at work,social-circles, and quit & abbonish it in the Political pool of electorate interaction...

Don t tell others what others are doing Wrong,but tell us what "you" are going to try & change, improve & Build on...Bring mandates ,more forward into debate & discussion...!!!

but then again I am only a niave 66 year old,whos worked,travelled,lost,balanced-out,seen and met,the dregs,the fortunate,the average folk,los pobres

the poor of the poor the misery,the rich & famous,played the wheel through all the paths that life bounces along.....

 

I still know no better,  other than,

Never Trust anybody or group that first discriminate, then searches first for excuses & the blame factors....!!

[Leicester_Loyal]

15 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

So..!! We elect someone else,then again & again.....the Cycle goes on & on.....Our Financial & Political thought and attitudes have to change,

before any serious or credible ideology & changes of note take place....

 

The first priority is to rid us of the  "blame"  factor,in all Parts of our lives,and be  less gullable,when its put forward...

In the home,at work,social-circles, and quit & abbonish it in the Political pool of electorate interaction...

Don t tell others what others are doing Wrong,but tell us what "you" are going to try & change, improve & Build on...Bring mandates ,more forward into debate & discussion...!!!

but then again I am only a niave 66 year old,whos worked,travelled,lost,balanced-out,seen and met,the dregs,the fortunate,the average folk,los pobres

the poor of the poor the misery,the rich & famous,played the wheel through all the paths that life bounces along.....

 

I still know no better,  other than,

Never Trust anybody or group that first discriminate, then searches first for excuses & the blame factors....!!

You said that politicians etc. were selling off assets then blaming the EU, but now they won't be able to hide behind that excuse, so we can hold the very same people to account.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

As we saw just the other day it's all Labour's fault that this year a terrorist was released from prison early and went on to stab people well over a decade after they were last in power.  The Tory fanboys will always have a scapegoat and it will never be the incumbent Conservative dog-whistling prime minister and his lackeys.

Well Labour supporters still blamed conservatives or the global crisis’ for things after 13 years in power. So we are all in good company it seems.

[Carl the Llama]

17 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Well Labour supporters still blamed conservatives or the global crisis’ for things after 13 years in power. So we are all in good company it seems.

You've got it backwards:  The argument was always about how any negative impact on Britain of the global crisis was always 'labour's fault' despite everyone who didn't have a blue rosette fetish wasting energy explaining again and again that in the real world the problem started with the big US banks while Gordon Brown's government received a lot of credit globally for laying out how to minimise damage and start the road to recovery.  Sadly the "labour's fault" crowd won enough people over to bring in a Tory government who swiftly went about undoing all the hard work with their holy austerity politics.

Edited 5 February 2020 by Carl the Llama

[oxford blue]

Although the USA may be out largest trading partner by individual country, the EU as a bloc is by far the largest. From a Commons briefing paper "Taken as a bloc, the EU is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2018 the EU accounted for 45% of UK exports and 53% imports and 7 of the UK's 10 largest export markets and sources of imports."

 

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, oxford blue said:

Although the USA may be out largest trading partner by individual country, the EU as a bloc is by far the largest. From a Commons briefing paper "Taken as a bloc, the EU is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2018 the EU accounted for 45% of UK exports and 53% imports and 7 of the UK's 10 largest export markets and sources of imports."

 

But if we pretend they aren't a bloc then we can make a point that sounds more sensible than it really is.

[Strokes]

26 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

You've got it backwards:  The argument was always about how any negative impact on Britain of the global crisis was always 'labour's fault' despite everyone who didn't have a blue rosette fetish wasting energy explaining again and again that in the real world the problem started with the big US banks while Gordon Brown's government received a lot of credit globally for laying out how to minimise damage and start the road to recovery.  Sadly the "labour's fault" crowd won enough people over to bring in a Tory government who swiftly went about undoing all the hard work with their holy austerity politics.

Like I said, 13 in years in power but blameless. See it can happen 👍🏻

[Strokes]

24 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

But if we pretend they aren't a bloc then we can make a point that sounds more sensible than it really is.

It was an example that despite being on WTO terms, we are still trading with them more than any of the countries within this bloc.

You can pretend that they aren’t countries if you wish.

[Legend_in_blue]

No worries.  Just get saving for your 35k Corsa-e over the next 15 years and all our problems will be solved.

[fuchsntf]

19 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

You said that politicians etc. were selling off assets then blaming the EU, but now they won't be able to hide behind that excuse, so we can hold the very same people to account.

They also use to was that,before we moved into the EU.....

 

Arrh,to be so young...Live was easy,ideas so black n white...If Not mom was always there to give a cuddle,& Dad warning us about having a Wake up call.

My Problem was I Never used an alarm clock,so that Call Never came...

 

[twoleftfeet]

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-black-box-of-brexit-identification-with-englishness-is-the-best-clue/

Just found this article which made interesting reading re English national identity and Brexit.

[Kopfkino]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/08/tories-eye-mansion-tax-raid-pensions2/

 

I wonder what Ed Miliband will make of now being 'hard right'. Cos that is what we were told this government was going to be wasn't it? 

 

Really do hope for a modern, electable Labour next time round, the Conservatives are revolting and need time in opposition to bin this Edism off. 

 

I mean wtf happened to Sajid Javid? Weirdo that could recite Ayn Rand is now a weirdo that can recite Ayn Rand and Labour's 2015 manifesto, that should be mutually exclusive. 

Edited 8 February 2020 by Kopfkino

[oxford blue]

For Leicestershire important in getting brexit done a national law is enshrined to replace the PDO/PDI status that Stilton and Melton Mowbray pork pies currently have .

[l444ry]

Project Fear they said when being warned by people that argued with facts.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-border-checks-trade-michael-gove-eu-a9328211.html?fbclid=IwAR0s2RFX_7jRD97Gz3UY27dpslz0tEwUjlYya_jKHQ9vTi3V7TRPIr6GuwQ

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, l444ry said:

Project Fear they said when being warned by people that argued with facts.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-border-checks-trade-michael-gove-eu-a9328211.html?fbclid=IwAR0s2RFX_7jRD97Gz3UY27dpslz0tEwUjlYya_jKHQ9vTi3V7TRPIr6GuwQ

Sadly I’d expect a lot of firms exporting to the EU to struggle and possibly go bust with the extra workload and expense. Perhaps they’ll be replaced by others trading elsewhere in Boris’ brave new world of Brexit, perhaps not.

 

Also, if any IT project is forecast to take 5 years, it must be absolutely huge. There will be dangers of a significant overrun and massive expense, presumably to businesses and taxpayers.

 

[The Syrup]

Colin the Leicester fan trending on twitter for this...

 

[Voll Blau]

3 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

Colin the Leicester fan trending on twitter for this...

 

Colin the parody account...

[The Syrup]

10 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Colin the parody account...

Ha ha, fair enough. He's done a good job there. Must be Sean From Enderby's alter-ego

Edited 14 February 2020 by The Syrup

[Voll Blau]

55 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

Ha ha, fair enough. He's done a good job there. Must be Sean From Enderby's alter-ego

Absolutely mental how many people have fallen for it. That's Twitter for you though - people more interested in point-scoring for whichever side they happen to be on than fact-checking...

Edited 14 February 2020 by Voll Blau

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Incredible the amount of people that have bitten at that tweet.