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Strokes

Getting brexit done!

By Strokes, in General Chat

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Ecdysiast said:

People keen to save money with Brexit..not only is it costing a great deal more than we would have saved...we've now just thrown around 100 years worth of brexit costs at the pandemic.

So makes no difference now anyway.

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Milo

Milo

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It will be interesting to see what state the EU as an administrative entity is in after this is all over. 
 

I might be wrong, but it looks like most countries have pretty much taken back control of their borders and are implementing laws without Brussels bureaucracy or intervention. 

The majority of member states will be on their knees financially - do the EU have a big enough pot of money to assist Italy, Spain, et al? Or will there be a recalibration of who pays what in and who takes what out? 

Could be the end of the EU, or could be something that unites. 


 

 

 

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Paninistickers

Paninistickers

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Milo said:

It will be interesting to see what state the EU as an administrative entity is in after this is all over. 
 

I might be wrong, but it looks like most countries have pretty much taken back control of their borders and are implementing laws without Brussels bureaucracy or intervention. 

The majority of member states will be on their knees financially - do the EU have a big enough pot of money to assist Italy, Spain, et al? Or will there be a recalibration of who pays what in and who takes what out? 

Could be the end of the EU, or could be something that unites. 


 

 

 

Really good point. 

 

Speaking as a fervent pro European, even I admit the EU's silence has been deafening.

 

Leaving Italy to rot. Extraordinary. 

 

There is some.major social and political upheaval to come after this. 

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Ecdysiast

Ecdysiast

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Presumably the 15% who think the economy will improve are those who spent Friday evening in the pub ......... this is a perfect illustration of how thick at least 15% of the public are .......

Probably some of the same shameful, moronic, inebriated, souless GB individuals that were dancing and chanting all over the Costa del Sol last weekend .."we've all got the virus na na na na, we've all got the virus etc..."

May they all collect the Darwin Award asap.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

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Posted

If these figures are correct a second referendum is going to be unavoidable.

 

Well done as well for staying on Jeremy :rolleyes: To think some people thought the damage you had caused ended on election night.

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

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10 minutes ago, MattP said:

If these figures are correct a second referendum is going to be unavoidable.

 

Well done as well for staying on Jeremy :rolleyes: To think some people thought the damage you had caused ended on election night.


Corbyn is a tw@t for staying on but there’s one reason for the shift in Scots are looking to leave and it’s not whos in charge of Labour. Keir Hardie could rise from the grave and lead the Labour Party and it wouldn’t stop the push for a second ref. 
 

I’m of the opinion we should get on with Brexit now, it’s been settled, but let’s not pretend that the breaking of the Union will be down to anything else.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Corbyn is a tw@t for staying on but there’s one reason for the shift in Scots are looking to leave and it’s not whos in charge of Labour. Keir Hardie could rise from the grave and lead the Labour Party and it wouldn’t stop the push for a second ref. 
 

I’m of the opinion we should get on with Brexit now, it’s been settled, but let’s not pretend that the breaking of the Union will be down to anything else.

Sorry but that's just complete nonsense, you can certainly argue it's the tipping point of course but a referendum on Scottish independence before the word "Brexit" even existed delivered 45% wanting to leave - and they were prepared to do that when common wisdom said staying in the union was the only way to preserve EU membership. 

 

Support for independence ran at about 15% before devolution, that allowed the SNP to build a government and then blame anything that went wrong on the neighbours over the border.

 

I'm getting a bit tired of English pro-European types giving the SNP a get out clause here, they wanted to drag Scotland out the EU just six years ago. They don't care a jot for the project, the only desire they have is an independent country by any means.

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Strokes

Strokes

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Posted
25 minutes ago, MattP said:

Sorry but that's just complete nonsense, you can certainly argue it's the tipping point of course but a referendum on Scottish independence before the word "Brexit" even existed delivered 45% wanting to leave - and they were prepared to do that when common wisdom said staying in the union was the only way to preserve EU membership. 

 

Support for independence ran at about 15% before devolution, that allowed the SNP to build a government and then blame anything that went wrong on the neighbours over the border.

 

I'm getting a bit tired of English pro-European types giving the SNP a get out clause here, they wanted to drag Scotland out the EU just six years ago. They don't care a jot for the project, the only desire they have is an independent country by any means.

You won’t get heard on this, I’ve been beating this drum for a while and it gets largely ignored.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

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Just now, Strokes said:

You won’t get heard on this, I’ve been beating this drum for a while and it gets largely ignored.

The amount of history being rewritten or ignored due to Brexit is astonishing.

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

Posted
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22 minutes ago, MattP said:

Sorry but that's just complete nonsense, you can certainly argue it's the tipping point of course but a referendum on Scottish independence before the word "Brexit" even existed delivered 45% wanting to leave - and they were prepared to do that when common wisdom said staying in the union was the only way to preserve EU membership. 

 

Support for independence ran at about 15% before devolution, that allowed the SNP to build a government and then blame anything that went wrong on the neighbours over the border.

 

I'm getting a bit tired of English pro-European types giving the SNP a get out clause here, they wanted to drag Scotland out the EU just six years ago. They don't care a jot for the project, the only desire they have is an independent country by any means.


Apologies, let me rephrase that. 
 

Brexit is the tipping point for a second referendum and ultimately leaving the Union. 
 

The SNP will do anything to get out of the UK. I’m not disputing that. I don’t like Sturgeon or the SNP because they’re unnecessarily divisive in the same way I see a portion of Brexiteers are. Antagonistic for antagonism’s sake. 
 

But the UK government at the time told them the only way they’d stay in the EU is by staying in the UK. The same Party is now taking them out of the EU six years later. If Brexit hadn’t happened there would be no window of opportunity for the SNP to launch another independence campaign. I don’t think that’s really up for debate.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
Just now, Finnaldo said:

Apologies, let me rephrase that. 
 

Brexit is the tipping point for a second referendum and ultimately leaving the Union. 
 

The SNP will do anything to get out of the UK. I’m not disputing that. I don’t like Sturgeon or the SNP because they’re unnecessarily divisive in the same way I see a portion of Brexiteers are. Antagonistic for antagonism’s sake. 
 

But the UK government at the time told them the only way they’d stay in the EU is by staying in the UK. The same Party is now taking them out of the EU six years later. If Brexit hadn’t happened there would be no window of opportunity for the SNP to launch another independence campaign. I don’t think that’s really up for debate.

They would find something. Of course they would, it's the ideological goal of the party.

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Strokes

Strokes

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2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:


Apologies, let me rephrase that. 
 

Brexit is the tipping point for a second referendum and ultimately leaving the Union. 
 

The SNP will do anything to get out of the UK. I’m not disputing that. I don’t like Sturgeon or the SNP because they’re unnecessarily divisive in the same way I see a portion of Brexiteers are. Antagonistic for antagonism’s sake. 
 

But the UK government at the time told them the only way they’d stay in the EU is by staying in the UK. The same Party is now taking them out of the EU six years later. If Brexit hadn’t happened there would be no window of opportunity for the SNP to launch another independence campaign. I don’t think that’s really up for debate.

Why wouldn’t there be another window of opportunity? I thought second referendums were just more democracy?


Given we are just in the midst of global epidemic that is likely to cause a worldwide economic depression, I do think the window may just be ajar in any case. 
If Scotland wants to take its own path, who are we to stop them?

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

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1 minute ago, MattP said:

They would find something. Of course they would, it's the ideological goal of the party.

 

Just now, Strokes said:

Why wouldn’t there be another window of opportunity? I thought second referendums were just more democracy?

 

They’d certainly try to find a mandate for a second referendum regardless. I don’t doubt that. But telling them this is their only way to stay within the EU and taking them out alongside us a year later is very easy for them to paint as a ‘stab in the back’. I doubt anything else would have been anywhere near as stirring and it would have taken years to rebuild any kind of mandate.

 

In terms of a second referendum, I haven’t backed either. If Labour had won the election there would have been a democratic mandate for one. They didn’t, so there wasn’t. SNP did win the majority of Scottish seats, so maybe they have a mandate? I preferred they didn’t, but clearly Brexit has massively influenced the massive switch of support to the SNP.

 

7 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Given we are just in the midst of global epidemic that is likely to cause a worldwide economic depression, I do think the window may just be ajar in any case. 
If Scotland wants to take its own path, who are we to stop them?

Perhaps, all depends where we come out at the end of it all really. It’s certainly harder to frame a global pandemic on being part of the UK than leaving the EU is. Maybe the management of it but even that’s not as clear cut, in my opinion.

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Strokes

Strokes

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2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

 

They’d certainly try to find a mandate for a second referendum regardless. I don’t doubt that. But telling them this is their only way to stay within the EU and taking them out alongside us a year later is very easy for them to paint as a ‘stab in the back’. I doubt anything else would have been anywhere near as stirring and it would have taken years to rebuild any kind of mandate.

 

In terms of a second referendum, I haven’t backed either. If Labour had won the election there would have been a democratic mandate for one. They didn’t, so there wasn’t. SNP did win the majority of Scottish seats, so maybe they have a mandate? I preferred they didn’t, but clearly Brexit has massively influenced the massive switch of support to the SNP.

 

Perhaps, all depends where we come out at the end of it all really. It’s certainly harder to frame a global pandemic on being part of the UK than leaving the EU is. Maybe the management of it but even that’s not as clear cut, in my opinion.

You don’t have to frame it, in the current climate just paint a picture of positivity. 
If you’ve got fùck all, you have fùck all to lose.

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Kopfkino

Kopfkino

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It's been pretty inevitable for a while that 2021 should be a piece of piss for the SNP and there's no legitimate reason to deny them another referendum anyway, just as there was no legitimate reason to deny people a referendum on Maastrict and Lisbon. 

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blabyboy

blabyboy

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Posted
On 22/03/2020 at 21:36, Paninistickers said:

Really good point. 

 

Speaking as a fervent pro European, even I admit the EU's silence has been deafening.

 

Leaving Italy to rot. Extraordinary. 

 

There is some.major social and political upheaval to come after this. 

A timely piece from The Gruniad which surprised me. The last paragraph really summed it up for me 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/29/the-coronavirus-crisis-has-brought-the-eus-failings-into-sharp-relief

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